Shepherd's Tale discussion (for them that's read it only)

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:31
VIEWED: 34214
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LOIRE

Sunday, March 13, 2011 12:38 AM

Quote:
"I don't accept that Zoe is pregnant because it's *just* in a comic" (a comic approved by Joss Whedon himself)

When was this now? Do I need to re-read those left and better days?

L

DMI

Sunday, March 13, 2011 12:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Loire:
Quote:
"I don't accept that Zoe is pregnant because it's *just* in a comic" (a comic approved by Joss Whedon himself)

When was this now? Do I need to re-read those left and better days?

L

Sucks that got leaked to you. The comic you need to read is "Float Out."

-----------------------------
I pray for one last landing,
on the globe that gave me birth.
Let me rest my eyes on the fleecy skies
and the cool, green hills of Earth.

INVADERCHAT

Sunday, March 13, 2011 12:46 AM

GREAT BIG SPOILER!

But it's in Serenity: Float Out.

LOIRE

Sunday, March 13, 2011 12:56 AM

Ah, I see. Sucks, but thats life, eh?
I figured float out was just Wash's buds talkin 'bout him after his death.
Been lookin to get a hold of that for a long while now.. Far as I know it outta print.
L

FERREX

Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:12 AM

Must find Float Out...

I enjoyed The Shepherd's Tale because it was part of the big bad 'verse. I truly enjoy what Joss created.
That being said, I did not enjoy The Shepherd's Tale because it was part of the big bad 'verse.
It was pointed out that the comic didn't match the canon of the series as shown in the "Safe" episode. The evidence shown in that episode shows Book as someone in extremely good standing with the Alliance. I don't think there's any argument on this.
Now, I could be wrong, but a government (especially its military) is not going to afford any kind of protection, or assitance, to someone who they will summarily jettison from a spaceship for a debacle like the one depicted in The Shepherd's Tale. They will certainly not treat him like an honored guest.
The events depicted in "Safe" and in the comic just don't jive as they are presented. Yes, it's possible that there is another explanation, but we are not offered that. We can suppose all we like, but we have no evidence of a forged Ident card (in Safe) or a cover up, or any other type of explanation. It's just disjointed.
Personally, I feel that Book deserved better than what he was given in this comic/graphic novel. He was such an epic character in the TV show and was treated like so much in the BDM, the comic book treatment of him was just The comic simply failed.
The treatment of Mal in the comic was laughable as well, I thought, but I won't get into that.

GWEK

Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DMI:
Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
Don't get me wrong, I get the point. Just didn't think it was demonstrated in a particularly compelling way.

Different strokes.

Finally read it. I have to say, every time I get to return to the Firefly universe (short stories, comics, whatever) it is an almost spiritual experience. Maybe because I was only 16 when the show first aired and when it disappeared, I didn't find the browncoats right away and just felt like I'd lost something great with zero explanation.

That said, I have to agree with GWEK. Good backstory but poor execution. Zack claims to have written this based on an outline from Joss, but it seems to be that he took that outline, turned it in reverse and said, "done." It was great to finally learn what happened with Book and it had all the unexpected turns that I've come to expect from Joss, but I can't help but think that this would have been executed better as an episode of the show where we see the flashbacks Lost style: integrated into a current conflict and shown to the audience without Book sitting down for story time with the crew. If you're not familiar with Lost, think Out of Gas.

-----------------------------
I pray for one last landing,
on the globe that gave me birth.
Let me rest my eyes on the fleecy skies
and the cool, green hills of Earth.

Funny you should mention LOST. When working on our virtual continuation of FIREFLY (see my signature if you're interested), pretty early on we started discussing the idea of an episode revealing Book's background. Pretty quickly, we realized the structure that the episode should have, and started calling it "Shepherd Book's LOST episode."

After something like two years of discussion and analysis (during which we created over two dozen other episodes), we DID eventually produce TESTAMENT, which has a very different background for book, and is definitely structured like an episode of LOST (with the "current" scenes taking place during the Alliance's assault on Haven).

if you're at all curious, check it out! It's episode 20 of Season Two.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

GWEK

Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
He was playing both sides, and we don't know his true allegiance. What his motivations were we don't know. He may not have even had motivations, and was mostly scrabbling to stay above water the whole time. When confronted by the consequences of his own actions, which later, when being chewed out by his Alliance superior, he could not justify what he had done.

I don't know that it's that we don't know his true allegiance so much as he didn't have any true allegiance. He didn't BELIEVE in anything. He had so many opportunities, so many options, but until the bowl of soup, he didn't BELIEVE. And, in part, that's why his parting words to Mal are what they are, no? Because he knows first-hand what it's like to go through life with no rudder.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

BYTEMITE

Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:44 AM

Of course.

I'm only trying to settle the argument here with what we do know for sure - I've had people argue with me that the losses on the Alliance side were proof that Book was still working for the Independents. But yes, considering how it ties in with the movie, that interpretation is most likely the correct one.

GWEK

Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ferrex:
Must find Float Out...

I enjoyed The Shepherd's Tale because it was part of the big bad 'verse. I truly enjoy what Joss created.
That being said, I did not enjoy The Shepherd's Tale because it was part of the big bad 'verse.
It was pointed out that the comic didn't match the canon of the series as shown in the "Safe" episode. The evidence shown in that episode shows Book as someone in extremely good standing with the Alliance. I don't think there's any argument on this.
Now, I could be wrong, but a government (especially its military) is not going to afford any kind of protection, or assitance, to someone who they will summarily jettison from a spaceship for a debacle like the one depicted in The Shepherd's Tale. They will certainly not treat him like an honored guest.
The events depicted in "Safe" and in the comic just don't jive as they are presented. Yes, it's possible that there is another explanation, but we are not offered that. We can suppose all we like, but we have no evidence of a forged Ident card (in Safe) or a cover up, or any other type of explanation. It's just disjointed.
Personally, I feel that Book deserved better than what he was given in this comic/graphic novel. He was such an epic character in the TV show and was treated like so much in the BDM, the comic book treatment of him was just The comic simply failed.
The treatment of Mal in the comic was laughable as well, I thought, but I won't get into that.

Been a while since I've read THE SHEPHERD'S TALE, but I don't think there's an actual continuity problem with SAFE (although the point is written poorly enough that I can see how many folk might think that).

Before the battle that Book "botches," he's an Alliance hero, yes? With a good reputation. Heck, this is a guy who could single-handedly change the course of the war, right? So he's got to be a bit of a Big Damn Hero for the Alliance.

Then he screws things up, AND THE ALLIANCE SWEEPS HIM UNDER THE CARPET. They just make him disappear. Most people won't know what happened to him.

Now, we've got the dude who's brother died because of Book, right? Sure, HE knows the truth, but is it because it was public record, or just because he dug a little deeper and knows the truth that most people--even Alliance military--don't?

Which might explain why he's such a nasty guy. He KNOWS Book is a scum-bag, but he's living in a society where Book "died" (more accurately, disappeared) as a hero. That's got to really irk a guy:

"Hey, you know Book?"
"That old war hero who disappeared?"
"He's responsible for the death of my brother!"
"That doesn't sound like the Book *I* know!"
"Grrrr!"

Now, skip ahead SAFE. They read Books Ident-card, and they're like "Holy cats! You know that war hero that disappears and everyone thinks is dead?!? He's NOT dead! He's right here on our ship! CRIKEY!"

I don't know if there's anything in SHEPHERD'S TALE that conflicts with that, but that's my interpretation.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

GWEK

Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Of course.

I'm only trying to settle the argument here with what we do know for sure - I've had people argue with me that the losses on the Alliance side were proof that Book was still working for the Independents. But yes, considering how it ties in with the movie, that interpretation is most likely the correct one.

Still, I'm curious about the ramifications of the cybernetic eye...

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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