Mal's religious beliefs

POSTED BY: Wagneraude
UPDATED: Monday, May 31, 2010 16:53
VIEWED: 6124
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PENGUIN

Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:35 PM

I heard it yesterday. It's very faint. You really have to turn up the sound.

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NCBROWNCOAT

Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wagneraude:

The only Jewish reference I recall in the entire 'verse came w/ Mr Universe and his wedding.

Not so much w/ Mal, who clearly kissed the cross he wore on a chain around his neck , in the pilot episode.

Amnon, in The Message, who somebody in the commentary refers to as " the only Jew in outer space."

As to kissing the cross, I've always thought of that as a Catholic thing.

And gotta remember, it's 500 years in the future, on planets far, far away. No telling how various demoninations might have evolved and combined. Maybe what's left is a mixture of beliefs and rituals.

I was maybe thinking some sort of Episcopal/Anglican type of mishmash of Catholicism and Protestantism. Especially since there are still monastic orders (like the one Shepard Book belongs to).

And of course there would be many other local Christian sects around the 'Verse.

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FEARTHEBUNNYMAN

Sunday, May 23, 2010 4:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wagneraude:
It seems very few people actually heard the line, I assure you, if you watch the end of Trash, as Wash walks away with zoe (around 43 minutes in) he says "Zoe, he's Jewish"

Maybe he's a Jew for Jesus ;)

AURAPTOR

Sunday, May 23, 2010 4:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wagneraude:
It seems very few people actually heard the line, I assure you, if you watch the end of Trash, as Wash walks away with zoe (around 43 minutes in) he says "Zoe, he's Jewish"

Saw it, again, and sure enough, very faintly, he says something to that effect. Had to crank up the volume all the way, just to pick it up.

I stand corrected.

( if it's not in the script, and gets spoken on film, is it referred to as canon ? )

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

VIOLYNS

Sunday, May 23, 2010 4:49 PM

I always thought he asked, "Is he Jewish?" almost like "'zee Jewish?"

-----
~mia

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IMNOTHERE

Sunday, May 23, 2010 6:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wagneraude:
Bear with me here for a second.

Now, we all know Mal is atheistic, or at least rejects god, but in the pilot, we see him holding a cross, which means that at some point before the war he was Christian.

I thought it was pretty abundantly clear that he was a Christian who lost his faith somewhere in the aftermath of Serenity Valley.

Plus, the sort of "evidence" Wash may have noticed at the end of Trash is a very, very unreliable indicator of Jewishness (lots of other people have it done for cultural and/or medical reasons, sometimes routinely).

BYTEMITE

Sunday, May 23, 2010 7:52 PM

AU: If it's filmed, I consider it canon. The scripts are supplemental, and canon only if they don't contradict what is filmed or what is possible within the framework of the setting.

For example, the River pillow scene cut from OMR is not canon, because Saffron would have seen Simon and River, and she would have tipped off the Feds. In Trash, this is remedied by suggesting at one point that Saffron hadn't ever seen them and it would be best if Simon and River stayed out of sight.

Besides, I suspect that Wash was joking as well. Or it could even be Alan, in character, making a joke at Nathan's expense, as I hear that Nathan took a lot of guff from the crew for his little sock monster scene. Either way, since it was in character, it's a joke made in canon, but not necessarily a joke that has any bearing on canon. Mal isn't jewish, he'd have a star of david if that were the case, not a cross.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Mal isn't jewish, he'd have a star of david if that were the case, not a cross.

And imo, that's all it comes down to, that matters most. Hard to explain away that ( though not impossible ) Mal would be wearing and kissing a silver cross if he weren't Christian.

But I picked up something about the show I'd not known before, and that's worth somethin'.

:)

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

FEARTHEBUNNYMAN

Sunday, May 23, 2010 9:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
AU: If it's filmed, I consider it canon. The scripts are supplemental, and canon only if they don't contradict what is filmed or what is possible within the framework of the setting.

For example, the River pillow scene cut from OMR is not canon, because Saffron would have seen Simon and River, and she would have tipped off the Feds. In Trash, this is remedied by suggesting at one point that Saffron hadn't ever seen them and it would be best if Simon and River stayed out of sight.

Besides, I suspect that Wash was joking as well. Or it could even be Alan, in character, making a joke at Nathan's expense, as I hear that Nathan took a lot of guff from the crew for his little sock monster scene. Either way, since it was in character, it's a joke made in canon, but not necessarily a joke that has any bearing on canon. Mal isn't jewish, he'd have a star of david if that were the case, not a cross.

Hmm, the pillowcase scene was only cut due to time constraints, and I think can still be considered canon. Also, Saffron already saw Simon and River when she first came onboard the ship in OMR - everybody was gathered in the cargo bay - I think in Trash Mal was banking on her hopefully not having noticed them and put two and two together, or alternatively thinking they had already left the ship - no point in taking chances there, so the cut scene isn't really contradicted anywhere. But I agree with you that Alan's line was most likely an "Alan" line, as opposed to a Wash line, and has no bearing on Mal's actual heritage or religious upbringing.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, May 23, 2010 10:01 PM

Well, true on them being in the cargo bay, or at least Simon was, but they were also kind of in the background. You're a lot less likely to recognize someone and tip then off to the Feds if you aren't introduced to 'em.

So I still think a little bit of that scene cut was Joss and Co realizing that "Whoops! This might write us into a corner."

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