Israel

POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Sunday, March 8, 2026 16:45
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WULFENSTAR

Sunday, February 6, 2011 12:37 PM

This is more for the conservative-republican types.

I was watching Fox this morning, and they were of course covering Egypt. What struck me as off, was the newscaster kept INSISTING that we have to assure the world of our commitment to Israel. That we are COMMITED to Israel, beholden to Israel, etc.

Ok.

Why do so many conservatives love Israel? And are willing to turn a blind eye to all that "nation" has done? Is it the whole Jewish-Christian thing? Collective guilt over WW2? Some mistaken belief that (culturally) Jews are better than Muslims? Money?

I mean at what point do we say enough is enough, and sort of just let them go about their own business?

I'm pretty conservative myself. I hold to beliefs that I think are the right ones.

But Israel? Why? Why the devotion?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

DREAMTROVE

Sunday, February 6, 2011 2:20 PM

Religion. Everyone needs allies. People of faith tend to stick together. I have my own personal reasons, but most supporters are Christian, and I think it's a solid idea.

Yes, sure, Israel can also be seen as a beachhead colony invading the middle east. It's also a nation of 6 millionish, and a lot of those people are/were Americans.

Might as well ask why people on the right support the troops. IMHO.

I also think there's some propaganda there. But there's no reason to make an enemy of an ally.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, February 6, 2011 2:50 PM

Politics, religion and history, is my guess.

Israel is by far a more more free and open country than it's surrounding neighbors. It's a democracy, and for that, we should stand with it.

How much and to what extent, remains debatable. I don't understand the " at any cost " mentality. I don't see why we need to give Israel a blank check , after all we've done for them. I think they should carry the burden on their own a bit more. A lot more, actually.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

RIONAEIRE

Monday, February 7, 2011 5:47 AM

Well I'm a Christian and I think a lot of us Christians tend to support Israel, we want to protect them etc. As for why America supports them, I think it has to do with the democracy thing as mentioned above. That's a legitimate question you ask though, when you want to know an answer to something asking is the best way to find it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, February 7, 2011 12:45 PM

I USED to support them.

Then I read a book called Blood Brothers by a Palestinian Christian priest named Elias Chacour. He described how Zionists came in and scared everyone away from his village; when they returned from hiding, the land had been confiscated and given (or sold) to new Jewish immigrants. His olive orchard, which had been in his family for 3 generations, now suddenly had a new owner. His father had to get himself hired as a worker on his own land so he could continue to care for his own orchards. Being Christian, they were pacifists and did not believe in fighting back violently. Chacour, actually, was very much a turn-the-other-cheek kind of guy.

So then I did more research and discovered the inhumanity of the policies of the govt of Israel (GOI). I cannot imagine God or anyone justifying support of such oppression. Neither can many Israelis.

Soldiers who refuse to serve in the occupied territories. Read the letters.
http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp

Btselem, Israeli human rights watch group
http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp

Breaking the Silence: stories by Israeli soldiers
http://www.shovrimshtika.org/index_e.asp

North American Jews who oppose Zionism: Not in Our Name
http://www.nion.ca/

The GOI is not an ally. It is a leech. A leech that is willing to attack and kill Americans when it suits them.

See USS Liberty. Email and talk to the veterans that survived that attack.
http://www.gtr5.com/summary_of_events.htm

I am still a Christian, but I cannot, in good Christian conscience, support what the GOI has done and is still doing.

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Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, February 7, 2011 1:36 PM

A couple of things.

1. Democracy. There were plenty of other countries in the Middle East, who had close to (if not complete) representative democracy.

If support for democracy was the goal, then why did we blow it with them to support Israel?

2. Im kind of a Christian myself. I can't in good faith support what Israel has done. If its the end times thing, where israel is suppossed to play a key role... then shouldn't God take care of it Himself? Why do we have to keep it open and ready?

3. I think it has to do with money, and influence. LOTS of money, LOTS of influence.

There just really isn't any other explanation.

And that really bothers me.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

DREAMTROVE

Monday, February 7, 2011 2:19 PM

CTS

Nice delineation. I might steal it. I would say that GOI is potentionally a problem, but more I think it's who is in power. There is an actual difference, but the extremists have a lock on power, and they keep this lock on power by keeping everyone afraid.

The more acceptance Israel has, as a state, the more it will weaken those extremists, IMHO. I mean, "nuke israel" and rebel and terrorist leaders chanting "death to israel" is not helping.

Again, of course, it's hard to find a govt. on earth to agree with. I'm very fond of Japan, and would support Japan, but I'd have some doubts about GOJ, and that's far better than most of the competition. Picture the dilemma facing all of my chinese relatives re:GOC.

Jews kick out arabs still happens today, and will keep happening until some system is set up where things can be peacefully negotiated. It's not like this doesn't happen with the US, everywhere, or even Peru. Admittedly, it's not as bad as it is in Brazil (apocalyptically bad, like the CAR,) but it still happens, the GOP (not the GOP, govt. of Peru) is still kicking out amazonas clearing forest and setting up spanish speaking settlements.

To quote Spike "It's what conquering nations do" but if we want it to stop, we need to change the level on which they do it.

Consider this, what if Israel were to take Gaza by purchasing the entire damn thing at fair market value? Then the palestinians could stay, and be muslim israelis (there are already hundreds of thousands of those) or they can move if they feel uncomfy to anywhere else, and not end up slaves or in refugee camps, etc. (And we all know that Israel has plenty of cash to do this with, and we also know why GOI doesn't do it: It would kill the fear they use to stay in power.)

Oh, and the panic that one day a muslim might be elected head of state. But, that happened here, and I didn't notice any change (snark at obama, but I don't get this sercret muslim thing, you can't be an ex-muslim, just like you can't be an ex-catholic or an ex-jew, they'll never let you go ;) )

But really, it's a problem not being solved because TPTB don't want to it solved.

That's why I always say I support Israel, but not Netanyahu, he's a nutcase. But then, so is every US president.

All I ask of a world leader is that they a) look after their own (people, environment, country, whatever,) and b) that they be reasonable. Sure, no one since Rabin fits that criteria, but it's been a very long time since any US president did. (Maybe Nixon, but that's a very tentative maybe. Possibly even Carter or Reagan, but we're getting onto a slippery slope.)

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, February 7, 2011 4:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Again, of course, it's hard to find a govt. on earth to agree with.

Yes, true, anything with G in it is not something I can support. But some G's are worse than others. I esp resent G's that take MY money to do their crap.

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Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

DREAMTROVE

Monday, February 7, 2011 6:35 PM

Yeah, not a fan of the G-thang either. I go back and forth on GE, but not GM, I'm also having some serious doubts about GMO, which I used to support, but now that I see what they're doing with it, I'm worried. I see potential for great good, but its not happening yet. I have serious issues with G's with numbers, like G7, G8 and G20. Also GATT, GWB, GHWB, And I I'm not so sure about the changes to the GRE. I like the introduction of GUI to computers, though I was happy with shell. I remain undecided on GQ and worry about my GP. Though not my GPA, but I'm not real keep on the concept.

Oh, you meant govt. yeah, you Got a point there.

BYTEMITE

Monday, February 7, 2011 7:24 PM

Missed one: GPS.

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