Companions 'Gilded Cage'
POSTED BY: Bytemite
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 08:47
VIEWED: 36140
PAGE 9 of 11
I'm confused, are you saying Nandi and Mal ARE about sex and lust, and Mal and Inara are about complex deep feelings, such as love?
Cause that's what I thought, too.
I like all these characters; I just see them as deeply flawed as intended.
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"I expected a whole lot more of you to be taking payment in our trade"...which seems to mean cash payment was an option for those who would choose it. And Mal explains to her why everyone but Jayne isn't taking sex as payment.
The prostitutes trade is prostitution, taking payment in trade from prostitutes would be sex in lieu of money. So actually, she was asking why Mal wasn't acting like Jayne was acting, asks if he's sly, then offers him her boys as an alternative. I don't see her offering cash as an alternative at any point here.
And then she asks him about Inara.
This is when she realizes for certain that Mal has feelings for Inara. Inexplicably, despite her training, she then believes Inara has no feelings for Mal, which is actually a plothole in the episode because even people with no companion-like training are often able to see what's going on right away.
In any case, what Nandi does is to use her companion skills to try to help Mal get over Inara in compensation for him saving her people and the house.
It doesn't work, and when Nandi sees Inara the next morning, she realizes just how badly she accidentally screwed things up.
Now, okay, I'll give you that clearly Nandi enjoyed herself, either because, despite months or even years of no activity, Mal is pretty good, or because she's satisfied she's helped him, or both. But I also posit this is no different than when Inara is pleased with one of her clients (Fess Higgins, perhaps?), or the way Helen, the prostitute Jayne takes to, seems pleased with HIM. That's not an act, I imagine some prostitutes actually do enjoy some of their time with their John. But I also don't think it's necessarily an indication of a deep, meaningful, or long-term relationship. Nandi knew Mal would leave if they survived the coming fight, and she accepted it, and then we see Mal try to sneak out of Nandi's room in the morning.
Also, in regards to the above, just because I think Nandi is putting on a tough act in order to function as the brothel madam, I don't think any less of her. When Inara was putting on a tough act holding Saffron at gun point in Trash, when all of us know there's no way she would ever pull the trigger, it was very cool, and upped respect for her. Nandi develops a willingness to pull the trigger, either with the former brothel owner, or to fight to keep it here, but I see her as doing something similar, only long term.
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Now Nandi is displeased that Mal didn't tell her how Inara felt about him.
Nandi knows whatever she thought she had with Mal is over with at this point, because as soon as Mal hears that Inara has feelings for him, it's like Nandi… who?
I know you want to admire these characters, Toad, but I think you want to make more of the Mal/Nandi liaison than there is, they may be more similar in some ways, but Joss likes to explore opposite, but complimentary pairings such as Mal and Inara. It’s just more interesting for romantic storytelling and keeps the viewer engaged longer trying to figure out with the hell is going on between them, see the BDM if you haven't already.
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Originally posted by Platonist:
I'm confused, are you saying Nandi and Mal ARE about sex and lust, and Mal and Inara are about complex deep feelings, such as love?...
I don't know what Inara is about. If she's in love with Mal she has a piss-poor way of showing it. Of course the same can be said of Mal. Life is too short for such adolescent games. If you're in love with someone you let them know. If they reciprocate you're golden, if they don't you move on. You don't tell someone they're only a business arrangement and then get all upset when they bed someone else. And I don't buy that she is sparing his feelings because she's dying. That's not the way a mature adult handles life. She should say:"Mal, I have feelings for you but I don't think we should get intimate because I'm dying." Don't feminists understand maturity and honesty? C'mon.
As far as the night of sex between Mal and Nandi, who knows how deep their feelings went? And if it was only a night of lust, that doesn't mean they couldn't like one another. It wouldn't be the first time friends had sex knowing it would go no further. If Inara weren't in the picture Mal and Nandi could have been fuck-buddies. Nuthin' wrong with that. If Inara was an adult and truly didn't want a relationship but loved Mal and wanted his happiness she should have NOT caused a problem by getting upset. Of course it's moot because Nandi was killed.
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Originally posted by Bytemite:Quote:
...The prostitutes trade is prostitution, taking payment in trade from prostitutes would be sex in lieu of money. So actually, she was asking why Mal wasn't acting like Jayne was acting, asks if he's sly, then offers him her boys as an alternative. I don't see her offering cash as an alternative at any point here.
If she doesn't intend to pay in cash does she expect her girls to sex-up Book? Simon? Wash? Zoe? and the rest of the crew? Nonsense! Clearly cash payments are on the table for those that choose that alternative.Quote:
In any case, what Nandi does is to use her companion skills to try to help Mal get over Inara in compensation for him saving her people and the house.
That's a huge leap in logic that I don't see any support for in the script. Of course you have the right to invent any edits to the script you want as long as we're clear they are your version of events.Quote:
It doesn't work, and when Nandi sees Inara the next morning, she realizes just how badly she accidentally screwed things up.
Screwed what up exactly? A contentious relationship that consists only of trading insults and giving each other the cold shoulder? Oh! Say it isn't so! hahaha If I were Mal I would have walked away from Inara long ago! She's nice in some ways but where Mal is conserned, she's a total pain in the ass! She isn't worth the frustration! Both Mal and Inara need to grow up and get on with their lives.Quote:
Now, okay, I'll give you that clearly Nandi enjoyed herself, either because, despite months or even years of no activity, Mal is pretty good, or because she's satisfied she's helped him, or both.
What makes you think Nandi doesn't get her share of sex? Where is that in the script? You're just making stuff up out of thin air. If I walked into that whorehouse, Nandi would be my first pick!Quote:
..I imagine some prostitutes actually do enjoy some of their time with their John. But I also don't think it's necessarily an indication of a deep, meaningful, or long-term relationship.
So? Some hot, meaningless sex ain't a bad thing! Just ask Kaylee! hahaha Or maybe they actually liked each other, which is what the say in the script, and they would have been friends for life. We will never know because Nandi is dead.
As far as the rest of it, the script doesn't indicate that Nandi is anything other than a tough broad, before this episode and during it. She only asked Inara and through her, Mal to help in this particular fight because she knew she couldn't take on the whole town alone and hope to survive.
Why are you so desperate to judge this one night of sex? Why do you need to load it with unseemly intentions?NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
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Originally posted by Platonist:
...Nandi knows whatever she thought she had with Mal is over with at this point, because as soon as Mal hears that Inara has feelings for him, it's like Nandi… who?...
I disagree. First of all, the fighting starts soon after so there isn't a lot of time for soul searching. But, if you watch the episode, on the balcony before they start firing, there is a smile and significant glance that passes between Mal and Nandi. Later, while talking to Inara on the ship Mal expresses remorse because he feels he failed Nandi because she was killed and tells Inara that nothing would dissuade him from that conviction. Now that is anything but a "Nandi..who?" dismissal. Mal clearly has feelings for Nandi, even while he is trying to express feelings for Inara, and he admits as much to her.
Now, some people here rush to cast unfounded aspersions on this heart to heart between Mal and Inara but apparently these people think it impossible for a good person to have feelings for two people at the same time. I'm here to tell you, it happens. Human relationships, even between good people, are seldom so tidy as some want them to be.
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...I know you want to admire these characters, Toad, but I think you want to make more of the Mal/Nandi liaison than there is...
I'm simply saying they regard each other exactly the way they say they do in the script for chrissakes!!! I'm not the one clambering out on a limb here! And I can't for the life of me understand why so many here attack the moral character of Mal and Nandi for having a night of sex. Are there a lot of fundamentalist Christians on this site? If Mal had to wait around for Inara he might as well resign himself to becoming a monk in Book's abbey. The people all hung up on the Mal x Inara thing, well, it's like Mal's take on faith: "It's a long wait for a train that don't come."
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Um, okay, wow. Maybe it's just the others rubbing off on you, because they're being a lot harder than I am, but you're getting pretty belligerent with me here. Let's go back to that "it's just a show and we don't have to make battlelines" thing.
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If she doesn't intend to pay in cash does she expect her girls to sex-up Book? Simon? Wash? Zoe? and the rest of the crew?
Her exact quote:
"Truth is, I expected a whole lot more
of you to be taking payment in our
trade."
So yes. I think she did.
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That's a huge leap in logic that I don't see any support for in the script. Of course you have the right to invent any edits to the script you want as long as we're clear they are your version of events.
This is you starting to get insulting. I don't know if you saw the exchange in the Operative thread, but don't call me irrational. Please. I have very good reasons for all of my assertions.
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Screwed what up exactly? A contentious relationship that consists only of trading insults and giving each other the cold shoulder?
Both Mal and Inara got hurt. I said nothing about Nandi screwing up their relationship, but Nandi clearly REGRETS the HURT she accidentally brought to both of them.
If the relationship was nothing more than trading insults and giving each other the cold shoulder, I contend that it wouldn't have hurt, as it obviously did.
I also think you've neglected to observe the times where it's depicted they DO get along. I recommend the beginning and end of Shindig to you, the celebration in the opening of Our Mrs. Reynolds, the little smiles they exchange with each other during the dinner party in Out of Gas, the way they pal around on the space station at the start of The Message.
We only SEE the times when they're fighting because that makes good tv drama. But there's plenty to imply they both get more out of the relationship than the occasional fights.
As I said before, we are all entitled to our own interpretations, and yours is valid. But I haven't put down your assertions as illogical or unsupported by the script. So do please extend me the same courtesy.
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What makes you think Nandi doesn't get her share of sex? Where is that in the script? You're just making stuff up out of thin air.
YOU are making up things I never said. What I said was that Nandi was SATSIFIED by Mal. Does that imply that I think she didn't get her share of sex? In fact, Mal and Nandi were directly contrasted with Chari and Burgess and his forcing her to give him fellatio.
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Why are you so desperate to judge this one night of sex? Why do you need to load it with unseemly intentions?
Why do you need to assign intentions to my arguments? I believe I'm the best judge of what I am saying and what I think. Not. You.
I'm not going to be around the board for two weeks. I believe this may be for the best.
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I'm simply saying they regard each other exactly the way they say they do in the script for chrissakes!!! I'm not the one clambering out on a limb here!
What you are being is quite rude.
There is a lot of subtext in the script. It's there if you care to look for it. If you don't, it's no skin off my nose. Believe what you like. But don't insult us. The four of us haven't come up with this idea from out of nowhere, and as ever, the show is open to interpretation.
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And I can't for the life of me understand why so many here attack the moral character of Mal and Nandi for having a night of sex. Are there a lot of fundamentalist Christians on this site?
Yes, we're fundamentalists around here, who much prefer an actual practicing sex worker in a pairing to a reformed sex worker who has, judging from her funeral, found Christianity herself.
Your conflating us to having some sort of prudishness against sex and the sex worker profession is unfair and misrepresentative.
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EDIT: No, I'm going to stay out of this now. If I get involved, I'm just going to get angrier. And in the past that has been seriously bad for my health.
A break will be good.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Um, okay, wow. Maybe it's just the others rubbing off on you, because they're being a lot harder than I am, but you're getting pretty belligerent with me here.
I apologize if I was belligerent and insulting. I think you're right. I came on here wanting to talk about nice things like Kaylee. I feel like I've crossed over to the dark side on this thread. Someone above told me to argue with all my "geese on the table" (still trying to figure out what that means) so I decided to throw those geese down hard. But, I didn't mean to make you unhappy. I hope you can forgive my rude behavior. I also hope you stick around as long as you can before you have to leave. I'll make a mental note not to be an asshole...at least not to you. :)
Toady
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