Isreal attacks Turkish aid convoy.
POSTED BY: oldenglanddry
UPDATED: Saturday, January 4, 2025 02:51
VIEWED: 7522
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AR: Israel has some odd ideas about what constitutes IT'S waters, compared to what the rest of the world considers its waters.
There have been other incidents when Israel fired on clearly identifiable ships, ships they even had located, mapped, and marked as U.S. ships. Of course, they say it was an accident, but if it was, it was a pretty big fuck-up involving insane miscommunication and extreme incompetence.
Thinking back, I wonder if Israel's many fuck-ups are less the result of active malice, and more the result of hoo-rah complacency with America's shiny toys. Maybe it's like they're saying, "yay, we have the most technologically advanced military forces in our region, we don't have to think anymore."
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mincingbeast: I note that Hezbollah and Hamas are two different organizations. You may or may not have them confused; most media outlets can't get them straight either.
If you meant Hamas, then I retract my statement. I don't actually know THAT much about them, apart from they're a political party that was elected in Palestine. Perhaps they advocate violence against Israel or something, but they themselves don't seem to have the firepower, what violence against Israel there is that happens seems to be independent Palestinian whacko terrorists or Hezbollah.
I don't imagine Hamas would launch a full-scale attack against Israel anymore than I imagine Iran would, despite the respective rhetoric of their leaders.
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Quote:
If this attack happened in Isreali waters then Isreal has the right to board and inspect any vessel they choose. If during their inspection their soldiers were attacked then they have the right to defend themselves.
Sound to me based on the international consensus that this WASN'T Israel's waters, though like I said, Israel has funny ideas about that.
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The video is clear that Isreali soldiers were attacked after they boarded the ship and they opened fire only after suffering a number of injuries and the threat of additional injury, death, or capture. While this alone does not demonstrate right or wrong...it demonstrates reckless disregard by the folks attacking the armed soldiers. It does not take an international law expert to tell you that if your trying to beat to death a guy with a gun...he might shoot you. So on an individual basis I think you can't blame the soldiers who neither overreacted or got out of control.
Hmm, I didn't know that they were armed. I suppose it still goes back to the international waters question. Like you said, if it's in Israel's waters, they do have a right to inspect the boats (though if they're boarding guns out from the get go, I'm wondering if that's not slightly more hostile than the usual understanding of an inspection).
But if it's in international waters, then I'm pretty sure people on a ship being involuntarily boarded have a right to defend themselves against the boarders.
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Activist aid ships head to Gaza AGAIN as Israeli warships gather
http://www.jordantimes.com/?news=27023
A neutron nuke detonated on Tel Aviv will cure this problem. And a roundup of jews in USA for reeducation camps, a ban on the pagan jew religions, arrest and decaptiation of all jew banksters.
Channel 4 Dispatches: The Children Of Gaza (2010)
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=42398
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2010/03/ch4-dispatches-child
ren-of-gaza-2010.html
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=TGQFCGXH
Quote:
US taxdollars at work in Israel
CSPAN caller: "I, for one, am sick and tired of all these Jews coming on C-span and other stations and pushing us to go to war against our Muslim friends. They're willing to spend the last drop of American blood and treasure to get their way in the world. They have way too much power in this country. People like Wolfowitz and Feith and the other neo-cons that jewed us into Iraq; and now we're going to spend the next 60 years rehabilitating our soldiers. I'm sick and tired of it."
CIA agent Michael Scheuer: I think that American foreign policy, of course, is eventually up to the American people. One of the big things that we've not been able to discuss in this country for the last 30 years is our policy towards the Israelis. Whether we want to be involved in fighting Israel's wars in the future is something that Americans should be able to talk about. They may vote yes. They may want to see their kids killed in Iraq or Yemen or somewhere else to protect Israel. But the question is, we need to talk about it. Ultimately Israel as a country is of no particular worth to the United states...strategically - they have no resources we need, their manpower is minimal, their association with us is a negative for the United states. Now that's a fact. What you want to do about that fact is entirely different, but for anyone to stand up in the United states and say that our support for Israel doesn't hurt us in the world - our our support for Hosni Mubarak's dictatorship doesn't hurt us, is to just defy reality."
-CSPAN, 5 Jan 2010
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135427
youtube.com/watch?v=r92wQDmk-RU
Hamas Was Founded by Israeli Mossad
http://www.wariscrime.com/2008/12/29/news/hamas-was-founded-by-mossad/
http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_watson_012703_hamas.html
http://www.democracynow.org/2006/1/26/how_israel_and_the_united_states
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html
The Complete Guide to Killing Non-Jews - by Rabbi Od Yosef Hai Yeshiva, 9 Nov 2009
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/updated-version-of-the-com
plete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/
British court indicts Israeli minister for warcrimes in Gaza
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=41155
Israeli Law of Return only allows citizenship for jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return
It's a felony to preach Christianity in Israel.
http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/christian-persecution-aler
t-messianic-jews-arrested-in-israel/
Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=487412&contrassI
D=2&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
The Life of an American Jew in Racist Marxist Israel Where Christianity Is a Felony
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/israel.htm
Mohel Rabbi Yosef David Weisburg sucking penis during circumcism bris ritual, Jerusalem Post Magazine, Nov. 5, 1976, page 14
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/salafi/KosherTopJobs.htm
"A circumcision ritual practiced by some Orthodox Jews has alarmed city health officials, who say it may have led to three cases of herpes - one of them fatal - in infants. But after months of meetings with Orthodox leaders, city officials have been unable to persuade them to abandon the practice. The practice is known as oral suctiNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Being ignored is why Egypt has a blockade on Gaza too.
Being ignored is why the U.N. called a special meeting over this incident, but nothing on the N.Korea sinking of a S. Korean ship, where many more lives were lost.
There's a distortion going on here, alright.
** ANYONE ** who thinks the Fed Gov't has done " all it possibly can " in response the Gulf Coast oil disaster, or who thinks Obama isn't lying to us all - I have no use for you. You deserve all the animosity and any vulgar "tone" directed your way. ( Anthony , that includes you, buddy. Sorry )
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Byte, I typed Hamas and meant Hamas. That the Palestinians elected Hamas does not speak highly of democratic elections, or the Palestinians (for that matter, Netanyahu's election). I may be a joo, and idiot, but I can at least keep my genocidal groups straight.
Take everything I say with a grain of Kosher salt. I am not an expert on international, but fail to see how the exact location of the flotilla matters so long as it was attempting to run the blockade.
I candidly admit that I do not know the full scope of the blockade, but I have heard complaints that it prevents gaza fishermen from doing their job. That makes the blockade the trouble. Would people really be less offended if this went down a mile from shore?
Anyway, I appreciate those who have resisted hysterical moral preening and faux macho posturing on this issue. I know how hard it is to resist chest thumping when joos are involved.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:Quote:
But if it's in international waters, then I'm pretty sure people on a ship being involuntarily boarded have a right to defend themselves against the boarders.
I assume you're kidding. A ship with a manifest intent to breach an established blockade, that is warned repeatedly, and knee deep in the attempt, is entitled to use violence as part of the attempt by virtue of international waters?
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They can only blockade if it's in THEIR waters (Or the UN approves? I think?), which, as of right now, is in question.
If they're in international waters, I think it's less so much violating Israel law by trying to break the blockade, and more a violation of international law with an unlawful boarding.
If they're in Israel waters, then the situation is as you describe... Though the Israelis still oughta be more careful about shooting people on a boat if the international community is likely to take the side of the people on the boat. I think we both agree: it could have been handled better.
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I do grant the point that it's ridiculous that who is in the right here should be based on something as arbitrary as location.
Personally, my feeling is that the Israelis just wanted to defend their country from gun smuggling, which is understandable (if that's true), and the flotilla just wanted to bring food and medicine to Palestinians. So, if I look at it as both groups had good intentions, then this is just a sad mistake.
I also note that I would really, really appreciate it if Israel stopped MAKING sad mistakes. It'd be good for Israel's image, too, because some people think they're actually doing it on purpose.
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Rappy, that one I give you - I did not expect this to draw any significant attention from the media or the rest of the world but it has, surprisingly.
Here's for hoping the eyes of the world on them encourage a little bit better behavior on behalf of all involved.
As for Korea, well, there's questions about it, and that's really another topic.
-F
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