Shepherd's Tale discussion (for them that's read it only)
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Friday, May 27, 2011 04:31
VIEWED: 34214
PAGE 4 of 7
Quote:
Originally posted by KalEl:
But the Independents did exist. To quote Book "it's a war, prople die." and a couple of panels later when Book's superior says "I knew this operation was a disaster waiting to happen.", Book responds "It would've ended the war in one day."
Yeppers!
Also, when Book is beating the girl for information as an up-and-coming officer, she is a rebel and the two observing officers note that Book works so hard to end the War, not because he is put off by the violence of the War, but because he hates the thought of losing.
Even if the whole Unification War timeline wasn't off, the time Book was on Serenity is ALSO wrong.
The "Shepherd's Tale" timeline has Book embarking on Serenity four years earlier than his death on Haven.
This is plainly wrong and, when combined with the Unification War errors, is not capable of being rationalized to fit the timeline already established by the Firefly TV series and the BDM Serenity.
This is just sloppy work by the Whedons, and is consistant with other Joss timeline errors.
("Eight months she's been on my boat...")
("The World of 2507" pre-production memo, etc.)
Thing is, I'm not focusing on the timeline errors.
I can't speak to Joss' other works, but the Firefly 'verse suffers from a number of incongruities that make it tough to establish reliable canon.
It's not exactly nit-picking to note such author and creator inconsistancies,
but it also doesn't need to take away from the effectiveness of how the tale was told.
I still feel "The Shepherd's Tale is a worthy part of the Firefly 'verse.
And tho' I'd like to see a little more attention paid to some of the details, I'll also echo my own sentiments that I'd like to see Joss and Zack collaborate further to grow the 'verse with tales well told.
Mike
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Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
If they were at war already, why were the soldiers being transported surprised at a ground attack when they landed? That doesn’t make any sense.
SNIP
They were surprised that the enemy was waiting in overwhelming numbers for their "sneak" attack.
They were surprised that most of their transports were destroyed in response to an "unexpected" assault that was supposed to end the war.
This was certainly a Unification War event, not something from a pre-war period seven years prior.
Mike
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Exactly, the Alliance doesn't recognize the rebels as a unified army with numbers, because politically they are not at war with them, obviously, if they were, they would have expected an army.
It’s a coordinated uprising.
By my calculations the difference is four years, not seven.
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And, it's not the Whedons who have trouble with time, it is Mal,
In Serenity, Mal inquires about the entry couplings, arguing with Kaylee that she said they would "hold for another week"
Her response, "that was 6 months ago Captain"
Also, your argument assumes that there were no wars before the Unification War, which is clearly contrary to what Joss writes on page 55 of the Serenity Companion. There were wars and uprisings which the Alliance countered with amassing a huge military to contain fractional separatists.
These rebel uprisings could have been occuring for years before the actual, Unification War.
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Quote:
This synchronized attack was staged to prove the rebel forces were able to organize and unify creating the Independents, which triggered the Unification War.
Book was working for the Independents. Why would he mastermind an operation that would begin the war? Why not try and subvert from inside to prevent the war?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
SNIP
Also, your argument assumes that there were no wars before the Unification War, which is clearly contrary to what Joss writes on page 55 of the Serenity Companion. There were wars and uprisings which the Alliance countered with amassing a huge military to contain fractional separatists.
These rebel uprisings could have been occuring for years before the actual, Unification War.
I certainly wouldn't expect ANY human history to be free of war.
And your view of the uprisings might explain the period when Book was rising through the ranks.
But, I still feel that continuity errors abound in the 'verse and the big assault to end "the War"
sounds like a part of the Unification War to me.
I don't try to rationalize the inconsistancies in the 'verse; too much mental gymnastics for me.
If a new timeline comes out of Camp Whedon that reconciles the inconstancies, that's fine.
But fan generated explanations are purely for the benefit of the person proposing them.
And I'm not busting on that.
My "Wash Lives" scenario is what it takes to keep my interest in the 'verse.
I just accept that others are often unimpressed.
The Shepherd's Tale is still a worthy part of the 'verse,
and that's the part that counts.
Mike
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Quote:
Originally posted by KalEl:Quote:
This synchronized attack was staged to prove the rebel forces were able to organize and unify creating the Independents, which triggered the Unification War.
Book was working for the Independents.
Why would he mastermind an operation that would begin the war?
Why not try and subvert from inside to prevent the war?
Agreed, and once again, the big operation to end the war that failed feels like something undertaken early in the Unification War.
The attack wasn't staged to prove the Independents' abilities;
it was launched to eliminate the Independents.
The Independents, in the alternative, viewed it as a chance to make squelching the Independence movement prohibitivly costly for the Alliance.
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Book wasn't working for the "Independents" he was working for insurgents who believe in independence, as they at no time refer to themselves as the “Independents”.
Book thought one or the other would surrender, keeping a war from starting, a one day war, he fails, as we can assume the Alliance returns with a vengeance.
Book doesn’t care about or believe in either side, or the loss of human life from his actions. He’s essentially without belief, it creates a moral vacuum, which is replaced by power and hubris, and that’s why his message to Mal while he’s dying is to believe in something, anything. The comic comes around full circle to the scene in the movie, where Mal finds him dying.
Agree, it’s a good addition to the verse whether or not it reflects the timeline.
PM, Wash is dead; let him rest in peace, he lives on in his, I’m sure, beautiful daughter.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
SNIP
Book thought one or the other would surrender, keeping a war from starting, a one day war, he fails, as we can assume the Alliance returns with a vengeance.
Don't Agree...
Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
Book doesn’t care about or believe in either side, or the loss of human life from his actions. He’s essentially without belief, it creates a moral vacuum, which is replaced by power and hubris, and that’s why his message to Mal while he’s dying is to believe in something, anything. The comic comes around full circle to the scene in the movie, where Mal finds him dying.
Agree...
Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
Agree, it’s a good addition to the verse whether or not it reflects the timeline.
Thanks...
Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
PM, Wash is dead; let him rest in peace, he lives on in his, I’m sure, beautiful daughter.
But no thanks...
With the publication of "The Shepherd's Tale",
Book's death has even more meaning in the Firefly/Serenity story arc.
Wash's death is just an insult.
River's cryo-transport-box; million-credit meat like Tracy smuggled; bring back Dobson who was shot in the HEAD?!
Yeah, Wash Lives!
Mike
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Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
Book wasn't working for the "Independents" he was working for insurgents who believe in independence, as they at no time refer to themselves as the “Independents”.
Book was invited to JOIN THE INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENT, and that movement had the Browncoat patch as their symbol for independence. This means they were organized unified group that were recruiting. It was the beginnings of the Independents.
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