The Great Jayne Debate!
POSTED BY: kef
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 4, 2002 17:05
VIEWED: 37090
PAGE 13 of 14
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Originally posted by kef:Quote:
Originally posted by esme:
I think Jayne made contact with the alliance after River stabbed him (for fashion? "you'd look better in red" I think it was?)
Someone pointed out somewhere that River was actually slashing the Blue Sun logo on Jayne's shirt. Apparently it's in the actual script. It's the same reason she tore the labels off the cans in Shindig. (is that the right episode?)
Maybe River was saying that the Blue Sun logo looked better in red- bloodstained- i.e. they have blood on their hands. Think about it.
Or, perchance, she "read" Jayne cleaning his knife and thinking nasty thoughts about Simon, picked up a knife of her own from the kitchen, and did to Jayne what Jayne had been wishfully thinking he could do to Simon... down to the commentary in his mind about Simon looking better in red.
There's no proof, mind you, but that's the way I read the situation.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Delvo:
Believing the actor who played Jayne saying that what was shown didn't really happen is like believing Harrison Ford if he were to say that Han Solo didn't really shoot the bounty hunter under the table at Mos Eisley, or believing Sean connery if he were to say that James Bond never actually ordered a shaken-not-stirred drink. He just plain DID and that's all there is to it!
(And it's even worse when the creator of the show in question seems to have a reputation for messing with people's minds just because he thinks it's funny...)
I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength here -- from the way I read Baldwin's comment, Jayne certainly DID mean to betray the Tams, did not unbetray them in the holoimaging center, and only turned on the Feds after it became clear that he wasn't getting his reward and was going to be taken into custody along with the Tams.
I'm not sure where youre response is coming from -- you seem to be suggesting that Baldwin's comment means that Jayne unbetrayed them. Read it again.
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I think we need to look at Mal’s part in this – Why oh why put Jayne in that position – We already know he doesn’t trust Jayne – why not keep Jayne with him where he can keep his eye on him and send Zoe with the Tams. Jayne is like a really big dog whose first owner beat him and now Mal has to teach him to trust again.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurukami:
I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength here -- from the way I read Baldwin's comment, Jayne certainly DID mean to betray the Tams, did not unbetray them in the holoimaging center, and only turned on the Feds after it became clear that he wasn't getting his reward and was going to be taken into custody along with the Tams.
I'm not sure where youre response is coming from -- you seem to be suggesting that Baldwin's comment means that Jayne unbetrayed them. Read it again.
No kidding. Adam said unequivocably that Jayne did NOT un-bretray them. And his helping the Tams escape the Feds was his way of double-crossing the cop who betrayed him.
Ah, well - people will read what they want into it.
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Now this is getting ridiculous. They were trapped, and Jayne was rushing them out. You only try to get someone out of a trap if you don't want them caught; if you DO want them caught, you leave them in the trap, sit back, and watch it happen.
That's not reading anything into anything, and it's not finding excuses for what I want. It's just WHAT WAS SHOWN. Those who try to make a case CONTRARY to that are the ones that have to ignore this very basic simple fact about what was shown and infuse things that weren't directly shown.
And when I say that what's shown takes precedence over what's said about it by anyone involved, how in the world can that mean the opposite of what I just said?
I've had enough of this from you people.
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Jayne was rushing the Tams *into* the trap waiting for them at the backdoor, not rushing them out of a trap.
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Delvo,
I aprreciate your opinions. But I think you are being rude. It's perfectly acceptable for you to feel that Jayne is a noble creature who backed out of a devious plot to save the poor damaged girl. You're entitled to that opinion. You're entitled to state that opinion and your evidence to back it up. But to get snippy with the entire board just because not everyone agrees with you or changed their opinion because of what you said... it's just uncalled for. This is uncalled for:
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I've had enough of this from you people.
We've all been respectful of your opinion, whether we agreed with it or not. I think at this point, we have to just agree to disagree about this. But there is no need to get rude.
______________
Two by Two... Hands of Blue
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Quote:
Originally posted by Delvo:
Changing the plans means changing the plans!
But Delvo -- how do we know Jayne ever changed his own plans?
Sure, he told Simon that there was a change in plans for the heist, and that they now had to leave early. But why couldn't this have been Jayne's plan with the Alliance guy all along? Rush the Tams out of there and into the hands of the Alliance, so that by the time anyone was the wiser it'd be too late...
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Sorry Delvo... but ya lost another supporter. :) Whedon may delight in staying quiet, misleading people, throwing out red herrings, and countering people's expectations, but I've yet to see him outright LIE to his fans about plot points. I was convinced Jayne rushed em out early to avoid the Feds, but if Whedon says (through Adam Baldwin) that Jayne intended to hand them in every second until he found out he had no reward coming, I believe him.
I STILL don't think any clear reason was presented in the episode as to why they rushed out early, but then, I've only seen it once when it originally aired, perhaps I missed something. I still don't buy the "he needed the extra time to get the money and get back to Serenity smoothly" line, but other possibilities DO exist. I'm kinda leaning towards thinking Jayne was starting to feel guilty, so he wanted to get it over with as quickly as possible, before learning about any more horrors River had to endure, but that's just speculation.
Oh well... I will look forward to dissecting "War Stories" this weekend.. hehehe. :)
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What I find the most amusing is that no one noticed that when Jayne brought Simon and River into that foyer where they were captured by the alliance hospital security guards that Jayne closed the door behind Simon and River...why did he close the door? so they couldn't get away....why didn't he want them to get away? Because he wanted to get his reward money (and the added bonus of getting rid of Simon, who he hates, and getting rid of River, who slashed him with a knife and is a huge risk to his security and his fellow crew members). Now if Jayne is un-betraying Simon and River why would he close the door to block their exit....simply he wouldn't. Meaning he never un-betrayed them. This is just one of the many bits of proof that the un-betrayal never happened.
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