SPOILERS!!! Discussion of Inception
POSTED BY: jewelstaitefan
UPDATED: Thursday, April 16, 2015 05:07
VIEWED: 15884
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OK, all. Think of this.
You are Mal. You're in reality, and Cobb didn't come back with you, he thinks he's in reality.
He's living weeks in the span of your seconds.
How do you get him to kick out?
You can infiltrate his dream, but he discounts you as his construct.
He's dreamt himself some high-excitement, spyworld and guns and explosions, how can you trick him into leaving?
You 2 are really the only 2 who've done this - you've lived lifetimes in the span of hours, nobody else will know until you tell them. So all these other architects are constructs, plus the CEOs of worldwide companies, etc. Exciting, but not real.
So work out the film from how she is tricking him into kicking out, without him knowing he is.
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M4P, yeah, I thought the score was great too. That opening sequence with the musical rolling dread just made it for me. No one does Grand Impending Badness like Hans. 
And something else that my wife and I we're wondering - we were both trying to read the combination on the safe but only got the first few digits, 528 something. But we did see that it was the same as one of the hotel rooms. The other hotel room was 491... one of the song titles is 528491... how would Cobb or any dreamer know the combination that Fisher's dad would use unless it's ALL a dream?
Interesting JSF - I really feel like I just need to see it again to have any hope of understanding more. That last sequence between Cobb and Saito, feels like something big happened there.
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
OK, all. Think of this.
You are Mal. You're in reality, and Cobb didn't come back with you, he thinks he's in reality.
He's living weeks in the span of your seconds.
How do you get him to kick out?
You can infiltrate his dream, but he discounts you as his construct.
He's dreamt himself some high-excitement, spyworld and guns and explosions, how can you trick him into leaving?
You 2 are really the only 2 who've done this - you've lived lifetimes in the span of hours, nobody else will know until you tell them. So all these other architects are constructs, plus the CEOs of worldwide companies, etc. Exciting, but not real.
So work out the film from how she is tricking him into kicking out, without him knowing he is.
So everything is actually one level deeper than what we are shown. What we see as Cobb's reality is actually a first level dream. Mal 'kills' herself (and wakes up), Cobb doesn't so he stays there, believing this to be real, Mal to be dead and it's all his fault. Which means the idea he incepted her with when he touched the totem actually worked too well for her and she got out leaving him stranded.
Michael Caine, Mal etc could all be doing this in an elaborate scheme to get him out, as you say. That means what we see at the end is still the first level of dream (Cobb's reality). Saito holds up on his promise which effectively allows Cobb's mind to see his kids at home in what he thinks is reality.
This means Caine and probably his kids are dreaming with him. The kick being when he meets/touches his kids or with his mind accepting 'the truth' and he will awake naturally.
I really like that idea and it would explain a hell of a lot. I think it's now my fave theory but
I really need to see this film again.
And just to add this to all the folks that keep bringing it up but at what point are we told that the spinning top is Cobb's totem and he is actually using it. Eames (I think) explains the totems role to Ariadne not Cobb. Yes he keeps spinning it but it doesn't mean he's using it as his totem. We know he keeps it because of what he thinks he did to Mal. I thought it pretty much established by the end of the movie that his kids were his totem.
"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall
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Damn - The idea Cobb was incepted with he says over and over "I just need to go home."
Good stuff - it does explain a lot. Now I really can't wait to see it again!
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Quote:Did you read that article? All the big booming music was the wake-up tune that they played through the ear phones, slowed down. Brilliant. The deeper they go, the more time slows, the deeper, slower and boomier the music gets. I just love it.
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
M4P, yeah, I thought the score was great too. That opening sequence with the musical rolling dread just made it for me. No one does Grand Impending Badness like Hans.
And the boom-y sounds were lovely. Not brass, not synth, not drums, but some bizarre combination. So cool. Even without the cool storyline, I'd go to the movie again to hear that in surround a second time.
My take on the combination was that they got him to say some numbers early on, then wrote it on the later stuff (the architect can change things as she goes) The dreamer guy (I forget names) would see the numbers and feel they were familiar, which gives the dream weight for him. Because part of the challenge is to get him to open his top-secret safe. It's just a dream right - the combination isn't really a set sequence. It's just whatever the guy's subconscience believes will work.
Yeah, the scene with Cobb and Saito definitely seems central. I've been pondering whether Saito was the one driving Cobb's dream (in the it's-all-a-dream scenario). Why did the last scene mimic the first? It might have been more than Saito shaping his own limbo.
BTW, when they first talked about limbo and said you could be there for years, become an old man, did anyone think of the first scene? Right away, I knew there was a connection there. Why else was Saito old in that first scene? Definitely something fishy going on.
And yes, I absolutely must see this again!
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
All the big booming music was the wake-up tune that they played through the ear phones, slowed down. Brilliant. The deeper they go, the more time slows, the deeper, slower and boomier the music gets. I just love it.
Seeing as you guys bought up the music in the film I thought I'd mention this now as I don't think anyone else has. Probably nothing to do with the plot, just a nice coincidence....
....but the music used in the earphones to wake them up was that French song about regret or no regrets by Edith Piaf. She was recently played by Marion Cotillard in a film who of course also plays Mal.
Something? Not something?
"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall
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Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
....but the music used in the earphones to wake them up was that French song about regret or no regrets by Edith Piaf. She was recently played by Marion Cotillard in a film who of course also plays Mal.
Something? Not something?
Oh my god - you can't mean.... we all dreamed the whole thing?
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:Quote:Did you read that article? All the big booming music was the wake-up tune that they played through the ear phones, slowed down. Brilliant. The deeper they go, the more time slows, the deeper, slower and boomier the music gets. I just love it.
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
M4P, yeah, I thought the score was great too. That opening sequence with the musical rolling dread just made it for me. No one does Grand Impending Badness like Hans.
And the boom-y sounds were lovely. Not brass, not synth, not drums, but some bizarre combination. So cool. Even without the cool storyline, I'd go to the movie again to hear that in surround a second time.
My take on the combination was that they got him to say some numbers early on, then wrote it on the later stuff (the architect can change things as she goes) The dreamer guy (I forget names) would see the numbers and feel they were familiar, which gives the dream weight for him. Because part of the challenge is to get him to open his top-secret safe. It's just a dream right - the combination isn't really a set sequence. It's just whatever the guy's subconscience believes will work.
Yeah, the scene with Cobb and Saito definitely seems central. I've been pondering whether Saito was the one driving Cobb's dream (in the it's-all-a-dream scenario). Why did the last scene mimic the first? It might have been more than Saito shaping his own limbo.
BTW, when they first talked about limbo and said you could be there for years, become an old man, did anyone think of the first scene? Right away, I knew there was a connection there. Why else was Saito old in that first scene? Definitely something fishy going on.
And yes, I absolutely must see this again!
Yes, I did read that article, thx! Fascinating, talk about layers within layers - I want that job! If it wasn't for a complete lack of musical talent... the whole cd is very good btw, not just those big signatures, there's more variety than I remembered.
The combo - if he said those numbers earlier I missed it but definitely might have been there. It seems odd that they would use them for the hotel room numbers though - what would that mean to Fisher, the guy they were trying to take down?
"BTW, when they first talked about limbo and said you could be there for years, become an old man, did anyone think of the first scene?"
Yes, definitely (that make-up job kind of stuck with me). The fact that he was the only one shot... must see again.
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Quote:CD is out already? Excellent. I'm going to look for it as soon as I get a chance. That and the new Starcraft.
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Yes, I did read that article, thx! Fascinating, talk about layers within layers - I want that job! If it wasn't for a complete lack of musical talent... the whole cd is very good btw, not just those big signatures, there's more variety than I remembered.
Quote:They got him to say the numbers in the "first" dream, the one with the van, but before they got in the van. My take: they got him to hand over any random six numbers, then used the numbers again in the hotel layer (and weren't they lucky to get a 500 number and a 400 number so the hotel rooms could be above and below each other - this I take to be Hollywood convenience) So by the time Fisher gets another layer deep these numbers are burnt into his brain. They have meaning, even if he can't place why. Maybe they become a totem of sorts. They allow him to open the safe and face the thing he's been hiding from.
The combo - if he said those numbers earlier I missed it but definitely might have been there. It seems odd that they would use them for the hotel room numbers though - what would that mean to Fisher, the guy they were trying to take down?
Quote:Yeah, bad make-up. Unfortunate. It's hard to make young people look old.
Yes, definitely (that make-up job kind of stuck with me). The fact that he was the only one shot... must see again.
But how could Cobb have known so early on that Saito would get stuck in limbo and get old? Unless there's something bigger connecting it all...
I am tempted by JSF's idea that Mal is alive out there, trying to get Cobb to come out. But I just can't shake Saito. He has to be involved. Come on - a mark that happens to be trained, and happens to put together this huge job which Cobb *has* to take because of his faceless kids, and then Saito comes along in the dream and gets shot, and his limbo was foreseen by Cobb.... It's all too much. Something's going on.
I'm also not convinced the kids are real. It's such a dream thing - he remembers escaping limbo, and he remembers his need to get back to these kids, but he has no memory of Mal pregnant, of little ones learning to walk, etc. Talk about a journey that got skipped. He can't even picture their faces.
I like to think that his kids were a carrot planted in his brain, a fantasy, to get him to do this job. Whatever the job really is.
Or I could be inventing a overly complicated fanfictional take on something meant to be much simpler. Wouldn't be the first time. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I am tempted by JSF's idea that Mal is alive out there, trying to get Cobb to come out. But I just can't shake Saito. He has to be involved. Come on - a mark that happens to be trained, and happens to put together this huge job which Cobb *has* to take because of his faceless kids, and then Saito comes along in the dream and gets shot, and his limbo was foreseen by Cobb.... It's all too much. Something's going on.
If we go with Mal being truly alive and trying to get Cobb out then Saito is part of the same team as Ariadne, Eames etc and even Fischer is. Everybody is dreaming from the moment we see them and everyone is playing a role with the objective of playing out this 'mission' so Cobb can be tricked into kicking. The first scene could be an early attempt to get him out but it fails or it could be the team (Saito and Mal) planting it there to use again later.
Quote:
Or I could be inventing a overly complicated fanfictional take on something meant to be much simpler. Wouldn't be the first time. :)
Aren't we all doing that in this thread?
"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall
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