What does the future hold for Firefly fandom?
POSTED BY: Haken
UPDATED: Thursday, April 29, 2010 13:43
VIEWED: 16403
PAGE 4 of 6
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Originally posted by ecgordon:Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
The fandom is dying.
If you really feel that way what are you still doing here? Read back through this thread and tell me that everything others have said indicates there is no activity or product being generated by the fans. You can't. It's just your opinion, and your opinion is wrong.
...snip...
Ok, so I say that the fandom is dying. This means that it isn't dead yet, otherwise I would have stated that it is dead and not dying. But, you take what I've stated and misrepresent it as I think it is dead and go from there. This is referred to as a strawman argument (i.e. invalid).
But, if you go back to the activity of the participation on these forums and others, there is a distinct decline which is tending toward dead. That's not opinion, it's fact. Fact that has been stated by the forum operators (because they can do these stats things to the logs). In fact, one doesn't even really need the logs to see it. One only needs a memory. I've been around for years and comparing when I first got here to now... well, there's a drastic difference. You might not like it, but facts are facts.
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I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Guessing SigmaNunki is right that we have to be self sustaining. Seems we've been doing pretty much just that for years now.
Thanks :) But, we haven't been doing the self sustaining thing so much as we've been doing the "Well, here I am" thing.
Just saying that instead of having that guy over there doing his thing:
http://revolutionfirefly.webs.com/
And that guy over there doing his:
http://zconnect.org.uk/firefly
And some other folks over there doing theres:
http://s4.invisionfree.com/GunRunner/index.php?act=idx
And ....
Seems to me it might be a better idea to work together to actually get something done. I've raised that notion when projects were announced, but everybody needs to be in control and doing exactly what they want without compromise. So, dead project and dead project is the result. And that goes beyond the game realm as well.
Sad state of affairs indeed.
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I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Regarding the BSR, etc. That's hardly anything. I mean, no offence to those that write/draw, but when one considers commercial quality v.s. what's found in the BSR... well there's no comparison.
You can't ask for fan interest, then denounce fan interest as being not of high enough quality. That's ridiculous.
Quote:
That's actually not an opinion. Haken himself has noted a massive decline in activity on the forum and other forum operators have noted the same.
That is one portion of things, true. But it is not the entire picture. When there's more to talk about (as there will be as 2010 progresses with at least 3 Firefly projects), there will be more conversation.
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The community is dying.
That is your opinion, and a pretty big leap from a single assertion.
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What you cite is just something that you use to continue your folly.
I could say the same. Since you don't seem particularly interested in conversation, but simply in pushing your viewpoint regardless of facts, I will likely waste no more time on you after I finish reading through this post.
Quote:
Point of fact, just because something sells, doesn't mean another fan is created.
Correct. But it DOESN'T mean a new fan is created. My point is not that FIREFLY is still selling, but that (8 years after the series, and 5 years after the movie), it is still selling WELL. It is selling much better than current items. And it's not just the same folk buying their 19th copy.
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What makes those comics lesser is that the dialogue, etc, is on the level of what I've seen in comics targeted toward kids, not to mention hadn't a lick of Joss-ism in them.
I'm sure Joss and his writer (who wrote for the series) would disagree with that opinion, as do I.
Quote:
Point of fact, people like me tend to not come out and say that the comics suck (or similar) because we get flamed by those that think such words are heresy. Sound familiar?
If you think I've flamed you, your sadly mistaken. You've denounced the comics categorically stating the fact that they are bad based on little more than your opinion that you don't like the dialogue.
www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."
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The only thing I don't like about the comics is that they are just pictures and words, and what I want is our BDHs speaking those words on my TV screen. Other than that I've enjoyed them, and will be buying FloatOut and Shepherd's Tale when they are released.
Also, just because there is less activity on various forums does not mean that former participants have left the fandom, just that they have other things to do rather than discuss the same old, same old for the thirtieth time. When and if there is new content to discuss I am sure we will see more activity.
For instance, I've been a regular here for around six years, and I don't see members like ManWithPez, ThatWeirdGirl, or Succatash post very often anymore. I don't for one minute think they have lost their love for Firefly though. That's just crazy talk.
wo men ren ran zai fei xing.
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I think Sig is set on being negative and any attempts to rouse him will only lead to him continuing to push his inflammatory "dying" statement and trying to dismiss your attempts to brighten the picture with the actual fandom that's still out there.
"...we need a hood ornament..."
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Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
You can't ask for fan interest, then denounce fan interest as being not of high enough quality. That's ridiculous.
Please stop reading into what I say and twisting the facts by taking things out of context.
Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:Quote:
That's actually not an opinion. Haken himself has noted a massive decline in activity on the forum and other forum operators have noted the same.
That is one portion of things, true. But it is not the entire picture. When there's more to talk about (as there will be as 2010 progresses with at least 3 Firefly projects), there will be more conversation.
Um, it kind of is the entire picture (at least in respect to what you are talking about here). I mean, it just isn't that people aren't talking about FF/S here (and elsewhere) anymore. It's that no-one is talking here anymore at all (hyperbole). Conveniently missed that point I would imagine.
I would also say that you are at least naive with regards to the assumed increase in conversation. Because, past history contradicts that. But, perhaps that was before your time on this site or you are seeing history through rose coloured glasses.
Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:Quote:
The community is dying.
That is your opinion, and a pretty big leap from a single assertion.
Nope. Read the entire argument I've put forth. Check out the history and it will be confirmed. Sorry. Reality is reality.
Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:Quote:
What you cite is just something that you use to continue your folly.
I could say the same. Since you don't seem particularly interested in conversation, but simply in pushing your viewpoint regardless of facts, I will likely waste no more time on you after I finish reading through this post.
There's the rub though. I actually point to facts (e.g. web site traffic drastically down) and you just spout opinion. There's a difference between the two you know.
Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:Quote:
Point of fact, just because something sells, doesn't mean another fan is created.
Correct. But it DOESN'T mean a new fan is created. My point is not that FIREFLY is still selling, but that (8 years after the series, and 5 years after the movie), it is still selling WELL. It is selling much better than current items. And it's not just the same folk buying their 19th copy.
Unless you can provide a causal link between sales and increased fan activity, you're sunk. Unless you can provide a reasonable fact based argument to show that "still selling well" will equal "will sell just as well in the future", you're sunk. Unless you can show that those sales will not be long term but rather mostly right after release, you're sunk (this one is a requirement of the movie industry btw). Unless you can show these basic things, a business case you have not made.
Btw, selling better than some (not all as you imply by saying "much better than current items") is pretty much meaningless given the quality of those products and the fact that FF/S is a a poorly served niche demographic.
Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:Quote:
What makes those comics lesser is that the dialogue, etc, is on the level of what I've seen in comics targeted toward kids, not to mention hadn't a lick of Joss-ism in them.
I'm sure Joss and his writer (who wrote for the series) would disagree with that opinion, as do I.
Well a side-by-side comparison would prove my case. But, I'm not so invested in "being right" that I'll do such a thing. Stick with your opinion if you want. No skin off my teeth.
Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:Quote:
Point of fact, people like me tend to not come out and say that the comics suck (or similar) because we get flamed by those that think such words are heresy. Sound familiar?
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@ecgordon:
It doesn't mean that former participants have stayed in the fandom either. But, there's actually human type stuff that would say that they have actually left. As in, people tend to drift away from what they once loved when it isn't around anymore. And historically, that's what has happened to this fandom. People slowly drifted away as time went on; they've moved on to other things.
Does this mean that they won't go see another movie or some such if released? Of course not. But, there's a difference between being in the fandom and just liking something.
I'll also point to the fact that, by and large, people have stayed here not to talk about FF/S, but, rather to talk to people that they now consider friends (if only online). Just check out the new conversations that are coming up. How many are FF/S related and how many are other? But, the drift continues even still...
----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Quote:
Originally posted by reenact12321:
I think Sig is set on being negative and any attempts to rouse him will only lead to him continuing to push his inflammatory "dying" statement and trying to dismiss your attempts to brighten the picture with the actual fandom that's still out there.
Nope. It's just the reality thing that I really like. As in, we must be honest about where we are if we are to make headway.
I should also point out that while I do at the same time say that the fans need to be more active and put down the BSR, these two ideas are not mutually exclusive. You see, drawing pictures and fic is nothing compared to what is really needed. The fans need to get together as a group and complete project after project of projects that push the envelope of what is possible.
Pictures do not succeed in this effort. A more grand effort like sketching out planets cities, etc would be. Fic doesn't cut it. A more grand effort like creating a 'Bible' for writing fic would be (this is a project that I considered doing but didn't have the time to do myself -- inactive fan base). That would be a start with that stuff. You know, instead of everyone writing in different directions. Games are another area that is feasible assuming a reasonably small game (or episodic).
Unfortunately, what is done is none of this, or too much. There are... numerous game projects that can be found in the archive that show the too much thing and a complete lack of others that show the too little issue.
You see, it's not that I'm being negative. Here I've pointed out things that could be done. I've also done this many many times in the past. But, guess what. No-one pulls up there socks and actually does anything. They just talk or my suggests of something to do other than talk kills the conversation with cries of "Why can't we just talk!".
Also, I have I tried to organize. Go look in the archive. I've made multiple attempts. There has also been a couple attempts that I didn't publicly announce but only contacted people privately (those that stated that they'd join such a project). The response was... underwhelming.
That's the real point. It's the, "You have to get off your ass and actually do something to make a difference" thing that I'm getting at. And I'm not talking about the "We've done the impossible, let's do it again" thing. I'm talking about realistic goals.
But, that isn't what's wanted. That isn't what "inspires" people around here. This, largely speaking, is an all or nothing crowd. And if it isn't something that is exactly what the big corps are capable of, that takes teams of 100 (or more) years to do, then it just isn't worth it. But, you know, even then, it's "Good luck with that. Hope to see it soon." Because, god forbid someone would learn a new skill or something crazy like that.
And before you attempt to call me on not doing (or doing as the case may be), in Dec I picked up Unity ( http://unity3d.com/) and started playing with that. In mid Jan I picked up Blender ( http://www.blender.org/) and started playing with that (I would show you how well I draw if you don't believe this one is picking up a new skill for me. But, it might blind you.)
I also currently have several projects that I'm considering (and one I actually have done some modelling/rigging for) including, FF/S, Captain Hammer, Ratchet and Clank, and two original IPs. Nothing really big. If I really gave 'er, I'd probably be able to bang one out in a couple months (if only a playable concept 1 or 2 level thing). I'm just waiting for my heart to decide on one of them because I think they're all really neat.
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I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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I am the future.
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