It’s over: MPs say the special relationship with US is dead
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, August 29, 2025 15:36
VIEWED: 12277
PAGE 6 of 17
KPO
I'm still waiting for you to explain how all those deaths were not the fault of the US - either practically or as a matter of law.
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Silence is consent.
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KPO, I also cited Costa Rica, Brazil, Peru, Cuba etc. I was just trying to cite examples that dunderheads might be familiar with.
Some of our wars/ invasions/ incursions (three or four, possibly) had a positive outcomes for those involved. I would cite Europe (WWII, not WWI. The punitive measures we took after WWI merely set the stage for WWII), the former Yugoslavia (somewhat), and maybe Korea (although it's a little hard to tell what would have happened).
That's, what... 1%? Not exactly a ringing success, and evidence of our REAL motivations for virtually all of our military actions.
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Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:Quote:
Originally posted by AURAPTOR:
Sig
( hate to ask , but wth ... )
If we didn't act, do you think nothing would happen? Would the void that filled the space we don't occupy be filled up w/ peaceful, caring, and freedom loving influences ?
Looking at how other nations run things, I'd rather we influence the issue than others.
Taking us out of the equation doesn't always ensure the shiny happy you're trying to portray.
So don't bitch when the issue turns around to exert its influence on you
what goes around, comes around
you might have heard the cliche
birds coming home to roost and all that
You completely ignored what I posted. Figures.
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:Quote:
Originally posted by AURAPTOR:
Sig
( hate to ask , but wth ... )
If we didn't act, do you think nothing would happen? Would the void that filled the space we don't occupy be filled up w/ peaceful, caring, and freedom loving influences ?
Looking at how other nations run things, I'd rather we influence the issue than others.
Taking us out of the equation doesn't always ensure the shiny happy you're trying to portray.
So don't bitch when the issue turns around to exert its influence on you
what goes around, comes around
you might have heard the cliche
birds coming home to roost and all that
You completely ignored what I posted. Figures.
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
What, that throwing your influence around is okay, but when other folk try to influence you the same frigging way you call foul
It is something like punching a bully in the mouth
ask Frem, maybe he'll explain it to you
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
As I told Gino elsewhere, most people here agree with him about America. But violence is not the answer anywhere.
I agree with most everything said, except for the call to violence, but I also think a lot of good is ignored here out of, who knows, maybe guilt? America's done a lot of bad, but also a lot of good, and I agree that, if we were taken out of the equation, nobody can say how many would have died, been persecuted, raped, etc.
Not excusing America for its faults, just saying we're one nation out of many, and nobody's perfect. Thank you, KPO, for the perspective. Beyond that, I won't get into this; I know this is an anti-authoritarian-figure bunch--maybe it goes back to Firefly, I dunno. But I do know that there are many who disagree--and I don't mean just the "America, great nation" idjits who can see no wrong.
I'm a middle-of-the-roader on this one; I hate what we've done, but I don't see us as the Evil Empire. All empires are evil, we're just one of many and because of technology and it being a global village, our empire has had more reach. Another will no doubt come along, maybe in our lifetime, for people to hate equally.
And still you offer no realistic idea to stop your countrys ugly ways ?
you don't like violence, sure
do you want things to remain as there are then ?
offer an alternative
because the status quo doesn't work anymore, and if others are made to suffer for Americas interests... then why shouldn't America suffer equally
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Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
What, that throwing your influence around is okay, but when other folk try to influence you the same frigging way you call foul
It is something like punching a bully in the mouth
ask Frem, maybe he'll explain it to you
We're not the bully. That's what you're not getting. If WE didn't " influence " the world, someone else would.
Would you prefer Communist China ? Or maybe state terrorism leading Iran ? Or any number of little thug dictators, from Hugo to Castro, running the show.
We're one of the last true beacons of hope for the world. Even with our mistakes and screw ups. Far better us adding our influence than others. But you seem to think, naively as possible, that if we left well enough alone, then there'd be no troubles, anywhere, what so ever.
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
What, that throwing your influence around is okay, but when other folk try to influence you the same frigging way you call foul
It is something like punching a bully in the mouth
ask Frem, maybe he'll explain it to you
We're not the bully. That's what you're not getting. If WE didn't " influence " the world, someone else would.
Would you prefer Communist China ? Or maybe state terrorism leading Iran ? Or any number of little thug dictators, from Hugo to Castro, running the show.
We're one of the last true beacons of hope for the world. Even with our mistakes and screw ups. Far better us adding our influence than others. But you seem to think, naively as possible, that if we left well enough alone, then there'd be no troubles, anywhere, what so ever.
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
That may be the way you see it
but those being influenced by you disagree rather strongly.. that makes you the bully
If someone else was the bully and asked you for help, that may change the dynamic of the situation... but that is not reality
and that is what you are missing
China, Iran, Cuba, etc have been on the side of the angels the last twenty year compared to the US forcing its opinions on damn near everyone else
Yankee go home, stay there unless invited back for a visit
Better for all concerned
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I wonder if anyones opinion would change, if they knew some of the folks who did die as "collateral damage", from american bombs.
I did, you see - each of those numbers, those were PEOPLE, folks with hopes and dreams, lives beyond the scope of those dry numbers, human beings who were as flawed and yet proud, as any one of us, wiped from existence in an instant, all that they were, all that they believed, all the good and ill they might have done, whatever future potential they had, and gone, just that quick.
One of those people, was a RAWA translator, one of the few who spoke pretty good english, and something of a friend, who did a beautiful pencil sketch for me when words failed her at how much she valued even *acknowledgement* of their plight by an american, a lady I knew little about, but honored for her devotion to a seemingly hopeless cause in the same general direction as mine.
And then.. gone.
Those are PEOPLE, curse your eyes, and I want you to acknowledge it.
-Frem
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Quote:Of course we are. Not the ONLY bully, but definitely the one who commits THE MOST resources to bullying! (More than all the other bullies combined, and that's saying something.)
We're not the bully.
Quote:Yeah, maybe people could actually elect their own governments!
That's what you're not getting. If WE didn't " influence " the world, someone else would.
Quote:Because OUR dictators are so much better?
Would you prefer Communist China ? Or maybe state terrorism leading Iran ? Or any number of little thug dictators, from Hugo to Castro, running the show.
To answer your question directly: a resounding YES
Castro and Chavez have done far more for their people than "our" dictators have.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I wonder if anyones opinion would change, if they knew some of the folks who did die as "collateral damage", from american bombs.
I did, you see - each of those numbers, those were PEOPLE, folks with hopes and dreams, lives beyond the scope of those dry numbers, human beings who were as flawed and yet proud, as any one of us, wiped from existence in an instant, all that they were, all that they believed, all the good and ill they might have done, whatever future potential they had, and gone, just that quick.
One of those people, was a RAWA translator, one of the few who spoke pretty good english, and something of a friend, who did a beautiful pencil sketch for me when words failed her at how much she valued even *acknowledgement* of their plight by an american, a lady I knew little about, but honored for her devotion to a seemingly hopeless cause in the same general direction as mine.
And then.. gone.
Those are PEOPLE, curse your eyes, and I want you to acknowledge it.
-Frem
me Frem ?
hell I totally agree on that point
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