How to win an argument with Liberals-Progressives-Socialists-etc...
POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Thursday, June 16, 2011 09:23
VIEWED: 32999
PAGE 27 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by Terran57:
[B
For Hardware:
As to which of those programs we need? Probably most as all are important to somebody, maybe just not you. But who am I to say that my needs and wants makes yours invalid.
Exactly. Your "Program vital to the nation's security and commerce" is my "Pork Barrel Gotcha!", and vice versa.
Any Congressman with real courage would first cut wasteful programs in HIS OWN district, instead of earmarking them so they'll sneak thru quietly. Unfortunately, of course, he'd also never get re-elected.
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Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Unfortunately, of course, he'd also never get re-elected.
That's puttin it mildly, I believe "run out of town on a rail" was closer to what happened during the city council fiasco, in my case.
And yet the crazy bastards want me on the ann arbor administrative staff as an advisor, *because* of that very ruthlessness, apparently as a counter to the DDA's pork-barrel antics....
Which ain't gonna happen cause
A- that disqualifies anyone already on the staff from running for public office.
(which I think is primarily to remove that threat)
B- you start takin their money, you wind up takin their orders.
I'd rather be waiting in the wings as a threat, however minor, to discourage their abuses - besides, I hate ann arbor and their fuckin attitude anyway.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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Frem,
Sandcastles, if I have the idea right, need to have this time-expired nature built in to the power structure in a way that it won't disappear with some neat little legislative trick.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.
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Everyone,
I happened across this article, and it really pulled me up short. Its a ranking of the states by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, on the personal and economic freedoms held within.
Do think this study holds water?
http://mercatus.org/freedom-50-states-2011
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Well, that'd depend on how you define "freedom", really - which to some is a nebulous or mutable concept, and to others is ironclad, and over exactly WHAT is often as individual as people.
For example;
property rights vs smoking bans.
minimum wage vs freedom of commerce.
And so on and so forth - people come down on different sides, often enough with selfish motives, but still its all about trying to strike a balance everyone can live with, if not necessarily like, so that we can live in the same vicinity without being at each others throats...
Something NEITHER primary political party seems to care about any more, which is as ever, a prelude to violence, but most folk don't know enough history these days to see the disaster looming.
Anyhows, this is one of the areas where there's always gonna be debate, which *I* feel furthers the cause of freedom as a whole, so long as there *IS* debate, instead of a government gun stuck in my face (taxation, for example, often used to fund things *I* find despicable) followed by orders... which is where we seem to be going under the lash of modern politics.
(And they're BOTH guilty, you partisan fucks, so save your bile and spittle!)
My own methods for determination are reference to the US Constitution, flawed that it is, and the notion of doing the least possible harm - with those in mind it makes things simple, leastways from my end of the viewpoint.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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I thought the methodology was kind of weak and subjective.
I'll grant that there's a fair amount of govt. interference in NY, and taxes are high, but the criteria used seemed even bogus at times.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.
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FremDFirma, dreamtrove:
I agree that the methodology seemed a bit strange. Then I started thinking about it in a larger context.
For example, smoking. Most people know that smoking is bad for you. Its addictive, unhealthy, and really has no positives going for it.
So what does that have to do with the amount of freedom you have?
Well, its a personal choice. Has been for many, many years. You can smoke, do harm to yourself, and thats it. Its not an intoxicant, where if you drive while smoking it impairs your ability.
But it becomes an issue of freedom when the government starts deciding where and when you can imbibe nicotine.
The freedom aspect became compromised when there was a law stating that you cannot allow your customers to imbibe in your business.
Now, I hear, someplaces are trying to make it illegal to smoke inside your own home, or on the public street.
Laws like these, are usually put in effect in places like NY/NJ or California.
I don't believe people should smoke, but I don't believe its my right to tell them they can't.
I CERTAINLY do NOT believe that I, or the government, have any right to tell another person what they can do in their own home, especially since it is not harming another person.
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I think I went on a bit of a rant here. :(
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Nah, it's fine. I think everyone agreed with you.
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Skydive: the purpose of banning public smoking is not to keep YOU from smoking, if that is your choice. It is to keep you from forcing ME to smoke, whether I want to or not.
As the asthmatic offspring of former heavy smokers, I can tell you I truly appreciate the ban on public smoking. I can't stand the stench, it makes me wheeze, and it shortens my life. As they say: The right to swing your fist ... or, in this case, light up... ends at my nose.
The reign of tobacco terror is dead. Long live my freedom.
Can't believe I have to repeat the point about balancing your freedoms against mine. Surely it's been discussed to death already.
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