Students, professors to protest education cutbacks
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 14:05
VIEWED: 9750
PAGE 5 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"... who still cannot meet their own needs ..."
As I tried to point out, we live in a society of artificial lack. People who do ANY job 40 hours a week are net productive in society. They ARE contributing more than they are taking. That we continue to suck value out of them to give to the already obscenely wealthy and powerful is a fault of our system, not of them.
But the system has corroded our humanity.
There IS no such thing as being poor, but wise. Poor, but talented. Poor, but inventive. Money is the only measure of our worth.
If you believe that, then yes, people with degrees that don't MAKE SOMEONE MONEY are a waste of human flesh. If you don't, then you will think otherwise.
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Silence is consent.
Go down to a soup kitchen and see how many people have degrees and debt with no hope of employment that would give them security...
I knew several people who needed to feed themselves out of the food bank, with degree similar to this, and this was during a boom, not a recession...
the guy I mentioned who worked for Dell, worked 60 or so hours a week, living in a rooming house where he shared a toilet down the hall with the other folk living there up to the point he met his wife... was he happy... no ( not being snarky, I know of one suicide attempt )
Maybe it is the system, or society
But I see the waste of potential, the misery and the hurt
" There IS no such thing as being poor, but wise. Poor, but talented. Poor, but inventive "
Drop by a homeless shelter and I'd bet money you would find examples of all three
Talent, Inventive, Wise... just no hope
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Gino
During the Depression well educated men were reduced to trying to sell apples on the street. Skilled workers were begging handouts.
Is your answer to keep people from investing in education or skills ? Or do you think the problem lies elsewhere ?
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Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
my heart goes out to these kids. seriously.
But not your wallet.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Gino
During the Depression well educated men were reduced to trying to sell apples on the street. Skilled workers were begging handouts.
Is your answer to keep people from investing in education or skills ? Or do you think the problem lies elsewhere ?
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
With limited resources why train people in skill sets that statistical studies would reveal to be not in demand ?
If you need 50 doctors, why train 30, and 20 people in folklore... then complain about the shortage of doctors, the lack of spaces in medical programs, the lack of funding for programs, the taxes paid into education, the lack of social assistance for the 15 of the 20 folklore guys living on the street...
Target education funding and design programs which produce people with a better chance of success... And by success I mean to at a minimum be able to provide for themselves to a degree that offsets the investment made in their education.
Like I said, some people suffer for their educational choices even during boom times
Lean times, people need all the chances they can get...
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
my heart goes out to these kids. seriously.
But not your wallet.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
my heart is as empty as my wallet, and i, as a grad student on the verge of graduation, am similarly situated.
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"If you need 50 doctors, why train 30, and 20 people in folklore... then complain about the shortage of doctors ..."
You seem to think that economic supply and demand are forces of nature. They are not. Supply and demand are driven by what we chose to value, what we chose to withhold, what we chose to reward. They are all choices.
Since you mention doctors specifically, in 2007 in the US there were 2 applicants for every spot in medical school. Some people see this as a problem - perhaps the pool is too shallow. Other people see this as a bonus - surely there are more than enough applicants to fill all the places. Either way, the number of doctors isn't limited by the availability of applicants.
So why is there a doctor shortage ? If the 'laws' of supply and demand worked the overabundance of applicants and the shortage of doctors would work itself out quickly. But that's not the case.
Let's take another example: PhD chemists. This is certainly a demanding field, something which you would expect would produced relatively low numbers of people. And there is definitely a need - for materials chemists, biopharmaceutical chemists, petroleum chemists etc. Yet the going rate for job applicant PhD chemists with some experience in these fields is barely above minimum wage - largely due to the heavy use of contract and temporary work.
If the 'laws' of supply and demand held, you would not expect this result.
Now let's look at a hypothetical. There are 100 nursing jobs available. Every single person who goes to school gets a nursing degree. Does that make more nursing jobs available ?
In the big picture there are more than enough qualified people to do any job. There are more than enough OVER qualified people to do any job. What you are proposing is that people give themselves better weapons in this Roman arena we call an economy. And in the short-term, some people will do better. But by going that route you guarantee that overall, in the long run, everyone loses.
What I am saying is that there are other answers. Yes, they involve a major rethinking of what we assume. But the first thing is to not discount education - ANY education - as being somehow useless to society. If it produces more thoughtful people, then society has benefited.
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And now I have to leave. I expect to be back next week, and look forward to more discussion - if not on this topic, then on some other.
Good luck to all.
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Quote:WHAT limited resources?
With limited resources why train people in skill sets that statistical studies would reveal to be not in demand ?
Sure we're short of food, water, trees, wildlands, clean air and clean ocean. But we're not short of people. People train people. People learn from people. THAT we have plenty of!
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
WHAT limited resources?
Sure we're short of food, water, trees, wildlands, clean air and clean ocean. But we're not short of people. People train people. People learn from people. THAT we have plenty of!
Actually people do not train people. People learn from trained employees (professors, doctors, teachers, etc). Employees drawing a salary and benefits train people. Employees sitting in rooms with electric lights and chalk boards...perhaps computers or other essential equipment train people.
So lots of people. Little money for salary, benefits, buildings and support services all of which are essential for training people...unless you're training people to be unskilled workers. That you can do with the resource you describe (people).
You can have all the people in the world available to teach computer programming...but if your resources are limited to people and perhaps some sticks and dirt, your future computer programmer is going to end up picking fruit to earn a living.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Just a quick reply and then gone - but all those THINGS you point to as an example of resources - electricity and light bulbs, buildings and clean halls, computers and chalk, and invention - are a result of - somebody's effort. Iron is just a rock in the ground until somebody mines it, somebody transports it, somebody smelts it, somebody designs it, somebody machines it ... Those 'things' don't grow on trees ready to be plucked. They aren't found in nature. They are the crystallized work of many people. It still comes back to the 'resource' of people.
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Silence is consent.
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