One question/problem about ariel

POSTED BY: Docebo
UPDATED: Monday, March 1, 2004 04:48
VIEWED: 11667
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AVALON

Monday, December 2, 2002 3:16 AM

Delvo and Radegund -- excellent points!

CUDA

Monday, February 23, 2004 4:51 AM

This may be a stupid question, but how were they planning on getting Simon and River OUT of the hospital. They smuggled them in, were they just going to walk out?

LINDLEY

Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:15 AM

Quote:

Actually, no -- the Bluehand Agents popped up at the end of The Train Job, not the end of Bushwhacked. So they wouldn't have known about Serenity, because nothing in the train heist provided evidence directly showing that a Firefly-class vessel was used.

Unless someone.......looked out the window?

AJ

Tuesday, February 24, 2004 9:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lindley:
Quote:

Actually, no -- the Bluehand Agents popped up at the end of The Train Job, not the end of Bushwhacked. So they wouldn't have known about Serenity, because nothing in the train heist provided evidence directly showing that a Firefly-class vessel was used.

Unless someone.......looked out the window?

Assuming there were windows in the roof.

I could be wrong here, but I don't recall Serenity ever dropping low enough to be alongside the train.

WHOODAHN

Tuesday, February 24, 2004 2:29 PM

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This definetly seems to sum it up pretty good for me. I don't think the bluehands knew anything about the fake med vehicle or anything else. If they had they would have made sure the fakes never had a chance to get away.

What ever happened to the fake med ship?
I imagine they could sell it someplace off-world without any questions asked.

RIZZ

Tuesday, February 24, 2004 3:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Straycat:
Quote:

Actually, no -- the Bluehand Agents popped up at the end of The Train Job, not the end of Bushwhacked. So they wouldn't have known about Serenity, because nothing in the train heist provided evidence directly showing that a Firefly-class vessel was used.

They did indeed, and all they said was that they were looking for a girl (and showed a pic of River)

However - in Bushwacked, the crew of the Alliance cruiser pulled up the following when they spotted Serenity -

Quote:

"An alert issued on an unidentified vessel, Firefly flass, rumoured to be carrying two fugitives, brother and sister"

Which is why they go searching Serenity for Simon and River. So... they did know to look for a Firefly. However - I guess the chances that the pair were *still* on a Firefly would be slightly less, although the presence of a Firefly in port might suggest to them that it was likely.

I have my own question about the blue-handed guys... namely - if recapturing River is *so* important, why the did they dally to kill people while she escaped? When they disposed of the first bunch they didn't know she was gone, but they still paused to kill someone once they did know. How can it be so important to silence people who've heard her talk that they're prepared to risk her escaping to do so? (Especially someone who was incapacitated like that - they could easily have gone back for him)

I truly hope we get to find out what's going on with these guys.... and that the explanation is worth the wait.

Straycat,

I don't think they just killed the people because they spoke to River. I suspect they use the blue device to extract all the memories from the victims to ensure their secret is still safe. An unfortunate side effect seems to be death in a horribly bloody manner.

"It's about believing in something, and letting that belief be real enough to change your life"

Oh and of course,

"That's why I never kiss em on the Mouth"

RANGER

Tuesday, February 24, 2004 3:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Docebo:
While I was rewatching Ariel last night it occured to me that since the blue hands already knew that river and simon were on a firefly class ship that when serenity took off minutes after simon, river, and jayne escaped that the blue hands would now know exactly which firefly they were on. Or even if not exactly they can probably narrow it down a lot. Maybe this was intended, or maybe i am just bieng dumb. (btw that is a high-larious emoticon)

-Docebo

Ok, remember that (spoiler alert for Objects in Space)

Select to view spoiler:

this is exactly how Early tracked river down

so it is an understandable question. My guess is that the Blue Hands are not in so much of a hurry to get River. It is a small 'verse and there is pleanty of time. She will resurface soon enough, and you can always count on human greed to help find her. She is important to them, but not worth exposing themselves to public scrutiny.

Quote:
I have my own question about the blue-handed guys... namely - if recapturing River is *so* important, why the did they dally to kill people while she escaped? When they disposed of the first bunch they didn't know she was gone, but they still paused to kill someone once they did know. How can it be so important to silence people who've heard her talk that they're prepared to risk her escaping to do so? (Especially someone who was incapacitated like that - they could easily have gone back for him)

I kind of get the impression they are like the Men in Black, except they don't have "flashy thingies" they have brain busters. It seems much more important to them to destroy any evidence of Rivers existance in the public sphere than actually catching her.

Just my thoughts

Traveller, if you go to Sparta, tell them you have seen us lying here as the Law commands.

AURANI

Wednesday, February 25, 2004 2:41 AM

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However, I think they might end up doing a search on Jayne now. And if Jayne can be tagged to Serenity, they might realize their mistake.

As for tracking Jayne how much info do they have on him being as they killed all the witnesses?

That assumes that the Blue Hands know that Jayne is connected to River and Simon.
I think it's possible that they don't. I doubt that the Alliance officer kept records of his contacts with Jayne, since he was planning to double-cross him and keep the reward money for himself. He wouldn't want there to be any records floating around that might be used to cheat him out of the reward money. (After all, if they can prove that he didn't "earn" the money, then they don't have to pay it out to anyone.)
We know that Jayne was carrying a fake ID (the one he used to get into the hospital). Unless he was also carrying his real ID in, it's very likely that the name entered into the computer during "prisoner processing" was the phony name from the hospital ID. That leaves the Blue Hands with have no real information as to the identity of the man who helped River and Simon escape.

LJOSALF

Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:18 PM

I've been considering whether Jayne's identity/existence was "made" on Arial in association with the Tams. From his actions, upto and after the incident it is pretty clear that *Jayne* doesn't consider himself in danger or doesn't care, a la his sarcastic "I've never been in trouble with the law before...". Jayne could be wrong, though.

Consider that Jayne did something that induced six men, the best of whom was armed with the finest weapon made--surely an expensive item--to try to kill him.
A) spontaneously 6 men unbeknownst to each other decided to kill Jayne at roughly the same time and place.
B) a posse got to together to hunt Jayne down and kill him.
C) someone hired 6 men to hunt Jayne down and kill him.
Let us concede that A) is unlikely and move to B). B) implies a mix of professionals and amateurs if this occurred on one of the border planets or further out--the likely location. Would your standard sheriff/lawman own Vera? I think not: so, Vera would, in this scenario, likely have belonged to a talented and relatively wealthy amateur. Even if Jayne kills the entire posse, someone back in town/on the ranch, etc. (pick your settlement) will recall that Jayne is wanted (dead or alive) for something pretty heinous as well as the killing of 6 men and will have reported this. Did the incident occur during or before the war? If yes, has the information survived the war and been integrated into the Federation databases? (Jayne may not be troubled with the possibility of this coming back to haunt him if the info was lost.) If the incident occurred post-war, then the information would be more likely to still be extant and the same reasons that Mal gave Simon as to why staying on Serenity was a good idea for the fugitive Tams applies equally to Jayne.
C) implies a "private" person or group wants Jayne dead. Private persons or groups that can afford to hire killers/bounty hunters by the half dozen tend to have a lot of money and/or resources. So, we have 1) wealthy individual, 2) corporation (Blue Sun?), 3) organized crime, 4) military, and 5) secret government organization a la Men in Black or The Initiative (the part of The Initiative in Firefly is being played tonight by the Hands of Blue). 1) wealthy individual--not yet seen or implied in the stories so far; so a complete cypher. 2) and 5) could almost be grouped together and would be too neat except that the characters have not put 2 and 2 together as to what triggers some of River's whacked out behavior--possible but is it likely as a story arc? 3) organized crime--could explain why Jayne doesn't seem to be unduly worried about dealing with the feds in order to get the reward. Alright, then, was Jayne an enforcer a la Crow? Does he owe some loan shark a lot of money--explaining his overriding focus on getting paid? He seems very intimidated by Niska's demonstration of the truth behind his reputation and is very anxious not to cross him. Possible, possible. 4) the military--Jayne says he didn't fight in the war but he does seem to be highly trained in several military-based skills. Is he a deserter? (there would be records--did they survive the war and are they integrated into the Federation databases?)

I think that being hard to find by staying on the move aboard Serenity is an unexpressed reason for much of Jayne's behavior. Note that he will argue with the rest of the crew but won't cross Mal and makes efforts to placate/mollify him when they do disagree. Jayne definitely does not want to be left planetside without a lot of money in his pocket.

I also think that it would be perfectly hilarious if the next wanted poster issued for Simon and River included Jayne as a known associate. Imagine his chagrin!

Just a few thoughts.

Ljosalf

The voyage of discovery is not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes.
Marcel Proust (1871 - 1922)

VETERAN

Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:41 PM

Quote:
ljosalf wrote:
Sunday, February 29, 2004 08:18
I've been considering whether Jayne's identity/existence was "made" on Arial in association with the Tams. From his actions, upto and after the incident it is pretty clear that *Jayne* doesn't consider himself in danger or doesn't care, a la his sarcastic "I've never been in trouble with the law before...". Jayne could be wrong, though.

He could be lying. It's pretty obvious that Jayne has been making a precarious living as a cutthroat for some time now. In Our Mrs. Reynolds he says, "Once they sent six men after me..." To me that makes it sound there were other times when people were sent after him, and in Jaynestown he had run with Stitch for 6 months before the "Hero" incident occurred and that was several years back, maybe during or just after the war.

Quote:
NIXXIGNATIUS

However, I think they might end up doing a search on Jayne now. And if Jayne can be tagged to Serenity, they might realize their mistake.

The bluehands people may not know how the Feds captured River and Simon. They might have just been contacted with a simple message, "We are holding your fugitives." Remember when the Officer doublecrossed Jayne he said, "You mean my reward."

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