Someone please break Joss' fingers! [spoiler]

POSTED BY: Toadsmoothy
UPDATED: Saturday, January 1, 2011 01:04
VIEWED: 40555
PAGE 7 of 13

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Originally posted by Toadsmoothy:

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Originally posted by GWEK:
...One episode idea that Joss and Tim realized they couldn't use involved the ship being attacked by Reavers. Inara is kidnapped and taken back to the Reaver ship, where she is gang-raped. When the crew eventually rescues her, they find her surrounded by a bunch of dead Reavers.

What I (and others) have inferred from this is that Inara has some sort of (for lack of a better term) "sex poison" that can kill someone who has sex with her. (Such a close knotting together of sex and death is certainly within Joss's general mindset, and it leads to some very interesting speculation about the true nature of Companions and their Guild)...

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...(scraping my blown mind off my monitor)...

I am such a punter. My mind would have never gone there. Are we sure we would want to go there? If the crew found out about this aspect of Companion culture what would that do to the crew dynamic? Suddenly everyone would be wary of Inara. If she killed the Reavers with sex, who else has she killed with sex. I thought Companion culture was supposed to be a positive thing. It would change everything, bring the darkness in amongst them rather than just external. Man, that's sick. Makes me wonder what I'm doing here. Do I want to know more? I'm not so sure.

It reminds me of the old, male castration fear in primitive cultures. Suddenly Inara's vagina has teeth!

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Yeah, I actually looked for a way to use the term "vagina dentata" in the post, but it seemed forced. :)

Remember, Joss's original vision of Firefly was apparently much darker than what we wound up with. There no reason to assume that he would still have tried to have Inara gang-raped by Reavers in "our" version of Firefly... of course, Joss being Joss, I'm fairly certain that's a door that he wasn't willing to close when the series started (hence, I suspect, the seeding of the syringe in the pilot).

You mention that you thought Companion culture was supposed to be a "positive" thing. What, exactly, is that assumption based on? Inara is supposed to represent an Eastern philosophy (while Book represents a Western one), but there's no reason to assume a philosophy is wholly positive or negative. (Joss, being a bitter atheist, seems to attribute negatives to ANY proscribed philosophy).

If anything, I think "Companion culture" was supposed to in some way adjust the balance of power between the genders. (Much of Joss's work is, after all, pro-fem). That increases the "power" of women... and what does power do? Yep, you guessed it: corrupt.

It's not that big a jump from the Companions Guild to the Dollhouse. Both are organizations based on using fantasy (most often sexual fantasy) for power, and both use "courtesans" who purport to be "real." (It's really a conversation for another day, but I think that Joss used DOLLHOUSE as a "clearinghouse" for the some of the Firefly ideas he knew he wouldn't get to use). If you want to consider how twisted things might be behind the scenes at the Guild, one need look no further than the politics of the Dollhouse.

As for people being wary of Inara... well, that's the stuff of good drama, isn't it? Just in the series: Jayne and Simon don't trust each other (and Mal only begins to trust Jayne AFTER he gets the betrayal out of his system); nobody trusts River (quite possibly including River herself); and everyone knows Book is harboring secrets. I'm not even getting into personal issues beyond trust here, but there are tons within the crew.

Because, y'see, conflict is INTERESTING. Without conflict, there is no story, and for a show that was about nine people stuck on a spaceship, the more that conflict is between them, the better.

Consider, for a moment, an earlier Whedon series: BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER. While the "Scoobies" are generally entertaining and sometimes interesting, I would content that one of the most interesting periods for Xander and Willow was when they were both in relationships (with Cordelia and Oz,

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Well said GWEK, and I would also add that we can't expect the guild the be exactly like Inara, after she must have left that shiny atmosphere for a reason. Maybe they are sometimes sex spies and assasins and maybe Inara was fleeing that aspect of the job but not willing to become a 'whore' like Nandi. Also, they've said she could have made high priestess, maybe she was really good at the ugly side of her job and like book, is looking to atone, use her skills to help others like Fess, or in a non sexual way as with Simon and River in the pilot.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
...because if I see anything in Joss' world about sex, it's that barring Angelus and Buffy sex is put up on a pedestal.

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Oh, wow. WOW. I don't think you've been watching the same shows that I have.

WOW.

Or else you've been watching the same shows but missing every OUNCE of subtext.

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Fes Higgins can't become a man until he has sex (and shows up his old man)!

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Go back and watch the episode. Fes having sex has NOTHING to do with his "manning up. You've completely missed the point of that sequence. It's actually the exact OPPOSITE. He is able to stand up to his father because Inara helps him understand how limited his father's thinking is.

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Ballard and Echo are tragic because he dies before they get to be together, and it's a happy ending because Alpha "fixes" that!

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Which, again, has absolutely nothing to do with sex. It's stated quite explicitly that they've had sex any number of times... but because sex is only part of the equation, they still can't connect (Again, nothing about putting sex on a pedastal... in fact, again, it's depicted pretty much as just a physical action).

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Spike becomes a total wuss after he falls for Buffy, and spends the rest of the series trying to get his badass back!

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Which, again, has nothing to do with SEX. It has to do with LOVE... which is different. When Buffy and Spike have sex for the first time they LITERALLY knock down a building, because it's about the brutal release of physical frustration. Buffy continues to have sex with Spike because she's keeping a dirty little secret from the rest of the gang. Sex is put anywhere BUT on a pedastal with these two (although it is quite possible that they literally have sex on a pedastal... I forget).

As for sex being idealized: Yes, I'm sure when Spike tried to rape Buffy, that was sure sex on a pedastal.

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Yeah, I'm probably wrong on the Buffy and Angel examples because I haven't seen the series, but that's my understanding from what I've read.

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You're understanding is limited, and flawed. I must assume that you've never seen an episode of Dollhouse either.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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TOADSMOOTHY

Friday, December 17, 2010 6:34 PM

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You mention that you thought Companion culture was supposed to be a "positive" thing. What, exactly, is that assumption based on?

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I guess watching the way she treated clients like Fess and crew members like Book and Simon. She seemed wise and supportive, even Mal, who she secretly prayed for. I don't recall an incident where I thought Companion was anything but positive.

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If anything, I think "Companion culture" was supposed to in some way adjust the balance of power between the genders. (Much of Joss's work is, after all, pro-fem). That increases the "power" of women... and what does power do? Yep, you guessed it: corrupt.

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I guess I just didn't see that corruption in Inara and I haven't gotten it when Morena has talked about the role. (U Tube)

I'm not familiar with Joss' other shows and maybe they're not for me. I'm not terribly brainy nor sophisticated in my tastes, obviously. I guess I like the pablum version of Firefly and am troubled by all these darker threads. That is my limitation.

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Because, y'see, conflict is INTERESTING. Without conflict, there is no story, and for a show that was about nine people stuck on a spaceship, the more that conflict is between them, the better.

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Well, I've had a lifetime of interpersonal conflict and that's not what I come to entertainment for. I enjoyed the family aspect of the crew battling external forces, but tear the family apart and you lose me. I've seen enough of that for a lifetime. Perhaps we're talking levels here, beyond which I don't want to go.

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Consider, for a moment, an earlier Whedon series:

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I'm sorry. I can't follow you because I'm ignorant of these series.

So, there you have it. I'm a boob who wants hero tales and happy endings. Perhaps I don't belong here. Not everything is for everyone.

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Originally posted by Toadsmoothy:
Yeah, like the syringe she pulls out when the Reavers were near. I thought it was a suicide dose in case they were boarded by the Reavers. Now I'm thinking it could have been medicine for her condition.

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Maybe she took the shot when she the Reavers first show up, and thats what leads to her illness. She didn't run to it when the Reavers showed back up and Mal put her in her shuttle. This is before the movie so perhaps the Guild was supposed to have a hand in creating Reavers and it would give her some control over them, but kill her in the long run.

Or the syringe was not for Inara.

Could be,its meds that makes the crew seem dead and we learn that Reavers dont harm whats already dead. Or some anti-Reaver shot that would make the crew undetectable to the Reavers.

Or my favorite, its Alliance super juice that turns her into the Hulk and she smashes them, but she's relucatant to use it since it's hard for a green Companion to find clients.

Chances are we will never know but it's fun to guess.

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Originally posted by GWEK:

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
...because if I see anything in Joss' world about sex, it's that barring Angelus and Buffy sex is put up on a pedestal.

---

Oh, wow. WOW. I don't think you've been watching the same shows that I have.

WOW.

Or else you've been watching the same shows but missing every OUNCE of subtext.

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Fes Higgins can't become a man until he has sex (and shows up his old man)!

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Go back and watch the episode. Fes having sex has NOTHING to do with his "manning up. You've completely missed the point of that sequence. It's actually the exact OPPOSITE. He is able to stand up to his father because Inara helps him understand how limited his father's thinking is.

Quote:

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Ballard and Echo are tragic because he dies before they get to be together, and it's a happy ending because Alpha "fixes" that!

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Which, again, has absolutely nothing to do with sex. It's stated quite explicitly that they've had sex any number of times... but because sex is only part of the equation, they still can't connect (Again, nothing about putting sex on a pedastal... in fact, again, it's depicted pretty much as just a physical action).

Quote:

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Spike becomes a total wuss after he falls for Buffy, and spends the rest of the series trying to get his badass back!

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Which, again, has nothing to do with SEX. It has to do with LOVE... which is different. When Buffy and Spike have sex for the first time they LITERALLY knock down a building, because it's about the brutal release of physical frustration. Buffy continues to have sex with Spike because she's keeping a dirty little secret from the rest of the gang. Sex is put anywhere BUT on a pedastal with these two (although it is quite possible that they literally have sex on a pedastal... I forget).

As for sex being idealized: Yes, I'm sure when Spike tried to rape Buffy, that was sure sex on a pedastal.

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Yeah, I'm probably wrong on the Buffy and Angel examples because I haven't seen the series, but that's my understanding from what I've read.

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You're understanding is limited, and flawed. I must assume that you've never seen an episode of Dollhouse either.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Some good analysis and excellent points there.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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