It’s over: MPs say the special relationship with US is dead
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, August 29, 2025 15:36
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:You're shitting us, right? I just posted about 100 of our "interventions" which ended in abysmal failure, and you point to three of four exceptions and call it "startling good"?
The thing is the U.S has a startlingly good record
Er... the only thing startling is your assessment!
I specified countries that have been occupied - not just have seen 'interventions'. If you don't truncate my quote it holds true - and you can maybe understand what the Neocons were thinking. Nobody was satisfied with the sanctions status quo.
Heads should roll
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Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
personally, i think the US is/ and will be, the most benevolent empire the world will ever see. as much as i criticize America for its intervention, IMO human nature would have compelled any other "world-power" in the same way. the world is frankly lucky that it was us on top(although its not luck- its a consequence of good policy). we are truly blessed as Americans, to have recieved the knowledge and undestanding that underpinned US law, and enabled us access to such incredible wealth. just imagine if the world super-power had been the Nazis, Stalin or Mao!? we might not even be having this discussion
and yet, inspite of all that, we still strive to achieve a balance that does not neccessitate our constant intervention. that is why we are special.. and its the libertairan way, supported by the bill of rights/constitution. in those most simple terms, we are not permitted to do anything near the scale and reach that we have been; both foreign and domesticly. so in that respect, i think we should bid adieu, and leave popular society, and the world, to its misery. IMO thats the best medicine. a consequence of that, i believe would be encouragement towards self reliance, and the accompanied spiritual growth that neccessitates survival. that can only happen by minimizing the role of government intervention. like the old saying goes, 'give a man a fish, feed him for a day. but teach a man to fish, and feed him for a lifetime'. in that same tradition, its time we finally leave the world to its own divices, and let God handle the rest.
people will call me cruel, its just my opinion
Picture yourself on the receiving end of that benevolence AM and tell me you feel the same way
tyrants are tyrants
murderers are murderers
why try to read more into it than that
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To respond, Gino, for hopefully the last time: Quote:
Aside from the option of violence, I have done everything under our system I can to effect change. I have supported and donated to candidates I feel can be effective, written, called and e-mailed on issues, marched many, many times. You want revolution, and that's the only "solution" you will accept. My car was filled with bumperstickers, I educated myself and everyone I came into contact with who was willing to listen, be they in person or on the internet.
You seem to want the status quo, or have no idea how to effect any change at all... you seem just to not like the reality change may just be forced upon you
And yes, I DID have change forced upon you; I had eight years of it and it was horrible. If we get bombed or revolt, as you so dearly want us to, I think you'll find it spills over into your country one way or another, and you'll find the price you pay for wanting violent overthrow of a government wasn't quite worth it.
You are again starting to misrepresent me; I never said because all empires do it, it's okay; I said ALL EMPIRES DO IT. Throughout history. That's called "perspective"; I do not see us as any worse and only equal to or slightly better in some cases than other empires. You seem to see us exclusively as the Evil Empire.
If we're bombed, how do you expect it not to turn into WWIII? How do you expect the entire rest of the world not to be affected, most of all the countries nearest to us? How realistic is THAT?
I live in a complex world; you live in a simple one: they do wrong, bomb them. Ergo, we have nothing to say to one another. I agree to disagree, tho' I doubt you'll let it go at that. I'd prefer not to see what I write turned into what YOU believe it is, not what it really is.
You unqualifiedly and violently hate America and Americans and want us bombed; I get it. I don't. You don't get it. End of story.
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
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Niki,
Without people like you, the US never could have started down this road...
Nothing you have done to stop it has accomplished anything... why seek any credit for failure?
Well I tried, doesn't mean a hell of alot to the growing stacks of dead does it now
" hopefully the last time: "
perfect... don't go away mad. just go away
" You unqualifiedly and violently hate America and Americans and want us bombed "
do unto other as they do onto you, golden rule right? seems other Americans here can wrap their heads around that reality, maybe stay off these threads if reality upsets you so
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Quote:So why did Iraq turn into such a clusterf*ck, compared to Germany and Japan?
I specified countries that have been occupied - not just have seen 'interventions'. If you don't truncate my quote it holds true - and you can maybe understand what the Neocons were thinking. Nobody was satisfied with the sanctions status quo.
MAYBE because in Germany we specifically sought to rebuild to protect ourselves from an economically-driven repeat of the WWI reparations, but in IRAQ Richard Bremmer sought to spread Iraq's legs for corporate rape and make Iraq pay for it's own invasion? (Like what was done to Germany post WWI.)
The reason why I point to our "interventions" as opposed to our "occupations" is to repeat the point that our motivations for going into a country drive the outcome. It doesn't matter whether it's a full-scale invasion and occupation, a "simple" invasion, an intelligence-directed overthrow, or covert and protracted harassment... if we're going into a nation for profits that nation will be screwed over from the get-go.... AND THAT'S OUR USUAL MO.
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"We're not the bully. That's what you're not getting. If WE didn't " influence " the world, someone else would."
Gino, SignyM, Kwicko, Frem
You forget you are dealing with the only person on the board who uses both logic AND reason !
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Silence is consent.
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"And you think the E. Germans were shooting at folks trying to climb IN, not OUT, right ?
The level of voluntary ignorance on your part knows no bounds."
And the odd thing - when the two Germanies were united West Germany took a big business hit - and the East German standard of living went down nearly 50%.
Just shows you where the priorities lie.
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KPO
Experienced generals TOLD THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION THAT IT WOULD TAKE MANY MORE TROOPS TO SECURE THE COUNTRY.
They were frozen out of the process and replaced with more malleable generals who parroted the neo-CON position that the US would be greeted with rose petals as liberators and everyone would live happily ever after.
It’s not like all the chaos happened by accident, unless you count bias, blind stupidity and arrogance IN THE FACE OF BETTER EXPERIENCE as an accident.
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Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:So why did Iraq turn into such a clusterf*ck, compared to Germany and Japan?
I specified countries that have been occupied - not just have seen 'interventions'. If you don't truncate my quote it holds true - and you can maybe understand what the Neocons were thinking. Nobody was satisfied with the sanctions status quo.
MAYBE because in Germany we specifically sought to rebuild to protect ourselves from an economically-driven repeat of the WWI reparations, but in IRAQ Richard Bremmer sought to spread Iraq's legs for corporate rape and make Iraq pay for it's own invasion? (Like what was done to Germany post WWI.)
The reason why I point to our "interventions" as opposed to our "occupations" is to repeat the point that our motivations for going into a country drive the outcome. It doesn't matter whether it's a full-scale invasion and occupation, a "simple" invasion, an intelligence-directed overthrow, or covert and protracted harassment... if we're going into a nation for profits that nation will be screwed over from the get-go.... AND THAT'S OUR USUAL MO.
I think several factors were of benefit in regards to Germany...
fear of the Soviets being the biggest one
and the acceptance that what befell them was a result of the Nazis, and I think most Germans of the day felt some responsibility over that
but yes, if what Bremmer sought had of been tried in either Germany or Japan... resistance would have started up again
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