It’s over: MPs say the special relationship with US is dead
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, August 29, 2025 15:36
VIEWED: 12277
PAGE 12 of 17
Quote:
Again you answered for me.
cost of maintaining an empire eventually overtakes the economic benefits, and the empire collapses from excessive militarism
The British Empire didn't die because Britain got bombed; it died because the places it had spread itself thin rebelled. I think it'd be great if all the places we've stuck our thumbs kicked us out; I just don't see any solution in bombing the home country. It's just stupid and would not result in anything better than what exists in the world today, in my opinion.
Ooops, you edited and added. I agree wholeheartedly with that last paragraph and I, for one, think it IS possible, just as it was with Britain...for us, economics might make our intrusion elsewhere untenable. I know it won't happen by popular demand, you're right, not enough grey matter floating around, but if those in government started seeing their own futures endangered...who knows?
I see bombing America into submission about like trying to bomb China or Russia into submission. Too damned big, too damned powerful...bombing would just make things worse. That's just my opinion, from what I've seen of history and geography.
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:That IS violence, is it not?
the places it had spread itself thin rebelled.
You seem to have a particular issue with striking at the heart of the beast. Now, I personally think that doing so generally incites further repression (both internal and external) and is counterproductive to throwing off the yoke.
OTOH, if we don't want the USA to be lumped together as uniformly imperialist/ proto-fascist, we'd better be prepared to do something effective - like charge Bush and Cheney with war crimes, or cutting off funding for Afghanistan. And if we can't manage that, then I can't blame the rest of the world for their reactions.
----
Ah, I see we cam to agreement after all.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"... it died because the places it had spread itself thin rebelled ..."
But only one of those rebellions was non-violent, and then for only part of the time, and that was what was then known as India with Ghandi leading the protests. There was considerable violence in the rebellions in general (Boxer, Mau Mau, Sepoy).
And the people wherever they are do not go along willingly. You have to force them to participate at the point of a gun - whether it is a militia, a garrison, a police force, torture chambers, disappearances, or whatnot. The only thing that keeps it working is if you have enough enforcement on your side to counteract the resistance. Once that equation is perceived to be altered OR you push people to the point where they literally have nothing left to lose, then the situation changes. It's like a pop bottle shaken - and opened.
BTW, there is another aspect of the British empire which is still going on today and that is Northern Ireland. In the not to distant past the crown evicted the Irish from their lands and then 'gave' large landholdings to loyal British supporters as rewards. Both the takover and the rebellion were violent.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
The British Empire didn't die because Britain got bombed;
Actually it's because Britain was spread thin because of the first and second world wars. There wasn't much rebellion inherent to that though, most places were given self rule relatively peacefully, but they were given self rule because Britain couldn't hold on to them, largely because Britain was bombed so much during the previously mentioned wars.
--------------------------------------------------
If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Arright, now you just GOTTA stop making my points for me, dammit, I'm feeling increasingly irrelevant
personally think that doing so generally incites further repression (both internal and external) and is counterproductive to throwing off the yoke
I'd love to do the things you suggested; would you kindly suggest how I can?
But I'll have to check for the answer later, 'cuz the huskies are getting into the garbage, tearing up things and making chewing gum out of paper towels they find in the trash can (Kochak's favorite pastime). Their way of saying "get us oooouuuuuttt...or else!" so I'd best listen if I want to salvage the house...
Oops, missed one. That Britain was bombed only hastened the fall of the Empire, in my opinion. Roman Empire didn't fall because Rome was "bombed", nor did the Spanish Empire, Ottoman Empire, and on and on. Rebellion in places HELD by the empire weakens it, and it falls from within or is invaded. Again I make the same point: Imagine "invading" America, Russia or China; it just isn't dooable. And I believe, again, that bombing us would only make things worse for everyone, the world over.
There has to be a better way. Still waiting for it...
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
BTW, there is another aspect of the British empire which is still going on today and that is Northern Ireland. In the not to distant past the crown evicted the Irish from their lands and then 'gave' large landholdings to loyal British supporters as rewards. Both the takover and the rebellion were violent.
If by not too distant past you mean longer ago than the existence of the United States or many of the colonies that it formed from.
--------------------------------------------------
If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
There was alot of violence involved in the dissolution of the British empire
and I am positve that
1. That the people who were fighting Britain, had the means of attacking Britain itself... they would have
2. That these attacks would have accelerated that decline
The spill over into other countrys may not happen
Canada for example, make keep its troops at home ( as they should have from the start )
Perhaps start calling a spade a spade, and lead a movement to diplomatically and economic counter said US policys in NATO, and the UN
Failing that we are part of the problem and open to attack as well, only fair...
Better to take a hit resisting mass murderers
than supporting the bastards who condone and commit it
Remember Bush isn't the only one
Who Killed more Iraqis
Bush, Saddam, or Clinton ?
who was brought to justice ?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
There was alot of violence involved in the dissolution of the British empire
I said relatively, and considering contenders are places like France, it's fairly accurate. Certainly more accurate than your statement :)
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
1. That the people who were fighting Britain, had the means of attacking Britain itself... they would have
2. That these attacks would have accelerated that decline
Indeed, if only the IRA had had the means, say, to attack Britain itself. Of course they could never quite manage it because of lack of funding, probably because nations that are staunchly anti-terrorist, like say the US, would never send them bomb money.
--------------------------------------------------
If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"If by not too distant past you mean longer ago than the existence of the United States or many of the colonies that it formed from."
That is a past still remembered - and still alive in the economic and political structures there.
Hey what can I say ... in the US political memory only lasts about 2 years. Time enough to do your damage and then buy yourself a new image for the next election. Unless you are from the south, in which case your memory might go back to the mid 1800's.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I've had two epiphanies on the topic, one while seeing "Hearts and Minds" which was a documentary of the Vietnam War. It made me realize what Frem said: These are PEOPLE. People who grieve over their parents, children, loved ones. People who feel what we do. There is no difference between us... under the skin we're alike. Even militant jihadists have their mirror image in Rappy.
The second was when my daughter was born and almost died. I felt the deepest grief I have ever felt in my life. And I couldn't help imagining that in some place far away... like a dusty city in Iraq... a mother was crying over her dead baby with the same grief.
It's hard to "think" this. You have to feel it... recognition has to hit you in the gut. Your world has to spin around, and everything you felt to be true... or didn't feel at all... has to change. Unless that happens, it's all words.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME