It's worse than we know
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, August 29, 2025 14:55
VIEWED: 15311
PAGE 7 of 25
Quote:
"Should he go there with a pail, shovel, and a spray bottle of Fantastik?"
Hello,
Thousands of them... but there *should* be armies of people on the ground cleaning what can be cleaned, saving the animals that can be saved, putting up barriers that can be erected, etc.
The affected areas should be experiencing an invasion of assistance.
I hope he dispatches that aid presently.
You can't even begin large-scale clean-up operations until the leak is stopped....otherwise any efforts now will just be wastes of time and resources that will be needed later on. That's where Obama has a chance to shine....in the clean-up phase. He's pretty much helpless now, at the mercy of the oil industry "experts".
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"You can't even begin large-scale clean-up operations until the leak is stopped....otherwise any efforts now will just be wastes of time and resources that will be needed later on. That's where Obama has a chance ti shine....in the clean-up phase. He's pretty much helpless now, at the mercy of the oil industry "experts">"
Hello,
I contest that nothing can presently be done. An ounce of crude collected is one ounce less in the total sum of all crude that will ever be deposited on site. There is a finite amount of oil that will be spilled on our shores. We don't know what that finite amount will be, but starting to collect it as soon as possible just means getting a jump start on the final sum. Whether that final sum ends up being one million or one billion or one trillion barrels of oil, each scoop of the stuff removed is one less scoop to be removed.
There's also a need for animal rescue and the erection of physical barriers to limit contamination.
Even if I was to believe that somehow no one can start cleaning right away (even though I see no reason why not) I'd still want to see massive teams assembled on site and ready to engage as soon as the go-order is given. A military-scale deployment to counter our largest chemical weapons attack ever. A chemical weapons attack launched by the gross negligence of an oil company.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"You can't even begin large-scale clean-up operations until the leak is stopped....otherwise any efforts now will just be wastes of time and resources that will be needed later on. That's where Obama has a chance ti shine....in the clean-up phase. He's pretty much helpless now, at the mercy of the oil industry "experts">"
Hello,
I contest that nothing can presently be done. An ounce of crude collected is one ounce less in the total sum of all crude that will ever be deposited on site. There is a finite amount of oil that will be spilled on our shores. We don't know what that finite amount will be, but starting to collect it as soon as possible just means getting a jump start on the final sum. Whether that final sum ends up being one million or one billion or one trillion barrels of oil, each scoop of the stuff removed is one less scoop to be removed.
There's also a need for animal rescue and the erection of physical barriers to limit contamination.
Even if I was to believe that somehow no one can start cleaning right away (even though I see no reason why not) I'd still want to see massive teams assembled on site and ready to engage as soon as the go-order is given. A military-scale deployment to counter our largest chemical weapons attack ever. A chemical weapons attack launched by the gross negligence of an oil company.
--Anthony
When it's snowing, you wait until the snow stops before your start shoveling your way out to the driveway. Same thing here. You don't want to spend money and resources now on cleaning some marsh land, then have to do it again, and again; the same areas cleaned multiple times. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. These "top-water" skimmers and boons are not going to have a significant effect on the overall largess of this disaster. The oil is thick and deep, and has already shown that it will simply go around and beneath the containment apparatus.
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Anthony, I think you're falling into Rappy's trap, and assuming that because you don't see it on TV, it's not happening.
Are there ENOUGH people working cleanup in the salt marshes and swampland? Hardly. But as much as anything, I bet it's simply not having the needed equipment. Not "not having it on site or on hand" - I'm talking simply not having it, because not enough of these kinds of vehicles exist or are available.
This is swampland. You can't just drive out there and start cleaning up. In places, you have to hike, wade, take a shallow-draft boat, for MILES before you get where you're going. And in lots of these places, I bet the water's so shallow that bigger ships simply can't get close in to the shore and swamp at all.
So you'll have small boats with flat bottoms, propelled by poles and small motors (when they aren't getting tangled in swamp reeds), and you're using these tiny vessels and one or two people on them to try and clean up a spill larger than West Virginia. You can DO it, but you're not going to see quick results on TV. There are probably going to be new kinds of shallow-water boats outfitted and invented for just this disaster, but it's going to take time.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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Kwicko: Air toxins. That's the nasty thing that many people don't know about oil and hydrocarbon products. They are CRAZY volatile. They're classified as "Volatile Organic Carbons."
And stuff you find in crude oil, like benzene, toluene, napthalene, etc., those are seriously toxic.
I also clearly remember hearing that some kind of barriers were put up to try to protect the wildlife preserves, though it doesn't surprise me if they were ineffective. It's a catastrophic spill and it just gets everywhere. It's not easy to fight.
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Coming in wayyy late, but I get the gist. First: Did I or did I not tell you? It was obvious to anyone who's experienced these things that this was going to kill the Coast, and much, much more.
I'll read all the posts and respond to some (my gawd, 68!), but the first things I want to say are:
--Quit blaming the government. A government is a huge, monstrous beast that moves slowly and is very cumbersome. And inept. And nobody ever imagined something like this.
--How about the fact that it is some people here's precious PRIVATE ENTERPRISE that caused this? I'm sure it's already gone around and around, but the simple fact is, BP put profits ahead of EVERYTHING...had many warning signs, chose to ignore them, finegaled their way into permits by lying, etc. So much for "self-policing" of big business.
--Obama has little or nothing to do with this. He has given all the commands he can to get things moving, what exactly do people want him to personally DO?? His hands are tied by how much he can interfere in private enterprise, remember? He can't just magically make BP do what's necessary, and he'd be blocked by the right wing from doing drastic things like taking over.
--What needs to be done is those tankers brought in which can skim the oil off the surface. From what I heard, they're sitting somewhere, full of oil, waiting for the price to go up to unload their cargo. Exactly what is Obama or the government supposed to do? Take them over forceably? Unless/until that happens, this thing is going to swing around Florida and go right up the East Coast. That's my prediction now...wait and see.
--There are already calls of bringing BP up on charges. Good. I hope they do.
--As for capping the well, I got as far as the post about the relief wells, and that's the only guaranteed thing to work: August. Check out the gusher in Australia...or there was another in the Gulf that took NINE MONTHS to cap. Get used to it.
--The Coast IS dead. I told you a couple of weeks ago it was. Check out Prince William Sound twenty years later, it's really easy to google. This will never be "fixed". Get used to it.
--Chris Matthews is NOT a die-hard Obama supporter, nor is CNN. Sure, they both lean that way, but Matthews takes Obama to task on a regular basis--he's a middle-of-the-roader. Because he's been ragging on the Republicans and Tea Party is because they have been behaving absurdly, they deserve ragging on, that's why it's seemed like he's an Obama supporter. Don't be fooled into thinking CNN and MSNBC and so forth are as blindly partisan as FauxNews. They're not.
Now perhaps you understand why this bleeding-heart liberal has been crying over this long before much of anyone else had any idea how bad it was going to be. I knew, and so did a few others here I'd bet. So now the rest of America is beginning to get an idea. Welcome to my world.
That's it for now. No doubt I've duplicated others. I'll read the rest of the thread now, I was just so struck by the "omigawd" of what I already knew was coming and the screams at Obama that I needed to say my piece.
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
... Mr. Raptor and his political brethren aren't looking for a discussion. They are making noise.
But that's fine. Canary in the mine shaft, only louder. It gets people moving and shaking.
Now you know what AZ is doing - you make noise, you push boundaries, you do something controversial, you do whatever it takes to be heard amongst all the other noise. Politics as usual.
Fwiw, just got this:
'Top Kill' Effort Seems to Be Working, U.S. Says Cautiously
The latest effort to plug a gushing underwater oil well in
the Gulf of Mexico appeared to be working, officials and
engineers said on Thursday morning, though definitive word on
its success was still hours away.
At the same time, government experts said that the flow of
oil from the well, which has been gushing since an explosion
and fire wrecked a drilling rig in late April, was several
times worse than the preliminary estimate by BP, the oil
company responsible for the rig and the well.
And The Associated Press reported on Thursday that the head
of the agency responsible for regulating offshore oil
drilling had been dismissed.
Read More:
http://www.nytimes.com
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's not so much anti-Obama, but anti Federal Gov't. It's inept beyond comprehension.
There are literally no haz-mat boats, workers, ANYTHING going on in the wetlands.
Where there should be boaters, fisherman and birds, there is nothing.
Nothing but dead grass and oil soaked wetlands.
It's quiet. Still. Dead.
And it's only going to get worse.
A lot worse.
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
The best part are the federal bureaucracy and regulations that prevent LA from building a fucking barrier island to protect its shores....You are correct this is not anti-Obama. This is big government's red tape that is slowing down what needs to be done.
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The best part are the federal bureaucracy and regulations that prevent LA from building a fucking barrier island to protect its shores....You are correct this is not anti-Obama. This is big government's red tape that is slowing down what needs to be done.
Hello,
I sincerely hope all that big government red tape can be removed from Louisiana and used instead to tie up BP in a pretty red bow as a gift to all the people of the coast.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad
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Okay, I'm caught up:
Yes, the wetlands are essentially dead. Now that it’s hit the them and marshes, those are dead forever. I posted the details of why, but I assume few if any cared to read it. The ecosystem of the wetlands is delicate and involves many, many creatures, including man.
I’d like to know specifically what those bitching about Obama and the government would like them to DO. Specifically. These guys know the truth:Quote:
Essentially: Byte is right, 100%
Interior Secretary Ken Salazar's public threat to BP (BP) on Sunday that the federal government might take over the cleanup of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill made headlines around the world. Too bad it's not a realistic scenario.
The federal government lacks the expertise and the technology to manage the cleanup effort, according to environmental groups. Like it or not, the government can't contain the worst environmental disaster in U.S. history without BP, a fact that Salazar no doubt knew when he said, "If we find that they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing, we'll push them out of the way appropriately."
Salazar is certainly not alone in his frustration at the slow pace of the cleanup and containment of the spill that followed the April 20 explosion on the Gulf of Mexico drilling platform, which killed 11 workers and threatens to decimate the economies of the Gulf States. But the former senator runs the risk of angering residents of the affected areas by making promises that he can't keep. Even environmental groups that have been critical of BP don't advocate the federal government's takeover of the cleanup effort.
See full article from DailyFinance: http://srph.it/c423HQ
Anthony’s also right; as citizens, it’s our responsibility to help, too. If the American people were mobilized, a lot could be accomplished. You know now why it drives me MAD that I can’t get down there to help. Anyone who can should do so...if I had the money I’d be there in an instant. Anyone who wants to do something besides bitching and moaning and blaming Obama and the government: http://www.gulfoilspilljobs.com/ Make some money even, and there’s no waivers to sign.
Crappy wouldn’t be “sucking Bush’s dick” if this happened; whatever he is, even Crappy would be pissed about this, once he understood the facts of what’s happening/will happen. I give him that much credit. At the same time, Crappy, why should we watch as you push us to do? Most of us already KNOW everything there is to know about it, and get our information minute by minute, if we care to. There’s been a lot of good coverage on it all along, just many aren’t paying attention or, in my case, can only take it in bits and pieces because we already KNOW. And tho’ you say it’s about the government, not Obama, it’s obvious every time you come in that for you it IS about Obama. How about looking at how regulations were changed while Dumbya was in office, about how the mentality of the entire government became lax with regard to the oil industry, about how we’re STILL SUBSIDIZING that industry? You can blame Obama for not cleaning up a mess CREATED by the Bush administration all you want, but it’s not hindsight and it’s not absolving Obama of blame: IT IS FACT that all this came about largely because of Dumbya’s and Cheney’s ties to Big Oil and everything they did and the mentality within government they created. Obama can only deal with the aftermath.
I never said fur was the best way to clean up ANYTHING, idiot...that snark was stupid. I responded to a post put up here that donating clean hair/fur is a way to help, which I’d already heard about from one of the husky kennels I know locally. Why in hell wouldn’t we do anything, however small, to help, you asshole?
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusi
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