Terminator Triage: rate the termination
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Friday, August 6, 2010 22:25
VIEWED: 4672
PAGE 3 of 4
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I'm actually all for them changing where things are headed, but they have to keep the main character of the series around.
I suppose I don't really consider Joh the "main" character of the franchise. Just the last 2 films. I feel like, especially in light of the first movie and much of Salvation, it's more the "idea" of Connor the Savior that's central. And forcing someone else into that position would have, to me, been an interesting story to explore.
Quote:
My own idea for where the war should have gone is that John is not the John Connor who turned the tide of the war. The real John Connor had a Dad from the normal timeline. However, that events of the first terminator changed things. Sarah still named her son John but he had a different father and upbringing. The movies should deal with John coming to terms with the fact that he's not the savior. Humanity should be on the brink of extinction and there should be a real sense of fear that the terminators could win. John's goal then would be to find a way to restore the original timeline. Find the time machine and go back to prevent the events of the original movie.
I like the idea of John facing not being the savior, and a general tone of desperation and "we might actually loose", but the plot sounds a bit overly convoluted.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I like the idea of John facing not being the savior, and a general tone of desperation and "we might actually loose", but the plot sounds a bit overly convoluted.
That's why they'll never hire me to write the next film
Though I still think it would have worked better than Salvation. hehe
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Quote:You understand time paradoxes well indeed, Zeek!
Originally posted by Zeek:
ked the original ending specifically because it
My own idea for where the war should have gone is that John is not the John Connor who turned the tide of the war. The real John Connor had a Dad from the normal timeline. However, that events of the first terminator changed things. Sarah still named her son John but he had a different father and upbringing. The movies should deal with John coming to terms with the fact that he's not the savior. Humanity should be on the brink of extinction and there should be a real sense of fear that the terminators could win. John's goal then would be to find a way to restore the original timeline. Find the time machine and go back to prevent the events of the original movie.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
You understand time paradoxes well indeed, Zeek!
I definitely subscribe to time being linear. Even with time travel I still can't comprehend a way for everything to happen all at once. Besides if that's the case then I'd have to believe in fate as well, because everything from now through eternity already happened and it's just going to play out. Zeek does not want.
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Quote:Me too.
Originally posted by Zeek:
I definitely subscribe to time being linear.
A while ago I was directed by someone here to a time travel site that explained the John Connor paradox, which allowed me to like T1&2 once more.
For a time, I owned T2 The Ultimate Edition, and if you clicked an easter egg, when the movie played, the final scene in the flick was a happy ending where Judgement Day never happened. But I actually like *wondering* if it would still happen, so now I own the Extreme Edition (plus it's better picture & sound).
The laughing Chrisisall
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I finally got to see Terminator Salvation. I have to say I loved it! I think it may be the best of the lot because it's really the only movie that is jam-packed with terminator and Skynet stuff. Second viewing sealed it for me. Outstanding start of the resistance war, and all the main characters from the "time-travel" prequels.
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See, for me, TSCC dealt with Judgement Day the right way; the event itself is inevitable. Destroy the nascent Skynet in one form and another will emerge. The primary goal (destroying Skynet) will never accomplish more than to change the date --and runs the risk that if you push Judgement Day too far forward, John will be too old (or too broken by his "training") to fight effectively.
Instead, while you can't change the fact that Judgement Day happens, you might be able to change the Judgement itself --by replacing the coldly pragmatic "Turk" Skynet with the kinder, gentler "John Henry" Skynet. Humanity will be judged. . . and found worthy.
Note that Derek and Jesse eventually realized that they came from different (yet similar) iterations of the future --suggesting that the future wasn't so much being overwritten as the timeline's "wavefront" being bumped to different future timestreams.
Quote:Not necessarily.
Originally posted by Zeek:
I definitely subscribe to time being linear. Even with time travel I still can't comprehend a way for everything to happen all at once. Besides if that's the case then I'd have to believe in fate as well, because everything from now through eternity already happened and it's just going to play out.
Linear causality doesn't override quantum randomness. Let's say I'm debating where to go for supper (I'm not, 'cause it's 8-billion degrees outside, but let's pretend). I'll flip a coin: heads for pizza, tails for chicken.
Right there, I've just created (at least) three different timelines:
Timeline A: I go for pizza.
Timeline B: I go for chicken.
Timeline C: I decide to eat at home.
As a linear being, I experience just one timestream --either A, B, or C. But on a quantum level, all three timelines exist, and, fourth-dimensionally, have always existed. Fate is only an illusion borne of linear perspective, subject to differing choices.
In this model, altering the future is more a matter of altering your subjective course along a specific timestream.
So. . . yes. Everything that has ever happened/will ever happen/could ever have happened/could ever happen yet have already played out. We just only happen to see the one particular path we're on at any given (subjective) moment.
The "dark futures" that follow Judgement Day will still exist (because they do/did), but they don't matter because "the Observer" will have/has already found the "right" future.
In effect, John Connor has already won the war --we just don't know if we're watching the right timeline.
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Terminator: Salvation, I want those 2 hours of my life back!
Those arn't boobs, they're lies! - Stewie Griffin
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Quote:Them's strong words, pardner.
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I finally got to see Terminator Salvation. I have to say I loved it!
I get a kick every time- seen it five times now.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Linear causality doesn't override quantum randomness. Let's say I'm debating where to go for supper (I'm not, 'cause it's 8-billion degrees outside, but let's pretend). I'll flip a coin: heads for pizza, tails for chicken.
Right there, I've just created (at least) three different timelines:
Timeline A: I go for pizza.
Timeline B: I go for chicken.
Timeline C: I decide to eat at home.
As a linear being, I experience just one timestream --either A, B, or C. But on a quantum level, all three timelines exist, and, fourth-dimensionally, have always existed. Fate is only an illusion borne of linear perspective, subject to differing choices.
In this model, altering the future is more a matter of altering your subjective course along a specific timestream.
So. . . yes. Everything that has ever happened/will ever happen/could ever have happened/could ever happen yet have already played out. We just only happen to see the one particular path we're on at any given (subjective) moment.
The "dark futures" that follow Judgement Day will still exist (because they do/did), but they don't matter because "the Observer" will have/has already found the "right" future.
In effect, John Connor has already won the war --we just don't know if we're watching the right timeline.
The part that doesn't make any sense to me about that is our decisions are just chemical reactions going off in our brain. Why would the chemical reaction have a different outcome? Given the same stimuli you should reach the same decision every time. So, there's no alternate universe based on different possible choices. You being you will always make the choice that you make.
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