I dislike Superman
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Monday, March 9, 2026 17:54
VIEWED: 22488
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Tony, consider the end of Superman II (I prefer the Donner cut of it, but whatever): He can do ALL these amazing things, almost literally a God with all that power, yet he cannot have that which he wants most- Lois. By giving up his mortality, he gave up his chance to be with her. That quite a gorram tragic sacrifice IMO.
The Kryptonian Chrisisall
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"Doing the right thing is his motivation."
Hello,
Doing the right thing is less a motivation than the choice based on a motivation. He could, after all, do neither good nor evil. Or he could do both good and evil things. He could just be a guy, like the rest of us. Rich men have great power to shape the world, and many of them do neither good nor evil. They just live a life of leisure and pleasure. So why is Superman the way he is?
Spiderman learned that his apathy had a price. He lost loved ones due to a selfish point of view. So he feels compelled to do good as penance. Batman is motivated to do good out of a combination of suppressed vengeance and a desire to shut down the cycle that cost him his parents.
Superman is devoted to doing good because... I have to believe there was some formative event that channeled him into being who he is. Not just good, but lily-white.
"Tony, consider the end of Superman II (I prefer the Donner cut of it, but whatever): He can do ALL these amazing things, almost literally a God with all that power, yet he cannot have that which he wants most- Lois. By giving up his mortality, he gave up his chance to be with her. That quite a gorram tragic sacrifice IMO."
Superman II was, for this reason, a much better film than either the first or the most recent. It's also notable in that it's the only film where we see Superman taking revenge on someone. However, the choice he is forced to make comes off as a weak one, since it is never explained WHY he should have to make the choice. It's just stated he has to. And he agrees. The sequence is bizarre. Most ordinary people would say, "Oh, sure, I guess I have to give up Lois, aww shucks" and then they'd just have Lois anyway, without agreeing to strip themselves of their powers. Also, the mysterious memory erasure he uses later in the film was a magic reset button in the worst tradition of comics.
The most horrible Superman film (I think it was called The Quest For Peace) was also the most realistic from one standpoint. Superman steps up and owns his God role, stealing billions of dollars worth of hardware from the world's militaries and hurling it into the Sun. It's the first time we see Superman make the kind of moral choice you'd expect of an actual Superbeing who has elected to look after a population of contentious mortals. The movie could have been even better if we had seen the expected Military reaction to such an act. i.e. the Superpowers of the world start looking for a way to destroy Superman, considering him Public Enemy #1, and realizing he is essentially a dictator of the planet. If humans do something he doesn't like, he's prepared to step in and give them the proverbial smack-down. He's no longer enforcing laws, he's dictating a new reality to the subject race.
--Anthony
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I've always liked Superman but only saw the first couple of movies, Smallville, and the original TV series. That they keep making movies and TV series about him and people keep watching indicates he must be interesting. My favorite quote about Superman comes from "Kill Bill".
"Bill: About two minutes, just long enough for me to finish my point. Now, a staple of the superhero mythology is, there's the superhero and there's the alter ego. Batman is actually Bruce Wayne, Spider-Man is actually Peter Parker. When that character wakes up in the morning, he's Peter Parker. He has to put on a costume to become Spider-Man. And it is in that characteristic Superman stands alone. Superman didn't become Superman. Superman was born Superman. When Superman wakes up in the morning, he's Superman. His alter ego is Clark Kent. His outfit with the big red "S", that's the blanket he was wrapped in as a baby when the Kents found him. Those are his clothes. What Kent wears - the glasses, the business suit - that's the costume. That's the costume Superman wears to blend in with us. Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent. He's weak... he's unsure of himself... he's a coward. Clark Kent is Superman's critique on the whole human race. Sorta like Beatrix Kiddo and Mrs. Tommy Plimpton.
The Bride: Aso. The point emerges.
Bill: You would've worn the costume of Arlene Plimpton. But you were born Beatrix Kiddo. And every morning when you woke up, you'd still be Beatrix Kiddo. Oh, you can take the needle out.
The Bride: [does so] Are you calling me a superhero?
Bill: I'm calling you a killer. A natural born killer. You always have been, and you always will be. Moving to El Paso, working in a used record store, goin' to the movies with Tommy, clipping coupons. That's you, trying to disguise yourself as a worker bee That's you tryin' to blend in with the hive. But you're not a worker bee. You're a renegade killer bee. And no matter how much beer you drank or barbecue you ate or how fat your ass got, nothing in the world would ever change that."
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Quote:The VERY reason I feel the Donner Cut is far superiour. No "kiss of forgetfulness." They part, with Lois crying & Superman saying that they will still see each other every day at the Planet.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Also, the mysterious memory erasure he uses later in the film was a magic reset button in the worst tradition of comics.
However, you DO have to skip the two chapters with the time-travel redux they felt forced to include at the end for the sake of remaining true to the original script. Easily skipped with two presses of a button, and a near perfect film is made apparent.
Yeah, I liked the Paris stuff in the theatrical one (Removed in the Donner Cut), which is why I own both.
The laughing Chrisisall
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AKK! Kryptonite post!
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"Easily skipped with two presses of a button, and a near perfect film is made apparent."
Hello Chris,
Well, yes, if I could re-edit the films I could make them superior. In fact, if I could re-edit the films, Lois would never have survived for part II.
This would have made the first film a near-perfect modern take on the Greek tragedy.
Farfly,
The Superman monologue in Kill Bill does a great job of explaining some level of appeal to the character concept as a critique on the human race. However, once one absorbs that critique, there's very little to be said for the character. "Superman shows us that people are weak, frightened creatures" is good for a one-off, and has value. But this isn't really further explored or plumbed beyond the initial existence of the Clark Kent persona.
Anyone,
Is it just me, or is Lex Luthor oddly obsessed with Real Estate ventures? He's a more interesting character than Superman, by virtue of being a villain, but his obsession with Real Estate really handicaps him, I think.
--Anthony
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Well, yes, if I could re-edit the films I could make them superior. In fact, if I could re-edit the films, Lois would never have survived for part II.
You are working so hard at being dead to me...
The laughing Chrisisall
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Hello,
I'm sorry Chris. You know, if I didn't have such a strong tendency to get caught up in small details, I'd probably be a happier person. I lament that some otherwise excellent stories have been ruined for me by the botched execution of the climax. I feel that the most celebrated Superman movies all suffer from poorly written endings. It's like an orchestral piece that rises to a crescendo where every instrument falls to pieces before the ultimate triumphal notes can be played.
I have these same problems with other films that I want desperately to love, but who have climaxes that corrupt the satisfaction of the enterprise to the point of being, at best, a mildly pleasant diversion. This, handicapped further by my frustration that what *could* have been was so much better than what was.
However, if the movies are great to you, I am willing to believe that I am missing some important nuance, like a man with color-blindness trying to understand the full glory of the color pink... And failing. I just can't see what you see.
--Anthony
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Quote:
Superman is devoted to doing good because... I have to believe there was some formative event that channeled him into being who he is. Not just good, but lily-white.
I agree with you that the lack of motivation and character depth IS an issue and does reduce how interesting the character is for a lot of people. But in time that Superman was created it wasn't seen as impossible for someone to just be RAISED with a helpful, wholesome moral outlook.
In fact, I suspect that superman was marketed to young boy scouts as a model of what they should try to be. Which is why he seems so over the top perfect, and why he doesn't NEED any formative event. I think the message that was trying to be conveyed is "look, kids, you can grow up to be a good person and help little old ladies across the street too!"
Although the superpower thing kind of mars the message, but I think we can agree that Superman had about as average an upbringing as possible, right?
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Quote:Okay, I'll spoil it here: After the destruction of the Fortress of Solitude (in the Donner Cut), and Superman has acknowledged to Lois that they cannot be a "couple", a tearful Lois says "Don't ever forget."
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
However, if the movies are great to you, I am willing to believe that I am missing some important nuance
The same line Clark's Mom said to him just before he left home in the first film.
I'm all tearin' up here just typing it, I'm such a sucker for that kind of connection in films.
*Runs off to find a carton of tissues*
The laughing Chrisisall
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