Israel
POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Sunday, March 8, 2026 16:45
VIEWED: 4330
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Interesting; as to Wulf’s original question, I looked around, 'cuz I don't understand it either. From a purely rational point of view, I don't understand why we support them NO MATTER WHAT they do.
I found a lot of differing opinions on line:
I found the prejudiced:Quote:
http://www.anusha.com/usisrael.htm
It is often said that America supports Israel because the Jews in America are better organized, more vocal, contribute money to political candidates and vote for candidates who support Israel.
This argument seems unsupportable. As far as giving money to political candidates, Jews are notoriously tight-fisted when it comes to money. It seems unlikely that they give significant amounts of money to any political candidates.
As far as their voting power is concerned, Jews are mostly concentrated in New York City. In the other 49 states, their vote would not be enough to swing an election. Moreover, the anti-Israeli voters are unquestionably in far greater numbers than the Jews.
As to the other points, it is not correct that all American Jews support Israel. Many American Jews are strongly opposed to Israel and to the policies of Israel.
There must be some other reason why America supports Israel.
The answer is obvious to almost everyone who had studied the subject. America supports Israel because Fundamentalist Christians in America support Israel.
Whereas Jews are tight with their money, Fundamentalist Christians are required by their religion to donate ten percent of their income to religious causes. A surprisingly large number of Fundamentalist Christians follow this rule exactly, especially since they have been taught that they will burn in Hell for all Eternity if they do not do so.
Fundamentalist Christians constitute the biggest voting block in the USA. No political candidate can get elected if the Fundamentalist Christians are opposed.
The rational (sort of):Quote:
http://christianactionforisrael.org/isreport/julaug04/why.html
The United States and Israel have many mutual political interests. Ethical and altruistic considerations aside, this is the primary impetus behind international alliances. Geopolitical maneuvering and backroom deals are part and parcel of the international political landscape.
And the nationalistic/humanistic (sort of):Quote:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090321095704AAF84aF
Because we have a tradition, a bond, alot in common with Israel, we are allies, it's good to have friends in the right places, we're proud of our moral fortitude to support Israel.
Then there's the answer from a politico (Inofe):Quote:
All the details on the reasons at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/660883/posts
I would like to emphasize seven reasons why Israel has the right to its land.
1. Israel has the right to the land because of all of the archeological evidence.
2. The second proof of Israel’s right to the land is the historic right
3. The third reason that land belongs to Israel is the practical value of the Israelis being there.
4. The fourth reason I believe Israel has the right to the land is on the grounds of humanitarian concern.
5. The fifth reason Israel ought to have the land is that she is a strategic ally of the United States.
6. The sixth reason is that Israel is a roadblock to terrorism.
7. The seventh, and most important, reason why we ought to support Israel is because God said so.
I gotta say Inhofe’s “reasons” are mostly reasons I don’t agree with, but that’s just my opinion.
So I guess there are as many answers as there are people answering. I did find this interesting, tho’; apparently from John Adams forward, EVERY President has been effusive regarding “our” support of the Jews and, once created, Israel.Quote:
John Adams, 2nd President of the United States
I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize man than any other nation. (Letter from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson)
John Quincy Adams, 6th Presid
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Niki, how are you defining "fundamentalist" Christian here? I think generalizations, though really hard to avoid, can be problematic. I guess depending on how you define it, I'm a "fundamentalist" Christian, I'm certainly a Christian either way. I recently started giving 10 percent, for the longest time I was being lazy etc. But no one, no where ever said that I'd burn in hell if I didn't, it just makes sense to, to keep things at church running etc. Plus I believe that God blesses us and we should give back etc. I think you might be thinking of Mormons who come around and enforce the rule more severely, though I'm sure some Mormon among us might dispute that, but anyways. Just sayin.
Just how much I should support Israel is a question that I wonder about and struggle with a bit. But I do believe they have the right to be there. Its a really hard situation, so many people want that land and believe they have the rights to that land, its so complicated.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Right on Riona!
Most folks here likely assume near abouts all fundamentalists are of the the westboro 'ilk.' The kind who cherry pick a few verses in Leviticus to spread hatred rather than focusing on Jesus's inclusive message. Ironically, this would make those labeled decided "unfundamentalists" in practice.
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The fundamentalists around here are adorable. The Amish and other Mennonite sects. They're very charming and not at all obnoxious. The rest of the christian community is mostly just nominal. They're not really religious at all.
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I think during the Cold War it was due to the Soviets supporting the Arab states. When the USSR collapsed, the US government couldn't really just cut all ties and probably didn't want to.
"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"
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Quote:I don't believe they HAD the right to begin with. But they are there now, and driving them out is out of the question. It's not so much about "rights" as it is about "peace."
Originally posted by RionaEire:
But I do believe they have the right to be there.
Elias Chacour, the aforementioned Palestinian Christian, titled his book "Blood Brothers" because he believes that Jews and Arabs are blood brothers who have historically shared that land, and they can share it again.
But I believe, for them to share it peacefully, the GOI has to change its policies toward Palestinians and start treating them like human beings. That is not negotiable.
-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
But I believe, for them to share it peacefully, the GOI has to change its policies toward Palestinians and start treating them like human beings. That is not negotiable.
They do treat them like human beings...human beings that want to kill them and take their land.
Here is a comparison of Palestinian attitudes that exist today and that would exist if your scenario was to happen:
Today's world:
Jew: "You Palestinian dude, stay in your designated, walled off compound and if you want to work you have to pass through a check point and show your papers."
Palestinian: "Ok, I kill you."
Your world:
Jew: "My Palestinian brother, welcome to my home and all that I have is yours to share."
Palestinian: "Ok, I kill you."
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.
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Hero,
You're still an idiot. Some things never change. How many Palestinians do you know? Or Muslims at all?
My solution: Make it economic. And fair. That will stop the violence. Anyone can live anywhere they can afford to. Smart Palestinians will hold out in Gaza until the prices skyrocket. I've seen Gaza, it's not a pit. I get why they don't want to move. But the way things are going, they're going to have to move, because it's about guns, and the Israelis have all the guns.
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Rion, I’m not defining “fundamentalist Christian” at all; it was a quote. I’m not sure how one would define it, as there are fundamentalist Christians who actually think and behave as real Christians, and those who are convinced anyone who isn’t like them are going to hell and want to “control” others.
I should tell you, since I don’t know you and you haven’t been on RWE in the time I have been, that I am a buddhist and have a lot of prejudice against “organized religion”. So that’s where I’m coming from. We have no “god”. So while I respect and admire anyone of ANY religion who practices what that religion was founded on, I have a real chip on my shoulder about those who call themselves one thing and behave otherwise. That’s all I can say about the term “fundamentalist Christian”, which is bandied about and which I feel is too general a term to denote those I disrespect for their attitudes and actions.
I guess Happy said it best for me, with far fewer words. The Westboros are exactly that to which I was referring, and I despise them. Also, being buddhist, I have been the target of those kinds of people, who believed I was going to hell unless I was like them, and who have attacked me and said and done things to me which in my view have NOTHING to do with Christianity. Buddhists aren’t allowed to proselytize, to the point where we’re not supposed to talk about buddhism unless someone asks three times, so it indicates they’re really interested, not just casually curious.
I agree with DT in that the Amish and other Mennonite sects are usually what I’d consider “real” Christians, except insofar as their strictures and shunning and so forth kind of offend me. I have a couple in Washington who are good friends who are “friends” and don’t believe in that aspect of the faith, and I respect them highly.
As to Israel, yes, it’s complex. To me, however, it’s pretty simple; both Israelis and Palestinians have rights, and when EITHER commits atrocities, they should be held accountable. Gawd how I wish Quote:
were possible. Jews and Arabs---and Christians---all began as “blood brothers”, and the virulent hatred of any of them for either of the others has always mystified me and made me sad. Like I said, I’m an opponent of organized religion, in that I think it has done FAR more harm than good over the ages.
Jews and Arabs are blood brothers who have historically shared that land, and they can share it again.
Ironically, if we got uncensored, accurate news about the issue, what Hero said:Quote:
goes just as much for the Palestinians as it does for the Israelis. We just don’t hear about it and America stands by Israel, “right or wrong”. I agree with DT, you’re an idiot, and you reflect far too many idiot Americans.
They do treat them like human beings...human beings that want to kill them and take their land
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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Quote:
I agree with DT in that the Amish and other Mennonite sects are usually what I’d consider “real” Christians, except insofar as their strictures and shunning and so forth kind of offend me.
Niki, sorry their way of life offends you. They did choose it, you know. It's not a mandatory thing that you must join the church when you come of age.
Mostly, from what I've seen, shunning, which involves not talking to people except on a cursory level, mostly comes about because someone has tried to destroy the community. Occasionally it's a personal spat with no real legitimate grounds.
The two notably examples I recall are one man who tried to introduce television into the community, and the other, two guys who tried to introduce cocaine.
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