It's worse than we know
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, August 29, 2025 14:55
VIEWED: 15311
PAGE 17 of 25
niki
it's incomprehensible to me how anyone can take lightly this situation. When "some " chose to focus only on trolling and snarky replies, w/ out any hint of conscious awareness to the tragedy that's going on.... it infuriates me.
even if you THINK you know me, and my views on the environment, this should be one thing which we all agree.
- The focus should be, no MUST be, to
Stop the flow of oil - NOW
Keep the oil that's in the water from reaching more of the shore, and clean up what we can, as fast as we can.
THAT should be the primary goals for the Gov't, for BP, first and foremost.
I'm fucking sick and tired of threats of litigation, boots on the necks of BP, Jones Act waivers, Haliburton concrete, Bush, Obama.....
All those arguments can and will be had, in due time. But what we need from the LEADERS is action.
Not talk
Action.
NOW
" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.
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Well it goes to show the goverment and oil companies never had a plan. In case of emergency booklet.
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I FEEL the same as you, and tho' you don't know me either, perhaps the fact that I'm dying to get down there and help, and eventually will by hook or by crook, should tell you something about how strongly I feel. As well as the fact that I DID know, and posted, how bad it was going to be long before anyone else.
The difference is that I have self-educated as best I can and recognize that NOTHING is going to stop the gusherfuck until those relief wells are done, and even THEN, it took months more before the single BIGGEST gusherfuck in the world was stopped, also in the Gulf of Mexico.
Any effort to cap it at this point, given what some experts are seeing, might well (in fact probably WOULD) result in an "underground blowout", which means it would be spewing from many places and MUCH more difficult to stop even when the relief wells are finished.
Ergo, stopping it until then isn't feasible. I'm every BIT as angry as you at the disorganization and that the cleanup and protection of the gulf states isn't being done right, and/or enough isn't being done, but there's nothing I can do about that except write and phone my representatives and the White House, which I have done. Other than that and getting there myself, I have no power to change anything, nor have you.
The other difference between us is that I try to use self-control and not take out on those HERE the feelings I have about this whole horrific situation. I express my anger, I blame whoever my research shows me (to the best of my ability) is actually at fault, and I discuss and debate it here because I care about it. I don't let fly at people here, who can't do anything, and I don't automatically lay everything at Obama's feet. He's not doing enough or doing it right in my opinion, but I find that as much the fault of how government works as his own responsibility, and I lay the blame at the feet of BP for their DELIBERATE lying and hindering cleanup efforts..
I DO blame him...for not trying harder to find out the facts and act on them, rather than trying to calm people's fears by telling us how many millions of feet of boom are being sent/laid, but I don't know how much of that is politics and how much of it is that he's getting faulty and/or incomplete data and advice.
It's not about one person, or even one administration. Facts are that they ARE trying to clean up a mess left by the past administration whose attitude toward oil companies was laissez faire and it's no surprise government agencies adopted the same attitude. None of this would have even happened if that were not so. Second, administrations are bulky, government is slow and inept at the best of times, so I don't expect things to go as they should or at the speed they should.
I think there is a vast difference between the response by the Bush Administration and that of the Obama Administration. That is my OPINION, from what I learned of each. Time will make the final determination.
So yes, I agree with you about how horrific this is; no, I don't think they can stop it no matter what they do until the wells are dug; and no, I'm not about to take it out on the innocent people here or let my political feelings tell me what to believe.
The bad guy is BP; colluded with by Cheney, and to a lesser extent Bush. Obama's Administration gets blame and I freely give it. That's where I stand. Sorry for the length...it's like "automatic typing" when I get head up about something, fingers move faster than brain and brain won't slow down.
Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off
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wish this site would settle down, dammit!
Well since it's here...Raptor, if we can't find teeny, tiny little sparks of humor in our conversations here, we're lost. I take none of this lightly, a teasing comment does NOT change that.
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Quote:
The bad guy is BP; colluded with by Cheney, and to a lesser extent Bush.
BP has shown inhuman ,unconscionable response to the accident. ( I have to believe the engineers are working their asses off, but for the suits in the big offices.... there are no words for how I feel towards them. )
Your flippant comment - " colluded with by Cheney and... Bush ", is stunningly petty and ignorant. You're merely lumping in your ILLOGICAL hatred for those 2 to this specific incident. You have NO evidence that connects anything Bush / Cheney did to why the explosion took place.
Sorry "lax regulation " isn't an answer. Like a crime scene ( which is what this is ), the forensics of this case will be pieced together, and the exact cause ( or damn near enough ) will be found.
Society didn't cause this
Cozying up w/ BIG OIL wasn't the cause. ( where's your outrage on the Rahm Emanuel story again ? I'll have to look that one up )
It's very likely that human error, at the site of the crime, was the cause.
Or nature threw us a curve ball, which no one expected.
I don't know. But we'll find out, and at that point, THEN , is where we lay the blame. But this partisan demagoguing over folks who have been out of office for 2 years, before the facts are in.... is sad.
I'd expect better. Even from you.
" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.
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I already said you're free to believe what you will. To me, the state of the MMS up until this happened speaks clearly of the government's attitude. Letting BP fill out their own inspection sheets in pencil then going over them in pen; not doing inspections; lying; doing drugs and going to bed with BP personnel. It speaks pretty clearly, and any administration which lets it continue is wrong. Obama's did as well up until now, so they're wrong too. Who's "wronger" is a matter of politics.
Yes, I feel the same about the engineers. Apparently a number of them spoke up about problems, and apprently they've been afraid to go public, it's the suits to blame, the bottom-liners.
But my comment wasn't flippant in the least. If I can, I'll dig up (tomorrow!) facts about the Cheney Administration (because I believe it was) and their attitude/actions toward Big Oil, tho' I know it won't convince you. I'm not lumping illogical hatred, I'm extrapolating from what I've dug up, read, heard and more on the issue.
Lax regulation IS precisely the issue. All the things they've found that went wrong...if there had been a proper oversight agency and inspections had been made and de-regulation hadn't taken place, the problems would have been found and corrected and this wouldn't have happened. The last administration cited BP 760 time for "EGREGIOUS, WILLFUL" violations--yet what did they do? Nothing. That speaks to me.
Society has nothing to do with this, dunno where you came up with that. Human error, yes; but beyond that, it's been shown that engineers AND NOAA both brought up problems, the engineers were told to ignore it because they were BEHIND SCHEDULE. That's no error.
Enough, enough, enough. You can't or won't hear me, that much is obvious, so I give up. Your need to disparage me and the "even you" remark puts an end to this. I have tried to communicate civilly, now I'll let you snark to yourself. I believe what I believe; you believe what you believe. To continue to harrangue me because of my beliefs speaks eloquently, and I'm hungry. I've had a bad enough day already (not because of you or FFF), I'm going to try and enjoy the rest of it and forget MY very real problems. What is said here has no bearing on what's happening there, it's just an exercise in communication with people we choose to talk to. I don't choose to keep trying anymore. G'night...
(p.s. Just 'cuz; never ONCE did I feel it necessary to disparage you in today's discussion; I wish you could have done the same. It would have raised my respect for you.)
Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
TRULY signing off!!!
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Quote:
But my comment wasn't flippant in the least. If I can, I'll dig up (tomorrow!) facts about the Cheney Administration (because I believe it was) and their attitude/actions toward Big Oil, tho' I know it won't convince you. I'm not lumping illogical hatred, I'm extrapolating from what I've dug up, read, heard and more on the issue.
You're extrapolating to fit your preconceived ideas, is all. None of what Cheney / Bush did had any impact on the actual blow out, explosion and death of 11 workers.
Obama didn't cause this either. I never said he did. Sure, I'll bring up that BP was getting a safety award, from THIS administration, but until I see a direct cause / effect to what happened on April 20, it's all moot.
Most of those violations you talk of were from 1 catastrophic event.
But again, none of that matters.
If we find that Dick Cheney himself hand wrote a letter instructing BP to blow up the Deepwater Horizon, I'll admit you were right.
happy ?
" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.
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Hoooo...kay, since I said I would, I will. I'm not extrapolating anything; read only the underlined parts for the connection which allowed BP to ignore or gave them exemptions from safety regulations which either directly caused or were contributory to the failure of the Deepwater Horizon.
The following quote is from the Wall Street Journal, but I don’t know how to get into the WSJ without signing up, so I had to find it elsewhere:Quote:
“The oil well spewing crude into the Gulf of Mexico didn’t have a remote-control shut-off switch used in two other major oil-producing nations as last-resort protection against underwater spills.The lack of the device, called an acoustic switch, could amplify concerns over the environmental impact of offshore drilling after the explosion and sinking of the Deepwater Horizon rig last week….. regulators in two major oil-producing countries, Norway and Brazil, in effect require them. Norway has had acoustic triggers on almost every offshore rig since 1993. The U.S. considered requiring a remote-controlled shut-off mechanism several years ago, but drilling companies questioned its cost and effectiveness, according to the agency overseeing offshore drilling. The agency, the Interior Department’s Minerals Management Service, says it decided the remote device wasn’t needed because rigs had other back-up plans to cut off a well.”Quote:
http://www.politicususa.com/en/deregulation-blame-cheney
Evidence is mounting up that the oil spill in the Gulf is the result of a tragic sequence of equipment failures – but ultimately, all of them should have and could have been caught, had the rig been regulated properly. It turns out that tens of thousands of offshore rigs are barely regulated, a result of Dick Cheney’s private energy meetings and interference with the Department of Minerals Management Services, which regulates the off shore drilling. The MMS is also responsible for collecting the billions in royalties from the oil companies and is the same agency that was investigated and found to be doing cocaine and having sex with oil executives. Their judgment regarding the necessity of regulations was clearly not impartial.
A remote shut off valve for off-shore rigs is a regulatory requirement in Norway and Brazil, two major oil producing countries, and several other large oil companies find this valve so important that they use the acoustic switch at the cost of $500,000 a pop even though it is not mandated.
Cheney’s Energy Task Force determined that the shut off valves were a burden on the industry.
The following quote is from the Wall Street Journal--Quote:
The Energy Policy Act of 2005 has come to be known as the “Dick Cheney energy bill,” but there’s one provision that is so closely identified with the former vice president that it has become known as the “Cheney loophole.” The provision in question, Section 322, exempted hydraulic fracturing, a drilling process commonly known as “fracking,” from the Safe Drinking Water Act.
Serious environmental concerns about the process have been raised following numerous cases of groundwater contamination after nearby drilling. The exemption has placed the burden to rein in drillers largely on state regulators that are often unable or simply unwilling to police the thousands of wells that have been drilled in recent years.
Cheney offered permanent regulatory relief and rolled back existing environmental laws to help the oil industry. This particular example also demonstrates the administration’s willingness to distort science to benefit Big Oil and others.
The one exception to the Cheney loophole was a ban on injecting diesel fuel into wells. Yet a recent House Energy and Commerce Committee investigation revealed that the drilling companies violated this single restriction with impunity during the Bush-Cheney years. And oil and gas interests have launched a public relations and lobbying campaig
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Sorry Niki
All the comments about deregulation in the world have less than zero effect on convincing me here.
None of that has any direct impact on the cause of the KNOWN cause of the catastrophe.
Demagogue all you want, it doesn't address the facts.
In the least.
As far as THIS event is concerned, Cheney is every bit a Saint as Mother Teresa or Jesus fuckin' Christ himself.
But keep trying.
" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.
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AT the beginning of the thread you said something real, and true, and straight from the heart.
Quote:What happened?
Just watched the most sobering t.v. I hope to ever watch. Bigger than 9/11.... on the Gulf oil disaster. I can't mince words here folks....it's bad. Beyond what we've been told. Even if the " top kill " attempt works, the damage is far beyond what they're telling us. But the top kill won't work. It'll be August before a 2nd well can be drilled, to finally shut this nightmare down. And that's what it is.... an actual, real life nightmare. Get to the coast and white beaches of the Gulf now, while you can. It'll be the last time in our life time we'll see them like this.
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