Students, professors to protest education cutbacks

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 6, 2024 14:05
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Quote:

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Originally posted by rue:
Gino

Your question is very philosophical, but incomplete. Useful for what ? Productive to whom ?

Let me propose a hypothetical society. For lack of a better term I'll call them Karalians. Everyone who can works enough to meet their needs and have a measure of security, and to support those who are too young, too old or too infirm to work. No one is very rich or powerful, but no one is very poor and powerless either. These Karalians love art, music and dance. They lovingly pour much time into teaching their children to sing and play the traditional songs, to dance the group dances, and to create beautiful art to give away to those they love and like. It even be may be a society you would like to live in, if you had the chance. So, after years of this effort, the children are grown. Should the parents now be asking - but are they useful ? Are they productive ? Why did we waste our time on them this way ?

In societies of artificial dearth like ours, your questions make one kind of sense. But in the range of possibilities, they are unnecessarily restrictive.


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Silence is consent.

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This is my point " Everyone who can works enough to meet their needs and have a measure of security, and to support those who are too young, too old or too infirm to work. "

Some of these programs produce at a cost, people who are not too young, or old, or infirm who still cannot meet their own needs, have a debt load due to their share of their education cost, have no security, and are unable to contribute to the security of others...


If these people REALLY need to go to that place, non government funded ways should be available to them...

Once again, Engineers who take art classes is a good thing

Chemists who study dance is a good thing

Lawyers who take cultural studies course is a good thing

taking a degree in folklore, defaulting on your student loans because the only job you can find after graduation is in a coffee shop is a bad thing

Bad for the person, who set themselves back years for an education that doesn't meet their own need for security or support. Bad for the government who invested in that education, likely bad for that persons family who threw money in as well, only to witness their " student " enter poverty as a result.

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education is getting cut. there is absolutely no way around this short term, and there is plenty of blame to assign. nobody disagrees that cutting education hurts, but if any positive effect comes from the protests, it will merely be venting frustration with the economic reality we face. of course, i'd be frustrated too if the funding that puts students in seats was slashed, while administrators and other worthless bureucrats continue to receive lucrative salaries.

i'm with gino on this one. i don't not beleive that classes in say, jewish studies or african american studies are valueless. these classes, and majors, represent important areas of knowledge that are worth developing. but, as a fellow who earned a BA with very little applicability or carry over for a job, i can not agree that a degree in Literature is as socially valuable as a degree in Engingeering. while there are certainly "soft" benefits in having people exposed to these degrees, the fact is, certain classes are low hanging fruit.

EDIT: "taking a degree in folklore, defaulting on your student loans because the only job you can find after graduation is in a coffee shop is a bad thing"

crap, which i would've read that before posting my incoherent reply. excellent point! and the sad thing is, this hypo describes the majority of people that I know that came out of the UC system. it would've described me, too, had I not sold out and learned to enjoy the taste of blood.

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Another point...

back in high school I remember having to contend with teachers with education degrees

and no experience or background with anything else...


I had a math teacher I cornered one day while working on some problems, and I asked " How do you apply this ? "

She didn't have a clue as to any practical use for what she was trying to teach... She was repeating what was in the book with no real understanding of it at all...

Education Degree, ten years teaching math... = Fail


Someone set a trashcan on fire in the hallway, and she didn't even know how to work an extinguisher...


Later, I went through Math Courses taught by engineers and designers... and my grades were higher.. I had a much better understanding of the material as when I asked " How do you use this " the answer would be something I could picture and relate to... which is how many people learn.


So even with both a education degree, and a decade of experience... was this teacher living to her potential, or did her education fail her even though it provided security...

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Quote:

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Originally posted by mincingbeast:
education is getting cut. there is absolutely no way around this short term, and there is plenty of blame to assign. nobody disagrees that cutting education hurts, but if any positive effect comes from the protests, it will merely be venting frustration with the economic reality we face. of course, i'd be frustrated too if the funding that puts students in seats was slashed, while administrators and other worthless bureucrats continue to receive lucrative salaries.

i'm with gino on this one. i don't not beleive that classes in say, jewish studies or african american studies are valueless. these classes, and majors, represent important areas of knowledge that are worth developing. but, as a fellow who earned a BA with very little applicability or carry over for a job, i can not agree that a degree in Literature is as socially valuable as a degree in Engingeering. while there are certainly "soft" benefits in having people exposed to these degrees, the fact is, certain classes are low hanging fruit.

EDIT: "taking a degree in folklore, defaulting on your student loans because the only job you can find after graduation is in a coffee shop is a bad thing"

crap, which i would've read that before posting my incoherent reply. excellent point! and the sad thing is, this hypo describes the majority of people that I know that came out of the UC system. it would've described me, too, had I not sold out and learned to enjoy the taste of blood.

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2 friends come to mind

the first took a degree in political science

defaulted on her loans after trying to pay them and live on minimum wage for a year... moved to Korea to teach English... last I heard from her


Another guy took a communications degree, sold computers for Dell for the next five years scraping by, paying his loans

He lucked out marrying a nice girl who works doing something computer related in the banking industry...

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Rue, you nailed it perfectly about California, on every point. Prop 13 is a mess, and one of the largest reasons for our problems. Well to go back, REAGAN was a mess, and one of the largest reasons for our problems. Good old "trickle down"...

Prop 13 does help the elderly who stay put--we bought in 1975 and our property taxes are puny compared to today's values. If we sell, because of our age we can buy in county and the property taxes will not be raised on what we buy! It's lovely for a very few (and all those you mentioned), but it's been bankrupting the state for years.

The 2/3 majority is also a major problem, and why our budgets EVERY YEAR are late, people suffer, etc. We sometimes have good ideas in CA--other times we are just the crazies people think we are. I blame Reagan.

Mincing, while I agree with some, I've never seen any sense of entitlement in any of the Californians I know. Mostly I see a stronger willingness to raise taxes to pay for good things--like our high recycling rate, etc. Maybe that's just No. Ca., 'cuz I saw the same thing in the Santa Clara valley and SF. So maybe it's my OWN naivte talking...

Gino, I take your point, but happen to believe those courses ARE important. People need to be more “rounded” and not just turned out as working drones. Rue covers it for me, all the way down the line. I agree with you in principle, for what you’re saying, but I will continue to hold the belief that people need to be more well rounded and have the opportunity to explore their possibilities. I cam out of the junior college system; I took lots and lots of interesting classes, but I also took about four “business” classes. Those classes helped me gain a job as a file clerk, and I went up from there. A degree in anything BUT business would have gotten me there a bit faster, I dunno, but I treasure all the other classes I took far above the business ones. So I guess we come from two different places. For me, in today’s working world, it’s not as important what your degree is IN as what classes you TAKE. Tons of people with prefectl valid degrees can’t get jobs and have to start from the bottom and move up, despite their fancy degrees. I guess I’m in favor of expanding the human mind, as opposed to narrowing it. Just my opinion.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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