It's worse than we know

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, August 29, 2025 14:55
VIEWED: 15311
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AURAPTOR

Friday, May 28, 2010 1:04 AM

See?

Proved me right, once again.

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

KWICKO

Friday, May 28, 2010 1:45 AM

Actually, I think you proved ME right with some of your other posts, where you seem to lay the blame solidly at the feet of BP, and express doubts that even they can do anything to stop the spill, despite Obama ordering them to "plug the damn hole". Hell, you even seem to be blaming BP for taking too long, and for hindering the efforts of others to contain the spill.

So, if BP can't do it, how exactly do you expect Obama to do it? I know you think he's the Messiah, but I keep reminding you, he's really just one man. He doesn't have super powers, no mater what you think. Since you seem to have all the answers, what's YOUR plan for stopping the spill? Lay it out; I'll pass it along to the President, and you can take credit for making him do something.

Deal?

So let's hear your plan.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

ANTHONYT

Friday, May 28, 2010 2:18 AM

Quote:

"For years, the oil and gas industry has leveraged such power that they have effectively been allowed to regulate themselves," Obama said. He said U.S. laws were "tailored by the industry to serve their needs instead of the public's," giving short shrift to environmental concerns.

Watch Obama talk about the government's role

After a monthlong review of the industry, he announced his administration was suspending dozens of drilling projects, canceling plans to open new parts of the Gulf of Mexico and the Virginia coast to exploration and suspending new deepwater permits for another six months.

Obama also defended his administration's response to the disaster, telling reporters that people who accuse it of being too slow to respond "don't know the facts."

"It doesn't mean it's going to happen right away or the way I'd like it to happen. It doesn't mean that we're not going to make mistakes," he said. "But there shouldn't be any confusion here: The federal government is fully engaged, and I'm fully engaged."

Hello,

I just read this in an article on CNN. It makes me hopeful. It seems clear that there is going to be a policy shift in regards to oil extraction and regulating the industry.

For the record, I think any industry capable of creating a national disaster needs to be closely monitored and regulated. Part of that regulation needs to address safety measures. The other part of that regulation needs to address safety failures. Or more succinctly, "What happens when all of your active safety measures don't work?"

Some reactors are built so that an utter failure of the reactor automatically causes it to commit suicide safely. Perhaps a similar tactic can be applied to oil drilling?

I think we may also need to consider legislation that uncaps industry liability in the event of a disaster. Unlimited damage ought to mean unlimited liability.

I consider this to be fair Libertarian practice. If you're going to engage in activity that could destroy your neighbors, then they have a vested interest in what you are doing. It's one of those magic lines where their freedom to live intersects your freedom to do what you want. It's the important difference between, "A government concerned with preserving our freedoms" and "no government interference whatsoever." I don't think Libertarianism ought to be the latter. Everyone's freedom matters, or no one's freedom matters, as Frem is apt to say on other topics.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad

AURAPTOR

Friday, May 28, 2010 2:26 AM

TAMPA - The discovery in the depths of the Gulf of Mexico was so unsettling University of South Florida marine scientists ran two tests this week just to make sure.

Data from an array of instruments was conclusive: a team on board the USF research vessel Weatherbird II had discovered a vast new plume of oil about 3,300 feet beneath the waves.

The blob, more than 6 miles wide, is stretching inland toward the shallower waters off Alabama, where many fish and other species reproduce, said David Hollander, associate professor of chemical oceanography at USF.

"I really think we are going to find more and more of those" he said of the underwater plumes of oil. "That is the big unknown at this point.".

He said that with the amount of dispersants being unleashed on the gusher in the Gulf, such a plume was inevitable.

"There is no free ride," Clark said. "That dispersant has to go somewhere."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37387452

Earth that was....

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

KWICKO

Friday, May 28, 2010 4:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Earth that was....

Yeah, before gigantic oil companies, drunk on power and cheap rum and high on meth, ran rampant through the halls of power, giving wedgies and buzzcuts to anyone who tried to stand in their way, and before they decided to blow off all the regulations and safety procedures and just fuck the planet all to hell.

I know where they can get a great deal on a lightly-used "Mission Accomplished!" banner.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

SIGNYM

Friday, May 28, 2010 4:25 AM

Rappy, I really understand your desperation and pain on this one, and so do Niki and a lot of other people. The disaster is so horrific, so heart-rending, that we all want something... anything... to be done.

So maybe sand bars islands should have been constructed to protect the marshes, but the REAL problem is underwater, and the only solution is to STOP THE LEAK. And that, the government has NO expertise, or material, or deepwater equipment. It's not that the government is good at "nothing". The government is good at a LOT of things, but this just isn't one of them. And being a technical government person, I can tell you that there is no substitute for experience and expertise.... and THAT you can't just create at a moment's notice!

The best thing the government could have done would be to simply BAN DRILLING in environmentally sensitive area... or at least ban drilling unless the oil company has a credible, fully-tested disaster plan, equipment, and materials in place. Because SOME disasters are simply too large, too irrecoverable, to be allowed to take place. That is where the common good conflicts with the right to a profit, and the government SHOULD be representing the common good because the companies CANNOT.

As far as what the Fed government is doing with all the money it gets? It's waging war in faraway and mostly irrelevant places, playing global cop when global development would create more security.

KWICKO

Friday, May 28, 2010 4:37 AM

Quote:
As far as what the Fed government is doing with all the money it gets? It's waging war in faraway and mostly irrelevant places, playing global cop when global development would create more security.

YOU TAKE THAT BACK!

That's unfair and totally biased.

They're not playing global cop; they're fighting for freedom. Specifically, they're fighting for BP's freedom to spill oil over there, so they don't have to spill it over here. Free marketeers envision a world in which anyone can spill anything at any time - and someone will still find a way to make a buck off it and blame it on the government! Hey, it's the American Way™ (now manufactured in China, the Chinese Way™, at a cost of $0.02 apiece)

NIKI2

Friday, May 28, 2010 5:11 AM

Yes, Anthony, they have suits and stuff...they won’t let people wear them without a good bit of training, and since they bring in their own people, they’re the ones who get the suits. As I posted about our oil spills, we were only allowed to come clean up with the hazmat guys had left behind, and even then were provided with over-shoe boots and gloves and given lectures, etc. NOT something to mess with! And you’ll note, if you heard, that some of the HAZMAT guys were taken to hospital today, so even that doesn’t keep you truly safe.

Quote:
Has BP explained to you how their "safe" plans all went to hell so quickly? I mean, you seem to think they have such a firm grip on things. Tell us all again why more than a month later, they still haven't made any progress in capping their well that they fucked up so badly.

Bang on. Easy to shoot one’s mouth off when there’s no responsibility attached. Especially for some people.

Crappy, I recognize and sympathize deeply with your shock and anger; most of us share it. But:

Quote:
At least BP can explain what is going on.

See above by Mike, and no, BP may be ABLE to explain stuff, but they’re not DOING it...they fought like hell to keep the feed from the camera from going public, lied about how much oil was coming out (still are, actually), initially lied to say there WAS no spill, and on and on.

Quote:
Haven't made any progress ? I was under the impression they HAD made pretty good progress on capping the well. At least, as of 2 hrs ago.

If you believe that...well, I’ve got this big, pretty, orange bridge just ten miles away I’d like to sell you... They gave the top kill only a 60-70% chance of working in the first place, and odds are it WON’T. Even if it does, it’s a month after the spill, you consider that “efficient”?!?! They signed documents saying sure, they could fix anything that happened, KNOWING they couldn’t having EXPERIENCED situations—not this deep—where they couldn’t; they ignored multiple warning signs for increased profit which would have PREVENTED this in the first place. Put your faith in BP if you want, but the truth is, they don’t know what they’re doing and they won’t tell anyone what they DO know.

You really can’t grasp reality, Crappy. I put up a thread detailing what the government/Obama have done so far, which of course you’ll find some reason to ignore or attack, but you’re wrong about “failure to act”...what DID happen to “it’s not about Obama”? HIS failure, right, not the governments, even tho’ both ARE acting and HAVE BEEN acting all along. Back to your fantasy world little one, find a video of some imaginary “hero” who’s gonna save the day...I think he wears a cape or something, stick his fist in, voila!

Quote:
The coast are barren, empty, void of any activity. Don't believe me ? Ask Bobby Jindal. Ask Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser. Ask James Carville. They're down there. They're knee deep in the oil. You're a liar, and so is Obama. Straight up.

There's nothing you can say, there's no quip you can offer, no evasion you can toss out that'll distract America from what's really going on, right now.

To begin with, those three aren't knee deep in the oil, that's untrue. Second, the coasts aren’t "barren, empty, void of any activity". Some areas are, more will be, but that’s the most absurd statement you’ve made all day! The MSM covers stories: If it bleeds, it leads. They’re showing the worst, as they do in any disaster, but it doesn’t mean the entire coast is dead...yet. Will be, in large part, certainly, but you just swallow whatever’s handed to you, don’t you? America doesn’t need to be distracted, most of it IS, with their own small lives, and politicians are distracted with their careers, their party—-you have heard them bitching about how we need to drill MORE to make up for what this has lost, and how the cap can’t be raised because it might put “mom and pop” oil companies out of business??

Jindal asked for MORE of what he needs, not SOME.

NIKI2

Friday, May 28, 2010 5:16 AM

Sig is right:

Quote:
Rappy, I really understand your desperation and pain on this one, and so do Niki and a lot of other people. The disaster is so horrific, so heart-rending, that we all want something... anything... to be done.

and

Quote:
The best thing the government could have done would be to simply BAN DRILLING in environmentally sensitive area... or at least ban drilling unless the oil company has a credible, fully-tested disaster plan, equipment, and materials in place. Because SOME disasters are simply too large, too irrecoverable, to be allowed to take place. That is where the common good conflicts with the right to a profit, and the government SHOULD be representing the common good because the companies CANNOT.

Those are things us "tree huggers" have been hollering about for DECADES, warning about for decades, PLEADING about for decades. For Johnny-come-latelies who were all for drilling all along to suddenly now be bitching because the federal government can't clean up private enterprise's messes is one of the saddest ironies going...except that once it's over, they'll go right back to demanding more drilling, while we tree huggers sit and weep, and wait for the next one (as we've been doing ever since the Exxon Valdez).

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10