It’s over: MPs say the special relationship with US is dead
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, August 29, 2025 15:36
VIEWED: 12277
PAGE 4 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"That's why I think all this talk of war crimes and imperial genocide is sad nonsense."
In Iraq the US DID bomb civilians, DID torture prisoners, DID hold family members hostage, and DID kill hundreds of thousands of people ... not to mention DID launch an attack another country by choice. Just 'cause soembody felt like it. I don't know if that amounts to genocide, but it does amount to war crimes.
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Silence is consent.
If you want an example of genocide, have a look at the end result of the Iraq sanctions over its course...
Even the UN puts the number of dead attributed to the sanctions ( up to 1998 ) at 750,000 children under the age of 17 dead. Start to add in people over 17, and extend the number for the following years.... I would call that Genocide, or mass murder at the least.
In 1995, France wanted to lift the sanctions for humanitarian reasons, plus the inspectors were not finding anything... Blocked by Britain and the US.
I wonder who killed more Iraqis, Bush... Clinton... or Saddam ?
And if some Americans are willing to kill that many people on the ifs and maybes of WMD evidence they supposedly had ( or not ) Fuck Them, they deserve whatever happens to them
And if they are in disgust and horror about the entire affair... then see to it those who were involved see some sort of justice.
In a court room preferably, but if not
Karl Rove, in a bookstore, with a .45
works for me too
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"How many electrical substations could be easily knocked out for weeks killing power to swaths of area."
The government is way ahead of you. There was a story a couple of years ago about a grad student whose thesis was - gee, if I wanted to to create maximum damage, where are the nodes located ? This was for all types of infrastructure - power, communication, water, ground transport etc. Well, the grad student was not allowed to publish or graduate - and the government confiscated the work. Never to be heard of in detail again.
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Silence is consent.
Go for a Sunday Drive
Bet you can identify a dozen great targets on the way to lunch, if you look around with the thought in mind.
Look at the Washington sniper ?
Announce the trucking industry is an infrastructure target
you don't even need to hit anything, firing a shot once in a while will prompt the response you want... convoys of trucks surrounded by troops...
Want to take down a transmission tower ?
You can make Thermite pretty easy
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
A reason for evil.
Okay, Operative.
@ Gino- I'm with ya, dude.
The laughing Chrisisall
"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
@ Gino- I'm with ya, dude.
The US needs to be bombed until these and other criminals are either are dead or handed over. - Gino
2,974
So what ? - Gino
Not even Jessica can save your miserable, worthless soul for that one, Chris.
Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."
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Quote:
DID kill hundreds of thousands of people
U.S actions 'killed', or 'led to the death of'? Happily blurring concepts...
Quote:
Quote:
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The US didn't put that powder keg there, and it didn't light it on purpose - folly and incompetence achieved that.
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Gosh, that must come as quite a comfort to the families of the dead.
Err, well why don't you try comforting the families of Iraqis blown up at marketplaces by telling them they should feel no ill will to Al Qaeda - but instead place all that blame on Bush! Tell them that in effect, George W Bush pressed that trigger.
They would find you perverse and stupid.
Heads should roll
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Quote:MOST of our "wars" we fought for control of resources. In almost all cases, we came in on the side of the rich.... corporations, plantation owners, oil sheiks, oligarchs, dictators ... anyone who would provide our corporations with a "business-friendly", non-union, impoverished source of labor or resources.
Pretty much agree with Auraptor. I think you are happily blurring wars/concepts in your head Signy. You can't bunch all US foreign wars together and add a tally of civilian casualties from Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, Northern France... The morality of each war is different, so be specific.
Indian Wars (genocide)
Spanish-American War
Argentina 1890 Troops, Buenos Aires interests protected
Chile, 1891 Troops, Marines clash with nationalist rebels.
Haiti, 1891 Troops Black revolt on Navassa defeated.
Hawaii, 1893 Naval, troops, Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.
Nicaragua, 1894, Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.
China, 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War
Korea, 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.
Panama, 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province.
Nicaragua, 1896,troops, Marines land in port of Corinto.
China, 1898-1900,Troops, Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.
Philippines, 1898-1910, Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos
Cuba, 1898-1902, Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.
Puerto Rico, 1898, Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues.
Guam, 1898, Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.
Nicaragua, 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.
Samoa, 1899, Troops Battle over succession to throne.
Nicaragua 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields
Panama, 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914.
Honduras, 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution.
Dominican Republic, 1903-04 Troops U.S. interests protected in Revolution.
Korea, 1904-05 Troops Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.
Cuba, 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election.
Nicaragua, 1907 Troops "Dollar Diplomacy" protectorate set up.
Honduras, 1907 Troops Marines land during war with Nicaragua
Panama, 1908 Troops Marines intervene in election contest.
Nicaragua, 1910 Troops Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.
Honduras, 1911 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
China 1911-41 Naval, troops Continuous occupation with flare-ups.
Cuba 1912 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
Panama 1912 Troops Marines land during heated election.
Honduras 1912 Troops Marines protect U.S. economic interests.
Nicaragua 1912-33 Troops, bombing 10-year occupation, fought guerillas
Dominican Republic 1914 Naval Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.
Mexico 1914-18 Naval, troops Series of interventions against nationalists.
Haiti 1914-34 Troops, bombing 19-year occupation after revolts.
Dominican Republic 1916-24 Troops 8-year Marine occupation.
Cuba 1917-33 Troops Military occupation, economic protectorate.
Russia 1918-22 Naval, troops landings to fight Bolsheviks
Panama 1918-20 Troops "Police duty" during unrest after elections.
Honduras 1919 Troops Marines land during election campaign.
Guatemala 1920 Troops 2-week intervention against unionists.
China 1922-27 Naval, troops Deployment during nationalist revolt.
Honduras 1924-25 Troops Landed twice during election strife.
Panama 1925 Troops Marines suppress general strike.
China 1927-34 Troops Marines stationed throughout the country.
El Salvador 1932 Naval Warships send during Marti revolt.
WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.
DETROIT 1943 Troops Army put down Black rebellion.
Uruguay 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.
Greece 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.
China 1948-49 Troops/Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.
Philippines 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.
Puerto Rico 1950 Command operation Indepe
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Betcha didn't know we've been so busy, huh?
My god, the way we act, you'd think we were an empire or sumpthin'.
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heres my opinion: only in self defense, in response to an act of aggression, does any nation have the 'right' to go to war. its a principle libertain view to never exert aggression but in direct self-defense. i believe it was the policy for AMerica all along to remain neutral, unless attacked directly. no aid, no allies.. complete neutrality. 'commerce with all, entangling alliances with none' was the early motto of the American founders. it was British common law that introduced the founders to these concepts to begin with! the biblical concept would be that a role model is a more effective influence then a bully.
if, as i personally believe, we are a divinely inspired nation(because of our heritage), then we should grant more faith and confidence to the Lord, who is the ultimate arbitor of justice- and who does infact have some dominion over man. this is my fundemental rule on the marketplace, on human behavior, and on foreign relations. i know athiests and agnostics will disagree on the method, but will generally agree on the outcome. because in the end, freedom of expression, and self determination, ironically are what grease the skids of capitalism.
but specifically.. i notice that liberals are very contemptous about the US relationship with Israel. personally i agree! i think we should keep it 'plutonic.' but why not with everyone(even the EU)? we aid all the Arab nations around Israel, which are fundementally contentious... to what end? we ought not be any more involved with anyone outside what commerce and trade permit us. in that same vein.. why is our Federal Reserve bailing out Greece? why are are we still protecting Germany? why should we have any role in Afghanistan? republicans have taken a lot of flack.. but liberals created this notion of making the world 'safe for democracy'. they would have put is in Darphur if given the chance...
if you have 2 friends, who are fighting with eachother, what happens when you pick sides? you lose a friend. but if you remain neutral, you become a more effective mediator, able to maintain civil relations with both sides.
personally i think thats the foreign/economic policy we should strive for- if you want to live in a truly free society, you have to accept SOME RISK of unforseen circumstances(ie terrorism/unforseen personal calamity). whatever your fear is, let it go, embrace the inevitability of unforseen cicumstance. otherwise, stay out of the way!! only then will the two polar extremes, classic (american)liberals and traditional conservatives find a grey area.
and just to finalize my point.. does it appear, anyways, that a healthy majority of Iranians would rather trade computers and cell phones with the west then weapons? we may not even need sactions. if given enough time, the grassroots uprising will overthrow the current leadership. could it be, that if we just stayed out of the way, things may favorably fall into place?? its a risk that apparently current libs and conservatives, in America, are unwilling to take. but this also extends to policy both foreign and domestic! its a strange parallel.. but neither party will accept any room for divine providence. it's no wonder we have a history of authoritarian idealogues run amok- we dont believe in freedom anymore!!! its pure centralized planning from here on out
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Sig
( hate to ask , but wth ... )
If we didn't act, do you think nothing would happen? Would the void that filled the space we don't occupy be filled up w/ peaceful, caring, and freedom loving influences ?
Looking at how other nations run things, I'd rather we influence the issue than others.
Taking us out of the equation doesn't always ensure the shiny happy you're trying to portray.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURAPTOR:
Sig
( hate to ask , but wth ... )
If we didn't act, do you think nothing would happen? Would the void that filled the space we don't occupy be filled up w/ peaceful, caring, and freedom loving influences ?
Looking at how other nations run things, I'd rather we influence the issue than others.
Taking us out of the equation doesn't always ensure the shiny happy you're trying to portray.
So don't bitch when the issue turns around to exert its influence on you
what goes around, comes around
you might have heard the cliche
birds coming home to roost and all that
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