I dislike Superman
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Monday, March 9, 2026 17:54
VIEWED: 22488
PAGE 4 of 7
Quote:I believe the key to a good Superman story is locating & exploring his internal conflict (the ONLY good moment in Superman III); he really can't be permanently harmed, so any "fight" treated as "serious" is just lazy nonsense (see: The END of Superman III, btw).
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Although the superpower thing kind of mars the message
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:That's why I liked Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman so much. That Clark was very cool.
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
He is Clark Kent, an intelligent, courageous, and savvy guy who wears an admittedly ridiculous costume to protect his privacy
The Lois wasn't bad, either.
The laughing Chrisisall
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I've always liked the stories where everyone actually knows Clark Kent is Superman, but they're kind of just humouring him. It becomes an interesting question of just who he's performing for and why. And in that case the answer can only be himself, and what he wants to be is human, and normal. That's an interesting take on Superman.
Though by that interpretation, Lois Lane still doesn't get it, and must just be a complete idiot.
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Yeah, Lois and Clark got them right. Still didn't really love their version of Lex, though (but they were still closer than most).
"My" (post-Crisis) Lex is a self-made billionnaire, born in Metropolis, in Hobb's Bay (a.k.a. Suicide Slum), to a perpetually drunk mother and an absent father. He started out with nothing, and he earned every penny he's ever had. He built the Lexcorp business empire and turned Metropolis from a fading port city into one of the cleanest and most beautiful cities on Earth, and he did it with nothing more than blood, sweat, and tears.
And then Superman arrives.
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
Yes, perhaps it is the sense of wasted potential. He isn't just boring in these portrayals. He's less than he should be. There is a fundamental disconnect between me and anyone who enjoyed the Superman film (or the most recent), and I've never understood how to bridge the gulf.
Well this is an argument that's kind of indefensible. I have it regularly with my best friend. See he thinks iRobot could have been a far better film and Will Smiths' character should have been much more than he was... But you need something to quantify such a remark. The reason being because your point could be attributed to a number of cinematic and comic book heros. Batman for one, the Hulk or dare I say it Harrison Ford in Blade Runner. They could all be said to be less than they should be... But how?
I think it boils down to a choice you either like or dislike. The disconnect you talk of I would suggest is nothing more than meer slight of opinion. I wasn't particularly taken with Singer's recent Superman effort either but I think it's a version of the character that is of it's time. For me I think I've fallen out of sync with current cinematic character preoccupations and so I guess I let it go. For example I'd rather sit and re-watch Adam Wests' interpretation of Batman, because I honestly think this brooding dark knight thing we have now with Batman has gone way over top. OK the guy lost his parents but for crying out loud, he's a grown man now. Get over it! It doesn't have that much endurance - at least not for me. And, in so much as trying to bridge the gulf - I don't think you can. I've never particularly got Bond. He's ok and stuff and he has some cool gadgets but really for the most part I just want his smarmy face kicked in!
Quote:
Well, for me, at least a part of the enjoyment is when the writer finds ways to test that faith. Some of my favorite hero portrayals include stories where the hero loses in some way. Stories where victory- if achieved- is expensive, bloody, or painful. If not every time, then at least some of the time.
Yes I agree. But do you not think you have that with Soop? I mean the guy regularly overlooks his own desires in order to save the human race. Not only once but several times, and everytime Soop just goes ahead and saves them. There's pain there for sure.... No?
Quote:
Well, inquiring minds will disagree. I enjoy that Batman's motivations are relatable. In most portrayals of Superman, his motivation is ill defined.
Soops motivation is to save humanity from itself. It's actually quite philosophical. Like Sisyphus rolling the stones up the hill only watch them role down again... This is Soops dilemna.
Quote:
That's interesting, because I never understood why Superman wasn't much more selfish. Something I wanted to see on Smallville but didn't get to see was a rebellious, selfish bastard who could do anything he wanted... and who learns through some event or series of events that he wants to live his life a different way. With the exception of some mind-altered/possession episodes, we saw a nearly flat character trajectory. Good restrained superkid becomes good restrained superman. It was a great disappointment to me.
Because when you can do anything you want ... you don't want to do it any more. Imagine if mount everest had steps leading all the way up. You think Sir Edmond Hilary would have bothered climbing the thing? Not a chance... No I think the greater more challenging thing to do is that which is hardest to achieve. That's where Superman has his motivation and his reason to be.
Quote:Yes Asterix! Though those are probably not strickly comics. But they are great and very entertaining.
Should I pick up a comic again?
Nice chatting to you AnthonyT
By the way. What do you regard as worthy cinematic ventures..? Give me your top ten flicks. Let's see what we can see :P
Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com
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EVERYONE here should read THIS:
Man, it was great. Seriously.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:I really enjoy Clooney's Batman & Robin, myself.
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
For example I'd rather sit and re-watch Adam Wests' interpretation of Batman, because I honestly think this brooding dark knight thing we have now with Batman has gone way over top.
Call me foolish, call me irresponsible...
Without versimilitude, all superhero movies go too stupid or too serious.
The best 3 superhero movies that employ versimilitude are, IMO:
Iron Man
Superman : The Movie
Legend Of Zorro
The laughing Chrisisall
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http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,1542018_2,00.html
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"By the way. What do you regard as worthy cinematic ventures..? Give me your top ten flicks. Let's see what we can see :P"
Hello,
It's always an excruciating process to come up with a top ten list. I can list some films that I thought were very good, though.
Action/Adventure
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Die Hard: I thought the first Die Hard film was very good. The idea of a lone, poorly equipped off-duty officer out-thinking and out-fighting several amply equipped, prepared, and hardened criminals/mercenaries is frankly unbelievable. However, the movie sells it to us. We can see the character's wheels turn, we can see his narrow victories and escapes, and we can feel his pain as he is progressively ground up throughout the film. Finally, by giving us a really intelligent villain, the hero seems very bright as well. This was one of the first movies I ever saw that realized that the strength of the villain adds to the strength of the hero that defeats him. Hans is a great villain, and so Mcclaine (sp) seems like a great hero.
Indiana Jones 1-3: Highly entertaining romps that enjoy a dalliance with the supernatural. The movies are aware enough of their own occasional sillyness to wink at us and invite us along for the ride. Outside of supernatural events, nothing portrayed is so flatly, mind bogglingly impossible as to toss us out of our immersion. Good fun all around.
Thrillers/Mysteries
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The Usual Suspects: I will never forget the feeling I had in the last few minutes of the film, when the thread in the tapestry of lies became apparent, and a sub-par cripple transformed into an unparalleled criminal mastermind. An excellent use of the Unreliable Narrator.
Memento: By revealing things backwards, we are left to experience the continuous sense of disconnect that the main character feels. The film invites us to participate in the mystery of what is going on rather then simply observe it. The final reveals are very satisfying.
Western
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Unforgiven: The movie deconstructs the glamour and myth of the Wild West while providing us three-dimensional characters and a resolution that feels right. I'm not sure Deadwood could ever have existed if not for Unforgiven. Because of Unforgiven, a new kind of Western story became possible. Some people dislike it for the same reason I love it.
Superheroes
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Spider Man: I love Superheroes and Superhero stories, but the Spider Man movie with Mr. Mcguire (sp?) has, in my opinion, the best superhero origin story. I don't mean the stuff about the spider bite. I mean what happens after. In a stable mind, Anger fades. Spiderman is not a broken vigilante like Punisher or Batman. He needed a different motivator suitable to his nature and age. The Dangers of Apathy and Greed are his origin story, and so his superhero motivation becomes a formative life lesson and personality trait rather than a mere traumatic incident that shattered his psyche. Someone didn't do something to Spiderman to make him Spiderman. He made choices for himself, choices he deeply regretted. That's the best reason for becoming a Hero I've seen. The stuff with the Green Goblin was so-so and incidental. I like Spider Man for it's remarkable origin story. Spider Man is also one of the more relatable heroes because he has job trouble and girl trouble just like us normal folks.
Watchmen: I read the comic before the movie, but the movie was about as faithful a rendition of the comic as you could hope for. What would real people be like as Heroes? They'd be as messed up as the rest of us. What would a real Superman be like? Increasingly distant and detached from his charges, concerned with things beyond this flimsy existence. What would a real supervillain be like? Not someone who does evil for its own sake, or gets money for its own sake, or gathers power for its own sake. Add into this moral choices that are not easy to resolve. Not a perfect superhero tale, but a relatively unique on
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Quote:Wow, totally on the same page here!!!
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Watchmen: I read the comic before the movie, but the movie was about as faithful a rendition of the comic as you could hope for. What would real people be like as Heroes? They'd be as messed up as the rest of us. What would a real Superman be like? Increasingly distant and detached from his charges, concerned with things beyond this flimsy existence. What would a real supervillain be like? Not someone who does evil for its own sake, or gets money for its own sake, or gathers power for its own sake. Add into this moral choices that are not easy to resolve.
The laughing Chrisisall
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