Isreal attacks Turkish aid convoy.
POSTED BY: oldenglanddry
UPDATED: Saturday, January 4, 2025 02:51
VIEWED: 7522
PAGE 2 of 9
Hello,
What a senseless attack. Indeed, piratical in its execution.
I'm catching up on this from CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/05/31/gaza.protest/index.html?hpt=
T1
"A senior Israeli military official, speaking on condition of anonymity in an independent account cleared by military censors, said Israeli troops were planning to deal with peace activists on a Gaza-bound flotilla, "not to fight.""
This particular quote made me grind my teeth. It's akin to saying, "They were supposed to be defenseless victims of our aggression! How DARE they respond to violence with violence?"
I see that this victimized convoy called itself a 'Freedom Flotilla.' I suppose the Israelis are maintaining their quota of 'attacks on Liberty-themed ships in International waters.'
--Anthony
"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor
"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma
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Yes Anthony, sit back and let the whining commence. I can hear it now, Bill Kristol will go on CNN and complain that Israel has a right to defend itself, a d Joe Lieberman will make an amendment condemning food.
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If the Turkish ship had been torpedoed and sunk by a North Korean sub, the world would be silent as usual.
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Why hello there. As an obligatory Zionist Jew Conspirator, please allow me to attempt to manipulate and misinform you. Brevity is the thing, but brevity fails me.
This incident dramatizes the tragedy of collective punishment. A government and a people are not one in the same. Hamas is a vile organization, but when a Palestinian kid goes without water, Hamas does not feel thirst. The blockade sucks, but I happen to thing that Hamas sucks more. Hamas is an enemy of peace, opposes compromise, and advocates genocide. The aid wasn't being offered to Hamas, but it was offered in a provocative way.
Because Israel enforces a blockade (along with Egypt), it assumes humanitarian responsibilities under international law. Israel provides channels for humanitarian aid to reach Gaza. The flotilla acted outside these channels. Considering the quality of life in Gaza, these channels must be woefully insufficient. Hence, the flotilla.
The damned thing about a blockade, is that you can't let anyone through it, because then it is no loner a blockade. Blockades, like around Gaza, are subject to conditions like notice and impartiality in application. When a blockade is duly established even a neutral metchant vessel may be sunk if it attempts to breach the blockade, or if it refuses an order to stop. There is no international law guaranteeing free passage of humanitarian assistance.
It seems that the Israelis gave the flotilla an opportunity to turn back, and ordered them to stop and threatened to board them repeatedly. This was not a game of chicken, but they absolutely should have turned back. The Israelis shot and killed activists. If the Israeli were responding with proportional force, that's one thing. If they boarded guns blazing, that is something else entirely. Considering that the activists were armed with sticks and so forth, this is an ugly situation. The blockade is a disaster anyway I look at it. But this incident says to me that the blockade sucks, the activists pushed the envelope, and the Israelis are bastards, too. Nothing more.
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"There is no international law guaranteeing free passage of humanitarian assistance."
Hello,
If these ships were boarded in international waters, as has been suggested, then this statement may not be correct. I think international law guarantees free passage of whatever in international waters.
I am waiting for more information on the details of the assault so that I know just how bad this is.
--Anthony
"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor
"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma
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Look, I can see blockin weapons - although I do have issues with the idea of one sovereign government doin that to another outside of a war, mind you.
I can see inspecting ships in ones own waters for contraband, although that brings up other questions about who's waters parts of that are.
But blocking food, water and medical supplies, on purpose, to "punish" an entire nation for the conduct of individuals, and as policy ?
Call it what it is, Genocide.
-Frem
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Egypt also is engaged in this blockade of Gaza. We must be ready to assume it has all the racist, genocidal motives which Israel is being accused.
** ANYONE ** who thinks the Fed Gov't has done " all it possibly can " in response the Gulf Coast oil disaster, or who thinks Obama isn't lying to us all - I have no use for you. You deserve all the animosity and any vulgar "tone" directed your way. ( Anthony , that includes you, buddy. Sorry )
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Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
When a blockade is duly established even a neutral metchant vessel may be sunk if it attempts to breach the blockade, or if it refuses an order to stop. There is no international law guaranteeing free passage of humanitarian assistance
Beast, thank you for your contribution from the perspective of evil conspirators.
I do, however, think that the blockade itself is not the issue here, but rather the fact that the Israelis boarded this ship in international waters. If this had taken place in Israeli territory, I'm sure the reaction would be different, over all.
Does Israel really have the right to block an attempt to breach the blockade that far outside its own territory? Do they have the right to board a ship in international waters? Shouldn't they have waited until the flotilla actually entered their watery turf?
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Egypt also is engaged in this blockade of Gaza. We must be ready to assume it has all the racist, genocidal motives which Israel is being accused.
Ain't no assumption about it, deliberately blocking food, water, and medical supplies is exactly that no matter WHO does it, everyone involved is an accomplice and those supporting it financially and politically are aiding and abetting.
Look, I know Hamas are dicks, and most of their leaders are winding up their people with Israel as the boogeyman *JUST* like the Israeli leaders are winding up their people with Palestine as their boogeyman, that's always been the nature of these things, even back when it was a "gentlemans game" and sniping officers was considered a violation of the rules of war, yadda yadda.
Cutting through the indoctrination and getting the poor souls being wound up as cannon fodder to see that is the only way that game is ever gonna get solved, but that can't happen when no one is gonna listen to us cause of our unquestioning support of one side even when they're clearly in the wrong - for all the talk, the floodgates of money never close an inch, and everyone knows it.
If you'd for just bloody once cut through your own prejudices and realize OUR leaders are winding YOU up the very same way, you'd realize that the only way to stop the slaughter, the only way to ever stem the tide of blood, is to show them all how they're being used, by Hamas, by Likud, and by the international community as well.
All that said...
What Israel has done here, is turn an entire sovereign nation into a concentration camp, and now they mean to starve those people ?
What's next, the showers ?
Just like an abused child often repeats the cycle when they grow up and have children, as a nation and a people, Israel has grown up and in their paranoia and fear, become the very same type of oppressors they once suffered under the heel of, and it shames me as an american that our country supports it when they ought to know better.
Trying to block weapons shipments, I can see the logic of it - I don't agree, mind you, because Israel is non stop taking their land, and doesn't want them defending themselves, and gee that sounds familiar too, does it not ?
But blocking humanitarian and relief supplies is completely inhuman and unacceptable by any moral standard worth the name - inspecting for contraband, that can be worked out, although better done by a neutral (or close as possible to such) party than anyone involved directly, poltically or financially, but still, at least the pretense is logical - but no one, NO ONE, has the moral right to decide an entire country should starve when people are willing to send supplies to prevent it, not Israel, not us, not the UN...
NO DAMN BODY.
And if that's how this is gonna play, if that blockade is gonna be the camp fence, and those cat D-9s are gonna be diggin mass graves for the malnourished dead...
I know some cubans familar with blockade runnin, and damn good at it, who'd be more than happy to stick a pin or two in an ally of the USA, and I am pretty sure that nutter Chavez would be right behind them - are those the folk who you'd prefer the Palestinians seeing as their heros, dude ?
Someone should man up and say "This is wrong!" - and that shoulda been us, and here we are, supporting it...
Ain't about being being *politically* right or wrong, this is about being HUMANE, and if we support this madness, we got no claim to that assumption.
-Frem
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
If these ships were boarded in international waters, as has been suggested, then this statement may not be correct. I think international law guarantees free passage of whatever in international waters.
It depends. I'm not sure Isreal is signed onto an agreement of this nature. Many countries have not.
I remind you that we blockaded Cuba during the missile crisis, we also blockaded Iraq 1991-2003. In the process we interdicted ships thought to be carrying weapons or illegal oil. That is similar to what Isreal is doing.
The video is clear that Isreali soldiers were attacked after they boarded the ship and they opened fire only after suffering a number of injuries and the threat of additional injury, death, or capture. While this alone does not demonstrate right or wrong...it demonstrates reckless disregard by the folks attacking the armed soldiers. It does not take an international law expert to tell you that if your trying to beat to death a guy with a gun...he might shoot you. So on an individual basis I think you can't blame the soldiers who neither overreacted or got out of control.
The question is, should the Isrealis have been there in the first place?
If this attack happened in Isreali waters then Isreal has the right to board and inspect any vessel they choose. If during their inspection their soldiers were attacked then they have the right to defend themselves.
If this attack happened in international waters, then I'm not sure how it works. My understanding is that Isreal broadcast its intent to anyone who'd listen. These ships chose to run the blockade setting up a confrontation with a military force. In essence Isreal reacted to their attempt to run the blockade, they responded with force and Isreali soldiers defended themselves.
If the blockade was legal, then the ships are in the wrong for putting themselves in position to be intercepted and then resisting when boarded. If the blockade was illegal, then Isreal is in the wrong regardless of how the interception turned out.
Quote:
I am waiting for more information on the details of the assault so that I know just how bad this is.
No need for that. Isreal is always guilty. Just like American police. Details and facts have no place in this discussion. I'm shocked you even suggested it.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I find those statements amazing." Niki2, 2010.
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