It's worse than we know
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, August 29, 2025 14:55
VIEWED: 15311
PAGE 9 of 25
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As for scrubbing rocks, dear gawd no! You seriously DO need training, and boots and gloves and stuff, just to clean beaches. It truly is toxic stuff, and probably if you walked out to an oil-covered beach to scrub, a dozen people would run up to stop you and tell you how dangerous it is!
Yeah, and respiratory junk too. I know people who won't deal with crude oil or benzene unless they have Type A personal protective equipment, that's those hazmat suits with the SCBA.
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On to respond to others things:
Anthony, it’s not about whether we care about a fight with the Repubs. The fight would be there, and I don’t think Obama could win, is what I was saying. The 1200 troops is a perfect example, McCain is screaming it should be 6000...how many do you think the Repubs would be wiling to send to the Gulf?Quote:
You misunderstood. I was referring to capping the well in the first part, cleanup in the second; they’re not in opposition to one another. HUMANS are needed for cleanup, scientists, experts and BP are the only ones who can cap it.
But it is disingenuous to say, "No one has the expertise except BP" in one breath and then "why don't you get down there" in the next breath.
SGG: You’re right on the money. It’s the Exxon all over, times who knows how much. They are still litigating over that, by the way, it didn’t stop in 2009. And Prince William Sound, as I itemized in another thread, will never be the same. The fishermen moved or took up other occupations. Oil can still be found on beaches far from where it leaked. The ecosystem has changed...forever. The same will happen in the Gulf, and the Eastern Seaboard if it gets that far. You are probably right that BP is dragging its feet hoping America WILL take over, and that they’d litigate it forever.
I don’t believe, however, that it will backfire on the Repubs to fight Obama doing anything. They’ve done stuff like that many times and not paid for it. People have short memories, depending on how much of the country it affects. Do bear in mind there are still Repubs out there saying we need to drill MORE to make up for the lost money, and the move to raise the cap on damages is being fought because “mom and pop” oil companies would go bust...the arguments will be found to justify fighting, trust me.
Re: Government bailouts. They probably wouldn’t get them, given their profit ratio. We DO, however, still SUBSIDIZE the oil industry, remember! Taking over the well until restitution is made is a waste, in my opinion. Their profits are SO high from so many wells, they wouldn’t give a shit and would probably consider it the better alternative to being on the hook for damages.
Yes, Halliburton was the company working on the cementing which might have caused the initial problem. There were many others, and they had a lot of warning (multiple warnings!), but Halliburton has screwed up at other drilling platforms where what they did is being litigated as the cause for the “release” (I refuse to call it a “spill”, it’s a gusher if nothing else!). And of course that’s why Darth is keeping a low profile. In time he’ll come up with something to blame Obama about, but for now I think his connection to Halliburton and Big Oil may be a leeetle bit too close to the surface to want us reminded about him! Not that we haven’t been; the secret meeting he had with the oil companies while VP has been back in the news. It’ll fade.
Yup, damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t, you pegged it. Actually, he/they ARE doing something, it’s more like “damned if he doesn’t do MORE, damned if he spends money doing MORE, and damned if he doesn’t”.
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
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Originally posted by Niki2:
Anthony, you're a doll. Thanx for the offer, but better, since I don't think enough people would come on board, put the 5% away this month. If enough people pony up the money, I'll go, but I doubt it--so anyone who wants to contribute, put the money aside; if there's not enough in a month or so for me to go, donate it to those who are THERE! I can give you all the links you want and you can choose the group you want to contribute to.
San Francisco, CA (SFO) to New Orleans, LA (MSY)
Lowest Economy/Coach Fares published for travel between May 2010 and September 2010
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American is the cheapest at $258 - shockingly low imho.
I'd bet Anthony could bump up his contribution, maybe $50? You can put me down for the $58. That's 3 others at $50. You have to promise to take plenty of videos and put them on youtube though (so Wulf can see what activism is).
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Byte: I wish someone would shout about the things you're enumerating. Surely it could be looked into...
You're right about breathing and hazmat suits. We weren't allowed to clean the beaches where it was thick, only the trained guys in hazmat suits with breathing apparatus were. We were allowed to clean up AFTER them, get the residual stuff and work on beaches where it wasn't thick, but you need equipment and training to do the heavy cleanup.
I sure wish we could know whether anyone was pursuing the options you've suggested. Hell, if what you're describing is something like Dawn, betcha their makers would donate TONS of it--they'd get great press, better than they do now with how much of it is used in wildlife cleanup!
Trouble is "we" don't KNOW what all is being done. I wish we did--not the MSM, hell, they get most of what they report off the wire, and/or get it wrong. A perfect example is the CA-AZ pissing contest; it was a non-story, and the MSM dropped it as soon as it'd run it's course of "weirdness" and they realized nothing would happen. But they nonetheless picked it up nationally at first.
But some source we could trust, someone who was monitoring ALL the various methods being used/tried...I'd love to know, and I'd love to hear people like you chime in, people who KNOW something about the issue! If wishes were horses...
"There's no quick fix, no engineering miracle. This is why it's better to not pollute in the first place." Boy, you got that right...in spades. If only all of us "canaries in the mine" had been listened to...water under the bridge. Maybe we'll be listened to at least MORE now...? Hahahahaha.
At least I finally have something to thank our Govenator for, for the first time. He's working with Oregon and Washington on a PERMANENT moratorium on ANY drilling off our Coast. My heart goes out to those in the Gulf...
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
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Oh, Pizmo, you're a doll too. What a dream it could be... And I had no idea it was that little! I still don't think it can happen, I don't think enough people here would/could chip in. But I'm not averse to keeping it going for a bit to find out.
That's $50 from Pizmo, a guaranteed $12.5 from Anthony. Let's see where it goes. I won't know until July 1 how much I could pitch in, maybe $50-75 probably, I'm pretty far behind. But I'd do it, fer shore. And I have no DOUBT it'll still be going on then!
As to video, I could take lots of pictures (time permitting), but all I have is a little Olympus point-and-shoot, which does take videos and I would, they just won't be terribly good. If it were made possible, I'd do anything anyone wanted, as long as I could spend most of my time working. Hey, I can dream!
And to hell with the WulfWind, he'd diss it or find some conspiracy or something to bitch about...it'd be for the rest of you, 'cuz you'd have made it possible!
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
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Until I hear someone here actually willing to GO THERE and help, this is all bullshit debate, partisanship, guesswork, and finger pointing. if we love our Coasts, WE should be there helping, not bitching that the government isn’t doing enough, not pressuring the government to do things THEY WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO DO by their counterparts in the legislature, even if there were something they COULD do to have a real impact. The people THERE working are those people like to call the “tree huggers”. They’re there in quantity, doing what they can, and we screamed long and loud for ages before this happened that it could happen. Nobody was listening; we were dismissed as doom-sayers. WE were the “canary in the mineshaft”, but when the canary dies and nobody notices, what good does it do?
And don't forget, Niki, that Wulfie has been kind enough to offer to round up all those "tree huggers" and wipe them out, thinking he'd be doing the world some great favor by doing so.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"You suggestion about the government mobilizing left out one big thing: The Republicans will fight it all the way."
Hello,
Ask me if I care a fig about the rough fight with the Republicans. My television has been filled with a rough fight against the Republicans all year, but the admin believed the cause was worth fighting for.
It is right for most people to want something done about this, Niki. And no, most people who are gainfully employed can't afford to surrender their livelihoods to take a trip to the coast. If I could afford to be at the coast, I'd have been there already. In Florida, with my family, for purely selfish reasons. Long before any spill occurred.
But it is disingenuous to say, "No one has the expertise except BP" in one breath and then "why don't you get down there" in the next breath.
Clearly, much of the work to be done requires little or no expertise. I remember the Exxon cleanup. A bunch of people with rags cleaning rocks. Scooping mud. Washing birds with dish soap. I'm sure someone directing the efforts had expertise, but I'm equally sure hundreds of coast cleaners didn't graduate from Oil University.
And how many of them got sick? And how many of them died from their illnesses, while Exxon fought in court to keep from paying any of the costs of that disaster? No offense, Anthony, but if you're asking me to volunteer to wade into toxic waste with no protection and no training, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to volunteer to pay my medical bills for the rest of my life. Deal?
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I read the other day that 1200 troops were being moved to inspect the Mexican border. This, in response to Arizona's hot air. How many Federal employees can we spare for the Gulf's Black Sea?
1200 fewer, now that they've been deployed to Arizona.
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Already employed, already available, some of them actually trained in hazardous materials procedures. And if the experts at BP need to direct a force of thousands of amateurs about the best ways to scoop up oil, that's fine, too.
It's not like scooping snow off your driveway, where the object is to make a path. Of course you don't want to shovel a path only to have the path obscured again. But when you are shoveling snow off your sidewalk, the object isn't to remove the largest quantity of snow possible. When you're scooping oil off the beach, that IS the object. To just remove oil for the sake of removing oil, because oil is toxic, and every ounce is an ounce closer to the finish, even if more oil is still streaming in.
Now, while I can't quit my job and jaunt off to Louisiana, I'm happy to chip in for those that don't live under my restrictions. I get paid on Friday. Drop me a line, Nicky, and I'll paypal you the first 5 percent of your fare. Twenty people do that, and you're on your way.
And if you still don't have enough by next payday, I'll chip in again. And I'll keep chipping in every payday. Because that is something I *can* do from here.
And I kind of like the idea of sending a Browncoat from our community to reach out to theirs, even in a small way.
Hell, I'm in for that. Except for the PayPal part. Never liked dealing with them. They have a bad habit of making money in your account simply disappear when you try to get to it.
Let me know what I can do to help. I don't have much, but I also don't spend much on gas. ;)
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SGG: Thanks! And yes, BP *will* fight actually paying any of the costs of this. You can take that to the bank.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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Mike, if you're serious, pledge what you can in the "Senda Browncoat to the Gulf" thread. We're up to $75 from you guys, with hopefully another $50-75 from me first of July, toward a $250 ticket. More info in that thread.
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
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Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Anthony, you're a doll. Thanx for the offer, but better, since I don't think enough people would come on board, put the 5% away this month. If enough people pony up the money, I'll go, but I doubt it--so anyone who wants to contribute, put the money aside; if there's not enough in a month or so for me to go, donate it to those who are THERE! I can give you all the links you want and you can choose the group you want to contribute to.
San Francisco, CA (SFO) to New Orleans, LA (MSY)
Lowest Economy/Coach Fares published for travel between May 2010 and September 2010
Any applicable discounts will be added after you choose your flights.
American is the cheapest at $258 - shockingly low imho.
I'd bet Anthony could bump up his contribution, maybe $50? You can put me down for the $58. That's 3 others at $50. You have to promise to take plenty of videos and put them on youtube though (so Wulf can see what activism is).
Okay, you can put me down for $50.
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