The Seven Minutes

POSTED BY: HKCavalier
UPDATED: Sunday, July 25, 2004 06:57
VIEWED: 11538
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THATWEIRDGIRL

Monday, July 12, 2004 10:39 PM

i love you guys too. how many places can a girl go and say such things and still be loved? not many, you guys rock.

the libertarian idea is a good one. I know a lot of folks leaning that way. still a long time until November, so I'm taking the time to make sure i get it right--for me.

www.thatweirdgirl.com

TRAGICSTORY

Monday, July 12, 2004 10:56 PM

I agree with and am going to vote Libertarian. Nothing sickens me more than Democrats begging 3rd parties not to run.

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"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

CREVANREAVER

Monday, July 12, 2004 10:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sgtgump:..."Kerry Vs. Bush - whoever wins-we lose."... I am going to vote for the Libertarians again this election. I urge others to vote their conscience. If you vote for the lesser of two evils, you are still voting for evil.

Originally posted by Tiger: That idea deserves to be recognized. Nicely said.

I second that!

Both of the two major parties have been virtually hijacked by crazy extremist ideologues. The Democrats, the loony anti-American left and the Republicans, the fascist far-right.

SERGEANTX

Monday, July 12, 2004 11:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
I second that!

Both of the two major parties have been virtually hijacked by crazy extremist ideologues. The Democrats, the loony anti-American left and the Republicans, the fascist far-right.

LOL, hey, not to be smart ass, but Libertarians are virtually the definition of 'extremist ideologues'. Not that I mind. I'm a card carrying member. I just think ideology, real ideology, is actually something that's sorely lacking in politics these days.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

HKCAVALIER

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tiger: When posing the opinion that GWB planned and authorized the 9/11 attacks (or at least knew about them beforehand), you really need to ask "What does he have to gain?"

This is really sad. The stakes are too high for us to be such sloppy thinkers, Tiger.

Hey Tiger: I never said or suggested that GWB planned or authorized a damn thing. No I didn't. His reactions of fear and confusion were obviously genuine. What I suggested was that the Secret Service was aware that GWB was in absolutely no danger on the morning of September 11, 2001. I confessed that the only explanation I could see was that they must have had certain knowledge that the attack was limited to the North Eastern United States. I suggested that somebody--not Bush, fer crying out loud--knew.

Please, if you're going to insult someone, do them the courtesy of reading their actual words, 'kay?

I'm still waiting on my reality check.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

TIGER

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
This is really sad. The stakes are too high for us to be such sloppy thinkers, Tiger.

Please, if you're going to insult someone, do them the courtesy of reading their actual words, 'kay?

Until you mentioned it I didn't know we were insulting each other. Thanks for letting me know so I can judge your future posts accordingly.

I suggest that if you want people to understand your meaning you should give more thought to your posts. You titled the thread "The Seven Minutes" and talked about Bush's secret service throughout the first post. I doubt anyone who read it took it as something other than an accusation against Bush. Please feel free to clear it up so we can discuss what you really meant.

Quote:
I'm still waiting on my reality check.

That you'll have to take care of yourself.

---------------------------------------------
...The beauty of things was born before eyes and sufficient to itself; the heart-breaking beauty
Will remain when there is no heart to break for it.

TERRIBLETINK

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sgtgump:
I am going to vote for the Libertarians again this election. I urge others to vote their conscience. If you vote for the lesser of two evils, you are still voting for evil. But whatever you do, I love you guys.

www.cafeshops.com/miestelita

In my heart, I agree with you -- but my brain says otherwise. The sad truth is that in the current system, a Libertarian vote is a throw away vote. And there is just too much at stake in a national presidential election -- especially this one -- to throw away your vote. If you want to make the Libertarian party a truly viable third option, then work to invigorate it at the grass roots level and work upwards from there. Strengthen it through local and state-level support and work to make it a vote that counts by 2008. We should have a third option, and hopefully we will soon -- it's up to us to get off our behinds and make that happen. But truth be told, in this election, a Libertarian vote is not so much a vote as a statement of neutrality, a protest that won't be half as effective as real work to strengthen the actual party. Again, I don't like this situation, but I accept it as reality. And as Dante said, "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality."

Make your votes count, folks!

I love all you guys too. (So I apologize in advance if this posts multiple times -- I'm on my wonky work computer that seems to want to post every message 5 times.

)

SERGEANTX

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by terribletink:
In my heart, I agree with you -- but my brain says otherwise. The sad truth is that in the current system, a Libertarian vote is a throw away vote. And there is just too much at stake in a national presidential election -- especially this one -- to throw away your vote. If you want to make the Libertarian party a truly viable third option, then work to invigorate it at the grass roots level and work upwards from there. Strengthen it through local and state-level support and work to make it a vote that counts by 2008. We should have a third option, and hopefully we will soon -- it's up to us to get off our behinds and make that happen. But truth be told, in this election, a Libertarian vote is not so much a vote as a statement of neutrality, a protest that won't be half as effective as real work to strengthen the actual party. Again, I don't like this situation, but I accept it as reality. And as Dante said, "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality."

Make your votes count, folks!

I love all you guys too. (So I apologize in advance if this posts multiple times -- I'm on my wonky work computer that seems to want to post every message 5 times. )

C'mon now, with this attitude we're sure to never get a third choice. But I do agree with you that it's the system that needs to be changed.

(As a side note I could go on about how people's willingness to be led around like sheep is the real heart of the problem, but that hardly wins converts)

Anyway, I mentioned this before on a political thread and it was pretty much ignored. But it's just too damned important to ignore. The root of the problem is plurality voting. Until we change that - until we do away with the rational for the 'other of two evils' mentality - people will be compelled to vote for the candidate that they think can win, not the one they most agree with.

Please, please, please check out this link. It's not very much in the public eye, but it's our only hope IMHO...

http://www.constitution.org/voting/voting.htm

Especially look at Borda voting (voters rank their preferences) or Approval voting (voters can vote for all of the candidates they like). Neither of these strategies is perfect, but they are sooo much better than what we have, it's shameful we go on with the status quo.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

TIGER

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by terribletink:
In my heart, I agree with you -- but my brain says otherwise. The sad truth is that in the current system, a Libertarian vote is a throw away vote.

Just because the chances of winning are 1 in a million doesn't mean it's a throw away vote. To paraphrase, it might not be the winning side, but i'm not convinced it's the WRONG side.

Quote:
If you want to make the Libertarian party a truly viable third option, then work to invigorate it at the grass roots level

How can you invigorate a party if you won't vote for them? The single best way for any third party to win converts is to bring attention to itself by getting a significant number of votes in a major election

Quote:
...a Libertarian vote is not so much a vote as a statement of neutrality

My vote for a libertarian will most assuredly NOT be a statement of nuetrality. I am deliberately voting for exactly what I want even though I know the chances of getting it this time around are extremely small.

Quote:
I love all you guys too.

Right back at ya

It's nice to have a friendly discussion with some fellow browncoats about important topics such as these.

---------------------------------------------
...The beauty of things was born before eyes and sufficient to itself; the heart-breaking beauty
Will remain when there is no heart to break for it.

THATWEIRDGIRL

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 1:41 AM

i agree. the only throw away vote is the one not used. I will not vote for someone i do not endorse just because the person is the likely winner. I beleive my vote will be heard. it will be heard by other voters. It can happen. I know it can. I am getting out there and making people think. I've been pushing poeple about their options for a long time. With any luck, some of them have listend to me and have learned about the other parties. Not saying they'll like the other parties, but at least they now know.

serge, I find that you make me stop and rethink. Not always for long, but I usually stop and rethink.

I have a friend that votes democrat for pres so he can get a gop controlled house. He figures there is usually a retaliation vote for reps. Everyone has a method.

www.thatweirdgirl.com

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