Plane crashes into IRS building in Austin, Texas

POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Monday, October 18, 2021 05:26
VIEWED: 20952
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WULFENSTAR

Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:21 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/18/texas.plane.crash/index.html?hpt=T1

Apparently the guy set fire to his house, then stole the plane.

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:29 PM

"12:42 p.m.: The pilot of the plane had set his house on fire beforehand, stole the plane and crashed it intentionally, a federal official told CNN."

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

KWICKO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:32 PM

Yup, my wife just called me and told me about it. It's all over the local news.

http://www.kvue.com/news/local/Officials-investigating-plane-crash-as-
a-crime-84714402.html

Not good.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

KWICKO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:42 PM

His alleged "manifesto" posted here:

http://www.businessinsider.com/joseph-andrew-stacks-insane-manifesto-2
010-2

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

KWICKO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:52 PM

Now they're reporting that the building also houses the local CIA office.

It's NOT the *main* IRS building here in Austin - that's at Woodward and IH-35. It was just a 7-story building where the IRS rents some office space. And apparently the CIA does, too.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

AURAPTOR

Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:56 PM

Quote:
Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.

Sounds a bit like PirateNews......

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

KWICKO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:12 PM

Plane not stolen - it was owned by the guy who crashed it into the building, Joseph Andrew Stack.

And reading his manifesto, he sounds like the kind of right-wing, home-grown domestic terrorist that Homeland Security was warning against. Wouldn't be a bit surprised if he turned out to be a tea-bagger.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

AURAPTOR

Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Plane not stolen - it was owned by the guy who crashed it into the building, Joseph Andrew Stack.

And reading his manifesto, he sounds like the kind of right-wing, home-grown domestic terrorist that Homeland Security was warning against. Wouldn't be a bit surprised if he turned out to be a tea-bagger.

Only one small problem. He wasn't. If anything, he sounds like a nut case

The last line of his 'rant'....

Quote:

As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws......

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

STORYMARK

Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:31 PM

Regardless of whether he was a Tea Partier or not, some of the Tea Party sites are implying tghis is a good thing - the beginning of their big revolution.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

AURAPTOR

Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:39 PM

I'm sure he'll appeal to the extremes on both ends of the spectrum.

" The Gov't left me to rot... " ??

Most 'Tea Party " supporters would be GLAD if the Gov't did as much!

And the bail out of big Corporations, while WE THE PEOPLE are left with the bill..... seems like anyone w/ some common sense ( ut oh..Thomas Paine reference...TEA BAGGER ALERT! ) might be at least a bit put out. This guy, however, went way over board.

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

KWICKO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:47 PM

Quote:
I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.
I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less.

Sounds pretty tea-baggy to me.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:54 PM

See, YOU introduced that sort of political b.s. into the discussion, not I.

Thankfully, it sounds like the nut case who did this was the only one to die.

But you continue to live in your own little moon bat world.

It only verifies and clarifies just what an intellectual midget I've been wasting my time with all this time. Thanks for that, if nothing else.

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

RUE

Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:03 PM

Kwicko

I read the thing, and most of the comments that were posted below at the time that I read it.

The guy does have some valid points. The government DOES represent the powerful all too often. (Though I would say we only have ourselves to blame - we are voting in the government we deserve, time after time.) And I can understand how he got to an extreme level of personal frustration over his individual situation. (I know too MANY people who have lost their jobs and their savings, are at the end of their unemployment and have lost their homes or are in jeopardy of it.)

It's hard to say what his ideology is though. It sounds as if he ran into some anti-tax group (ETA which are generally right-wing), and afterwards he could only see the world through that one lens. The 'Ah yes ! I see it all now ... it's all so clear !' insight that can go so terribly wrong if it's false.

But in general, it's too bad he discredits some good ideas.

And of course, I hope that no else one was hurt, and feel sorry that he was in so much mental pain.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

GEEZER

Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Regardless of whether he was a Tea Partier or not, some of the Tea Party sites are implying this is a good thing - the beginning of their big revolution.

Haven't been able to find any of this by googling 'tea party plane crash'. Got any links? Most comments seem to be Tea Partiers expecting that the liberals will blame them for the crash.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

STORYMARK

Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:33 PM

I'm looking. All I did was Google the last line from his screed, "From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed." and clicked on one that claimed to be one of the biggest Tea Party sites. I work from a different computer after lunch, so it's not in my history, and there are so many hits when I google that now, that it'll take me a bit.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

ECGORDON

Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:55 PM

Hey, Kwicko, where is this building? Hwy 183 right? What's the nearest cross street?

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:03 PM

Ream me if you like, but I don't feel a bit fucking sorry about the matter, and I've said over and over again when you put the damn squeeze on folk as hard as has been done lately, they start thinking of doing shit like this.

Having been an independent contractor, and run flat OUT of the business of driving a cab because I was actually LOSING MONEY ON IT, thanks to the gawdawful taxes, something which I've discussed in explicit detail here more than once, and making what really amounts to mere-subsistence income from operating a smallish business, believe me when I tell you just how brutal the tax reaming is if you haven't sold your soul to a corporate empire.

You back folks that damn deep into a corner, they start gettin ideas, and frankly I am surprised it took this long for an incident like this, and I goddamn guarantee you it will not be the last.

Look, I realize the deep-seated knee-jerk reflex to wanna disavow the guy because of the horribly violent means by which he made his point, which no doubt cost innocent lives besides the IRS flunkies, most of whom are in fact just trying to make a living just the same as the rest of us and not likely too happy about working for an organization everyone rightfully despises, but one does what one must to survive, sure...

But our rapacious "system" pushed the guy too far, and just like Marvin Heemeyer, when you push someone THAT FAR, when you leave them with NOTHING TO LOSE cause you have taken everything that ever mattered to then, and have left them no avenue of recourse beyond vengeance, this is the natural consequence of that action - hasn't the situation in Palestine brought this home to you ?

When you take ALL hope from a person, any chance of recourse, smack them down time and time again till they got no hope of anything but more misery, make their life a hell of slaving to enrich the elite, with no escape...

You shouldn't be surprised when they do things like this, any more than the hopeless misery of our traditional "system" and "X more years of pure hell" causes school shootings.

You push ANY creature on the planet into a corner and just keep kicking it, over and over, and over - you are GOING to get bit.

This ain't got shit to do with partisan politics, it's got everything to do with our rapacious system squeezing harder and harder, and that's like trying to crush a handful of sand, the harder you squeeze, the more slips through your fingers - people ain't got shit LEFT anymore, and one thing living in the ghetto taught me is that when someone has damn near to nothin left, they WILL kill you to keep what they have, civilization itself breaks down at that point, cause if you shove someone below a tolerable standard of survival, violence is inevitable.

So no, I am *NOT* going to decry his actions, not one damned bit - but nor will I applaud them, my primary feelings on it are regret that he felt it had come to that, and sorrow for the folks who got killed in that mess, underneath a pure, driven rage at a legal, social and political system that pushes people so far into a corner that they feel something like this is their only recourse.

The man made his choice, and really, what choice did we, all of us who have ever supported or aided that system in any way, really give him ?

Flame me if you will, it will not change how I feel about it.

-Frem
There always has to be a price.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:14 PM

Hell, I don't disavow this guy at all.

Hes the first, but probably wont be the last.

Just a shame he wasted himself on this.

As to the IRS and the CIA... couldnt care one bit.

THEY are a huge part of the problem with our home, and the sooner they learned that they need to get stepping right out the door, the better.

Yeah, of course... the Tea-bagging comments have started...

But let me ask you this.. isn't it BETTER that those so called "teabaggers" are trying to say that what he did was wrong? Cus just imagine what would happen if folks started seeing what he did as being RIGHT?

KWICKO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Hey, Kwicko, where is this building? Hwy 183 right? What's the nearest cross street?

MoPac - it's right there at the mixmaster, in the Echelon office park. Arboretum area.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

KWICKO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Regardless of whether he was a Tea Partier or not, some of the Tea Party sites are implying this is a good thing - the beginning of their big revolution.

Haven't been able to find any of this by googling 'tea party plane crash'. Got any links? Most comments seem to be Tea Partiers expecting that the liberals will blame them for the crash.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

I'm sure Dick Cheney will be along momentarily to blame Obama for it. ;)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:41 PM

(whisteling to myself)

KWICKO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Hell, I don't disavow this guy at all.

Hes the first, but probably wont be the last.

Just a shame he wasted himself on this.

As to the IRS and the CIA... couldnt care one bit.

THEY are a huge part of the problem with our home, and the sooner they learned that they need to get stepping right out the door, the better.

Yeah, of course... the Tea-bagging comments have started...

But let me ask you this.. isn't it BETTER that those so called "teabaggers" are trying to say that what he did was wrong? Cus just imagine what would happen if folks started seeing what he did as being RIGHT?

Hell, Wulfie - you just DID say that what he did was right.

I get that he has a beef. It might even be a legitimate beef. I've said this before about Bin Laden, too. Where he loses me - where all these fuckers lose me - is with his ACTIONS in airing his beef.

And I'd like to point out that the first time I ever said here that I could understand why Bin Laden might have a beef with the West, there was a rush of "patriots" wanting to hang me from the nearest phone pole.

Apparently that sentiment doesn't run quite as strongly when a home-grown tax protestor terrorist attacks our country using the same general methods...

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:51 PM

Kwick,

Its really simple.

No outsider fucks with us.

We handle our own shit. Even if it means against those that are in "power".

You dont come to my home, as a stranger, and hurt my family.

At the same time, if you are a drunken bastard hurting us... you pay as well. If need be, we will replace you....

(yes, being vague IS a hobby of mine, thank you very much)

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
But let me ask you this.. isn't it BETTER that those so called "teabaggers" are trying to say that what he did was wrong? Cus just imagine what would happen if folks started seeing what he did as being RIGHT?

That's what bothers me the most, Wulfie.

Folks these days, and lets leave politics out of it whatsoever, feel really backed into a corner legally and financially, a lot of them are in truly desperate straits, and might be gettin... ideas.

To be honest, I wasn't expecting this to be the first big bang, you know what my assessment woulda been ?

A farmer who's just been undercut by either a bank fucking him over, or big agro calling in political markers and eminent domain to grab his land for pennies on the dollar, loading up his truck with ANFO (which is what farmers use to blast stumps and the like) and waxing the bank or city hall, respectively.

As you may recall, I called it pretty close on the "take you to hell with me" response to foreclosure-happy banks...
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5244051.html
And on someone eventually bombing/vandalizing a recruitment center in response to egregariously aggressive recruitment efforts.
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123089181

The irony of which is that both of those actions *did*, for a while after, put a chill on the behavior they were in response to, which of course went right back on course after the "heat" and public ire faded.

Thing is... ok, picture it like a dam.

I can see the pressure cracks, and am concerned that without relief of the pressure, the dam is gonna blow, and cause all manner of needless strife that gets all the wrong people hurt, see ?

That's where most Anarchists, and even V got it wrong, you let social order come apart like that, you'd damn well BETTER have some patches, glue and new fabric handy, cause if you ain't got shit to fix or replace it...
(And didn't we learn from our efforts in Iraq?)
Then things go all to hell in a handbasket.

That's why I've been workin years and years on reweaving the fabric instead of tearing rents in it, cause if it rips too far, all the wrong people wind up payin for it.

So yeah, I am concerned, cause there's not ENOUGH patchwork to handle a really big tipover, and look at history, specifically the french revolution, and the points made about skimming the top layer of assholes off, over and over again, without something better ready to go, you're only gonna dump the assholes we got for a NEW set of assholes no better and probably worse, over and over again, see ?

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss..."

So don't be fooled in the first place, yes ?
I'm not bashin ya, here.

Just sayin, think it ALL THE WAY THROUGH, before you encourage or discourage folk to do, or not do, something, awright ?

-Frem

KWICKO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Kwick,

Its really simple.

No outsider fucks with us.

We handle our own shit. Even if it means against those that are in "power".

You dont come to my home, as a stranger, and hurt my family.

At the same time, if you are a drunken bastard hurting us... you pay as well. If need be, we will replace you....

(yes, being vague IS a hobby of mine, thank you very much)

You're okay with FAMILY hurting your family, then. Is that it?

By the way, shouldn't we be rounding up this guy's family and shipping them off to Gitmo to begin their torture sessions? It's what we do, right? I mean, they might have information on upcoming attacks, right?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

CHRISISALL

Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

That's why I've been workin years and years on reweaving the fabric instead of tearing rents in it, cause if it rips too far, all the wrong people wind up payin for it.

Precisely.

The laughing Chrisisall

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

So yeah, I am concerned, cause there's not ENOUGH patchwork to handle a really big tipover, and look at history, specifically the french revolution, and the points made about skimming the top layer of assholes off, over and over again, without something better ready to go, you're only gonna dump the assholes we got for a NEW set of assholes no better and probably worse, over and over again, see ?

Double Precisely. Look at the Middle East... What happens if we're just not up to it though? What if it's just layer after layer of assholes?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:28 PM

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/18/stack.letter.pdf

Parts of this are almost poetic.

"But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change."

STORYMARK

Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Hell, I don't disavow this guy at all.

Hes the first, but probably wont be the last.

....
But let me ask you this.. isn't it BETTER that those so called "teabaggers" are trying to say that what he did was wrong? Cus just imagine what would happen if folks started seeing what he did as being RIGHT?

Whatever salient points he may have had - when he tried to burn his wife and kid to death, he earned membership in the "Fuck off, I'm glad you're dead" club.

And if you see what he did as right, well... same club.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

KWICKO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/18/stack.letter.pdf

Parts of this are almost poetic.

"But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change."

You mean "pathetic", not "poetic".

Or are you wishing you had a plane right about now?

To martyr oneself for Islam has always seemed such an idiotic thing to do. I can't imagine how much more idiotic it is to martyr oneself for the IRS...

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

KWICKO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Hell, I don't disavow this guy at all.

Hes the first, but probably wont be the last.

....
But let me ask you this.. isn't it BETTER that those so called "teabaggers" are trying to say that what he did was wrong? Cus just imagine what would happen if folks started seeing what he did as being RIGHT?

Whatever salient points he may have had - when he tried to burn his wife and kid to death, he earned membership in the "Fuck off, I'm glad you're dead" club.

And if you see what he did as right, well... same club.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

Yuppers. Other reports are saying that he killed the family cat by lighting it on fire as well.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Kwick,

Its really simple.

No outsider fucks with us.

We handle our own shit. Even if it means against those that are in "power".

You dont come to my home, as a stranger, and hurt my family.

At the same time, if you are a drunken bastard hurting us... you pay as well. If need be, we will replace you....

(yes, being vague IS a hobby of mine, thank you very much)

But your ok with being the outsider who goes and fucks with others?

Bullshit

you have a window to handle your own shit, and if you drop the ball, its only fair when the fucked over, come over and try to do that job themselves.

What else could you expect ?

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Ream me if you like, but I don't feel a bit fucking sorry about the matter, and I've said over and over again when you put the damn squeeze on folk as hard as has been done lately, they start thinking of doing shit like this.

Oh you can start thinking it, fantasise about it as much as you want, just don't do it.

Where do people get off taking their grievances out in a manner that endangers innocent lives, or worse, deliberately destroys innocent lives. It's the pinnacle of the individialism of our society.

"I'm pissed off, unhappy, in despair - so I'm going to make sure I inflict a dose of that on others. Fuck em all. I am the centre of the universe."

Kind of seems to be increasingly common in the US, and it happens here as well and it says a lot about the way we live.

IREMISST

Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Thankfully, it sounds like the nut case who did this was the only one to die.

Unfortunately, was just watchin' the news and they are reporting One! person missing (and in that kind of mess you know what that means,) Two people critically injured! and a dozen other injuries, all people probably trying to just feed their families, like the rest of us...
He shoulda taken out some of those Bernie Madoff a##holes! and really proven his point...

Also, I was thinking about this kinda thing last Monday and was wondering how many other people do something like this on a smaller scale and we never hear about it? There's an awful lot of people being pushed to the limit every day in this country, but how many natives do something like this?

IREMISST

Friday, February 19, 2010 12:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Hes the first, but probably wont be the last.

I wouldn't say he's the first to carry out acts of aggression because of Big Brother, remember a little thing called the Oklahoma City Bombing?

Different problems, same intent, Blame Government, only Tim McVeigh probably won't ever be called a hero, whereas I'm sure some people probably will be calling this guy one tomorrow...

PIRATENEWS

Friday, February 19, 2010 12:06 AM

Say goodbye to freedom for private pilots at private airports

BREAKING NEWS: FBI KNEW AUSTIN ATTACK WAS COMING... FBI AGENTS WERE IN PLACE AT THE KAMIKAZE BUILDING READY BEFOR THE ATTACK... LIHOP OR MIHOP PSYOP?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/source-fbi-knew-austin-attack-was-coming.h
tml

VIDEO Eyewitness Says Hazmat Teams In Place Before Plane Crash:

Quote:
A trusted source has told this office that the FBI knew Austin was going to be attacked today and had dispatched officers from its Dallas headquarters yesterday afternoon to be in place for today’s incident.

The source claims that a confidential memo was circulated yesterday detailing that a building in Austin was going to be the target of an attack today. He was told this by an informant who works in the Dallas FBI office.

Four FBI agents hurriedly left the Dallas office yesterday to be ready and on the scene for the aftermath of the incident, according to the informant, who was shaken when he saw events unfolding today and put two and two together.

The fact that pilot Joe Stack changed his manifesto at least 27 times before the final version suggests that he had been writing it for days and this could have been what tipped off the FBI in the build up to the attack.

The claim dovetails with reports we are receiving from Austin residents that the FBI were immediately on the scene after the plane crash and were filming both the building and eyewitnesses.

A separate witness told KXAN News that there were Hazmat teams and fire trucks in place across the street before the plane struck the building.

Infowars reporters who spoke to neighbors at Stack’s house, which he had burned down before crashing the plane, expressed surprise at how quick emergency services responded to the fire. One neighbor, named Elbert, said that emergency crews arrived five minutes after he made the 911 call.

Meet Joe Stack, "A Steely Dan kinda domestic terrorist?"

Meet Joe Stack's band

Austin Plane Crash Labeled “Right-Wing Domestic Terror Attack” By Obama Supporters
http://www.infowars.com/austin-plane-crash-labeled-right-wing-domestic
-terror-attack-by-obama-supporters/

Austin Suicide Pilot Posted Anti-IRS Screed
WHY NO SUICIDE NOTE TO HIS FRIENDS, FAMILY, WIFE AND KID? WHY WAS HIS WIFE AND KID IN THE HOUSE WHEN IT BURNED DOWN?
http://www.infowars.com/austin-suicide-pilot-posted-anti-irs-screed/
http://mashable.com/2010/02/18/austin-plane-crash/

NTSB Says Austin Plane Crash Targeted IRS
http://www.infowars.com/ntsb-says-austin-plane-crash-targeted-irs/

The Austin Texas Bombing Is A HUGE Image Blow To The “Tea Party”
http://www.infowars.com/the-austin-texas-bombing-is-a-huge-image-blow-
to-the-tea-party/

Pilot’s Friends Shocked: Stack Was “Easy Going Guy”
http://www.prisonplanet.com/pilots-friends-shocked-stack-was-easy-goin
g-guy.html

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Plane not stolen - it was owned by the guy who crashed it into the building, Joseph Andrew Stack.

And reading his manifesto, he sounds like the kind of right-wing, home-grown domestic terrorist that Homeland Security was warning against. Wouldn't be a bit surprised if he turned out to be a tea-bagger.

Stack was a software contractor CIA and Pentagon, including REMOTE CONTROL PROGRAMMING.

Quote:
EmbeddableArt.com Company Profile

Embedded Art is a small independent software house, specializing in process control and automation. In its current form it represents the culmination of 20 years of experience in the software development consulting business. Founded by Joe Stack in 1983 (under the name of Prowess Engineering) in Southern California, the company thrived for 15 years until shifting focus to the Sacramento area to take advantage of growth in the Silicon Valley.

Now, 5 years later, the expertise of Embedded Art has landed

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

KWICKO

Friday, February 19, 2010 12:15 AM

Quote:
Say goodbye to freedom for private pilots at private airports

Yup. This guy really didn't do ANYTHING with his bullshit, except make life harder for every pilot out there, and give the government just the ammo it needs to get tougher on security theater.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

PIRATENEWS

Friday, February 19, 2010 1:36 AM

That's a lot of fire and smoke from a plane the size of an SUV... Hear multiple bombs, smell like cordite, like the Pentagon on 9/11?
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2010/02/meet-joe-stack-kamikaze-pilo
t.html

Quote:
"Crash + Fire = thermal expansion/contraction = imminent collapse."
-NIST statement on 9/11/2001 collapse of World Trade Center 7 that was never hit by a airliner

The Austin Fed Building will collapse in a cloud of dust covering all of Austin! AAAAARRRRRGGGGG!!!!!!!

How did a small plane bounce off the wall and destroy 2 sides of a large building? Oh that's right, the Boomerang Effect!

Amazing Pentalawn on 9/11
http://www.thewebfairy.com/killtown/pentalawn.html
http://killtown.911review.org/
http://killtown.blogspot.com/

SIGNYM

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:05 AM

Quote:
But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change.

Guy's an idiot, and I feel sorry for him. If he's so willing to go outside the law, of all the things he COULDA done I can think of a couple of dozen that would be SO much more effective.

What a dupe.

What a shame.

KWICKO

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:12 AM

Well, let's see... This was the IRS office where they handled the "appeals of last resort"... this was NOT the *main* IRS headquarters in Austin, where hundreds (if not thousands) of IRS agents work.

Any bets that this guy had a meeting there, and it didn't go his way, so he decided to take it out on them personally?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:48 AM

That's kinda where imma put it - what a shame.

Thing is, he really did TRY every bloody thing he could imagine, one must remember that other people do not necessarily have the knowledge or resources some of us do, where to even look, or even knowledge that they exist.

And unlike most people who "go kaboom" he didn't just randomly lash out, either, as mikey notes.

Doesn't make him a hero, and I refuse to call him a villain, what it makes him is... human, fragile and flawed, like any of us, and frankly, under the wrong circumstances, that could BE us, any one of us - you've all thought it, sometimes, even if you'll not admit it.

And THAT, is what scares you, that the same horror lies within you.
It shouldn't, cause really it's never so much what you think and feel as what you DO, and not everyone passes that test every day, and some people snap, sure.

But my point is that our social, political, legal and economic structure make it INEVITABLE when they press people so hard that they have no hope left, for it is the death of hope which leads to people taking such actions, the idea that the current suffering and misery is all there is, all there will EVER be - that's what makes people strap on bombs and walk into cafes, that's what makes children pick up guns and shoot down their peers, and that's what makes ordinary people do things like this.

Remember I deal with seriously broken people, many of whom never, until our intervention, knew anything BUT abuse, to them that's just how it is, always was, and always will be, which is why so many kill themselves.

Some small percentage of folks backed into a corner don't fall into self-destruction or escapism, often via drugs, though - they CHOOSE to opt out, at which point no amount of reason is going to appeal to them, they're the walking dead, and there's nothing on the planet more dangerous than a person who has utterly nothing left to lose of value to them, not even their life - and and even smaller percentage choose to make one final stand on the way out, this HAPPENS, again, it's inevitable.

I can tell you FOR A FACT, that intervention at or near that point.. is pointless, it won't matter or affect anything one damned bit, if you wanna stop one of these wrecking balls, you'd damned well better do it a LOT earlier, when there is still a percentage, a possibility, of offering them some hope - and it better be honest, it better be REAL hope, or you're just changing their eventual target.

It's too late to save him, or anyone he did for in his self-destruction, but you oughta be thinking about all those OTHER people going tick, tick, tick, slowly getting crushed into similar corners by our systems.

THAT is where your attention should be.

I know better than any how close I came to maybe goin out that way up against the hellcamps, but then, that's what makes a Dark Spark, when they decide that one final blowout is not ENOUGH, and spend themselves instead upon preventing the very conditions that make them what they are.

Revenge is, as a general rule, as pointless as it is futile, and like the old proverb says, dig both graves first, cause it'll destroy you as well.
But push someone to where that price is WORTH it, cause they got nothin left but a life they no longer want...

(For those unfamiliar with the series, the Hell Girl's "price" is that the petitioner is ALSO condemned to hell - for all eternity, and yet, they still pull the string, don't they ?)

You wanna stop this crap, then work at changing things so people aren't pushed into those corners, blinded to and ignorant of other options, and left in a position where this not only seems a good idea, but the ONLY idea.

Of course, the downside of that is the possibility of creating Dark Sparks, and whether or no that's a good idea is on your conscience.

-F

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, February 19, 2010 4:00 AM

Re: Dark Spark.

Ok, how to explain this one without giving too much away...

Alright, first understand that we have a structure that preserves the status quo at all costs, primarily among them our innate humanity.

Problem with that is, that happens to be the most useful and valuable part of us, and despite the fact that we're screwheads, nature hasn't given up on us yet as a bad idea - and so while I didn't used to think it, having a long perspective of view on this issue, I believe Dark Sparks are natures counter to our stagnation (civilization was a beginning, not the end point!) just as much as the more recent phenomenon of ritalin-resistant kids are, cause nature finds a way, and reacts accordingly.

They come in two flavors, too, Potential and Prime, potentials are just that, you raise em in a positive, happy, loving environment and you get a person who's maybe a bit odd, but otherwise normal - but if you traumatize em, if you put the squeeze on em, heaven help you, cause you just pulled the trigger...

Primes come with that trigger pre-pulled, and seem to wind up like that irregardless of environment or experiences.

What they are, is strong Byronic personalities with a high degree of charisma backed up by strong associative thought process that is largely comparitive, and thus depends on a substantial information base to make it most effective.

And what they DO, is retaliate.

I don't mean tit for tat, neither, you screw with a DS, you pull back a STUMP, if you're lucky - they generally gravitate towards something that "just ain't right" and make it their bitch.

The party responsible, all of their enablers, the social fabric that creates em and allows em to exist, their financial and legal support structure, the political environment they survive in, everything, anything, all of it - every weak spot, every flaw, they'll be there pounding a spike in, cussin and howling, and their own charisma pulls people into helping them.

From a mental aspect, it's like being hunted by a terminator.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheUnfettered

There's various degrees of competence and ability, and honestly most of em self-destruct, mentally implode, or burn out into hollow shells, as well as being tripped up by their own personal flaws (I said Byronic, look it up.) but having one of em on your ass is a nightmare and a half.

This poor sodder here wasn't one...
But in comparison and contrast ?
This guy *IS*.

Fighting back
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=41671

They won't just hoist you on your own petard, they'll ram it down your throat and pound it home with a sledgehammer.

Which is why I feel a tremendous amount of sympathy for a certain of our posters, cause even being on the giving end of that sledgehammer ain't no picnic when it wasn't your choice in the first place.

-F
PS. bear with me, pressed for time and with a lot of info to convey...

KWICKO

Friday, February 19, 2010 4:31 AM

There are now about a half a dozen "Joe Stack is a HERO!" facebook pages up, full of people congratulating him for "sticking it to the man".

And I found this posted at a place called goldismoney.info:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMac00
AMERICAN HERO.

A bigger and better man than any of us...including myself. We are all just talk.

My current avatar is the first photo released publicly of Joseph Stack, American Hero

It's weird, because I really don't remember that many American "patriots" praising Bin Laden as a real American hero for "sticking it to the man" on 9/11. I'm sure there were government employees in the Trade Center towers, right? And he definitely "stuck it to the man" when the plane hit the Pentagon, right?

So why were y'all so mad at Bin Laden, exactly? Was it just because he was so much better at "sticking it to the man" than your typical American yahoo?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, February 19, 2010 4:52 AM

Re: DS Charisma, Compulsion.

The charisma thing deserves more explaination, we call it "the igor effect", they got a decent bit to begin with, but when they get on a roll it's like a friggin gravitational vortex.

You start out goin wow-neat and making suggestions/handing tools, and the next thing you know you're right there with em chuckling darkly and as pumped about it as they are!

That bein one of the reasons I play so hard-melodrama to type (evil overlord), cause it keeps folk from taking it seriously long enough to get caught in the pull...

And I did mention the lack of choice, right ?

It's not so much they WANT to act, it's that they HAVE to, it's a friggin compulsion as strong as anything out of the OCD playbook, thankfully most of em don't have it as bad as that, but they're DRIVEN to do it, Justin ain't far from the truth when he rails at me for being a compulsively meddling busybody.

And that is what makes it REALLY suck, cause while you can resist it for a while... doing so for too long will start to make you crazy.

So it's not exactly all that fun when you *can't* let it go, ok ?

-Frem
PS. Which explains the sympathy, you see...

PIRATENEWS

Friday, February 19, 2010 7:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

And what they DO, is retaliate.

I don't mean tit for tat, neither, you screw with a DS, you pull back a STUMP, if you're lucky - they generally gravitate towards something that "just ain't right" and make it their bitch.

The party responsible, all of their enablers, the social fabric that creates em and allows em to exist, their financial and legal support structure, the political environment they survive in, everything, anything, all of it - every weak spot, every flaw, they'll be there pounding a spike in, cussin and howling, and their own charisma pulls people into helping them.

From a mental aspect, it's like being hunted by a terminator.

KILLDOZER...

http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2008/02/killdozer-flattens-crooked-c
ity-council.html

Yes, these folks are not stupid, and are often successful business owners with advanced education. They can compute chess moves farther in advance than the average person, thus they out compete them. They creatively think outside the box, thus almost nobody can anticipate their next move.

What's extra scary is DARPA psychopaths with 190 IQs and warehouses full of supercomputers actually indentifying these guys and gals via Echelon, then "controlling" them covertly via various Tesla technologies, probably without the need for in-patient torture sessions. All they gotta do is fuck with their finances (IRS and Wall Street) and give em a nudge in the wrong direction. Meth and crack are CIA inventions. Operation Bingo.

That's one step away from the Cold Revolution heating up to a hot Civil War. Which can get out of control of the Illuminated Ones, like the French Revolution... Then everybody loses their heads.

The Feds ARE the enemy of USA, and have been waging treasonous war against USA for over 50 years. Not one penny of IRS revenue funds the US Govt, the income tax is illegal and voluntary, and most folks know that now. The jig is up for the jews in the "Federal" Reserve Bank...

Why is it called psychopathy when a lone US citizen makes a premeditated homicide against govt tyranny? The Founding Fathers and US history books call that patriotism. But when the Feds genocide 2.5-million defenseless Iraqis who committed no crime, that's called "good govt"? That way of thinking truly is insane.

But I doubt this kamikaze bass player did this crash on purpose, since he designed remote control Terminator jets for the Pentagon. Hijack his plane by remote control, with him dead or alive before takeoff. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone. For all we know his wife was his handler, which explains why she was allegedly in the house when it caught on fire.

PS: It appears only 1 person died in Austin -- the "pilot". Sounds like the IRS building may have gotten a warning the evacuate before impact, just like WTC on 9/11...

PIRATENEWS

Friday, February 19, 2010 7:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Don't tread on me.

Don't tread on me, or I'll crash my mutherfukkin plane into your mutherfukkin building!

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, February 19, 2010 12:25 PM

There's nothing to debate here...the guy was a fucking psychopath. Lots of delusional people out there like him that think they're "entitled" to something, or that they've been "wronged" by something or someone. Normal people suck it up and move on; demented maniacs seek revenge, which often includes killing innocents they deem responsible for their particular plight.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, February 19, 2010 1:38 PM

I disagree, Jongstraw.

You wanna talk entitlement problems, how bout that as an independant contractor, the Gov thinks it's entitled to more of my hard earned money than *I* get ?

You wanna talk about being wronged, how bout the insurance company which told me to piss off and die after a near fatal accident ?

People *DO* get fucked over by our systems, guy, that's an absolute, incontrovertible FACT.

Thing is, most folk have a limited, narrow worldview, and thus the options they can mentally "see" or conceive of are relatively limited, and when they get to the bottom of the barrel, when they've tried every bloody thing they can possibly dredge up from their consciousness and still they have no hope...

Then they either off themselves, sink into the escapist mire of drug abuse, have a total mental breakdown, or do something like this - often enough a combination of these things.

That doesn't make em evil man, it just makes em HUMAN.

Dude, that could be any of us, under the right/wrong circumstances, that's my POINT...

If you got pushed that far, if suddenly your whole damned world seemed a Kafkaesque parody with you as the butt of the joke, and all you had to look forward to was things gettin worse and worse - and you had someone to blame and a couple teaspoons of justification FOR that blame...

The denial you are makin there is the same bullshit excuse people throw at messed up kids, oh they were born evil, it wasn't OUR fault, WE didn't have nothing to do with it, OUR society isn't to blame... and that's what it is, that's ALL it is, just a fucking excuse.

An excuse to turn away, decry and deny any and all responsibility, make it not our problem, but it *is* our problem, even those of us who strive to the limit to not support or interact with that society still have to, because the other option is to refuse to comply, which gets you thrown under the prison if you cave, and very dead if you resist.

Think about how *I* feel having that massive tax bite, and then seeing it spent to murder folks I got no beef with, in a way that ensures the cycle of violence ?

Think about how *I* feel having deliberately and intentionally boycotted GM and their products for damned good reason and having that cash robbed from me to bail them out ?

No, I don't voluntarily support this society and system, but it's the only option I have while altering the social fabric at the source of it's creation in hopes of changing any damned thing on more than a temporary basis.

So don't make excuses, yeah, this guy is responsible for his own actions, and must face whatever hearafter and answer to them, but you can NOT lump the whole heap on him when you KNOW the system we all support, voluntarily or not, is exploitive and abusive in such a fashion as to drive folk to such lengths...

And that makes us, all of us, somewhat responsible too.

Whether we LIKE it, or not.

-F

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

I disagree, Jongstraw.

You wanna talk entitlement problems, how bout that as an independant contractor, the Gov thinks it's entitled to more of my hard earned money than *I* get ?

You wanna talk about being wronged, how bout the insurance company which told me to piss off and die after a near fatal accident ?

People *DO* get fucked over by our systems, guy, that's an absolute, incontrovertible FACT.

Thing is, most folk have a limited, narrow worldview, and thus the options they can mentally "see" or conceive of are relatively limited, and when they get to the bottom of the barrel, when they've tried every bloody thing they can possibly dredge up from their consciousness and still they have no hope...

Then they either off themselves, sink into the escapist mire of drug abuse, have a total mental breakdown, or do something like this - often enough a combination of these things.

That doesn't make em evil man, it just makes em HUMAN.

Dude, that could be any of us, under the right/wrong circumstances, that's my POINT...

If you got pushed that far, if suddenly your whole damned world seemed a Kafkaesque parody with you as the butt of the joke, and all you had to look forward to was things gettin worse and worse - and you had someone to blame and a couple teaspoons of justification FOR that blame...

The denial you are makin there is the same bullshit excuse people throw at messed up kids, oh they were born evil, it wasn't OUR fault, WE didn't have nothing to do with it, OUR society isn't to blame... and that's what it is, that's ALL it is, just a fucking excuse.

An excuse to turn away, decry and deny any and all responsibility, make it not our problem, but it *is* our problem, even those of us who strive to the limit to not support or interact with that society still have to, because the other option is to refuse to comply, which gets you thrown under the prison if you cave, and very dead if you resist.

Think about how *I* feel having that massive tax bite, and then seeing it spent to murder folks I got no beef with, in a way that ensures the cycle of violence ?

Think about how *I* feel having deliberately and intentionally boycotted GM and their products for damned good reason and having that cash robbed from me to bail them out ?

No, I don't voluntarily support this society and system, but it's the only option I have while altering the social fabric at the source of it's creation in hopes of changing any damned thing on more than a temporary basis.

So don't make excuses, yeah, this guy is responsible for his own actions, and must face whatever hearafter and answer to them, but you can NOT lump the whole heap on him when you KNOW the system we all support, voluntarily or not, is exploitive and abusive in such a fashion as to drive folk to such lengths...

And that makes us, all of us, somewhat responsible too.

Whether we LIKE it, or not.

-F

I respect your position Frem, and I know from many of your pevious posts that you do indeed have gripes about certain things, maybe even more than most, certainly more than me. That said, what is a sane person supposed to do about it? You can seek legal recourse sometimes if you have the money, or you can try to compromise with your antagonist if possible. Beyond that, unless you believe in taking the law into your own hand, I don't know what else people can do except take it.

SIGNYM

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:35 PM

Quote:
I don't know what else people can do except take it.

And THAT is the problem. If you're being screwed over by the system, what- exactly- are you supposed to do?

For example, one CA case: man and woman split up in bitter divorce. She gets the house. Man gets a home loan by forging her signature, welshes on the loan. First thing lady knows about it, the sheriff is at her door with an eviction notice. She takes the bank to court. CA Court of Appeals decides that it is more important the banks be allowed to loan money with reasonable assurance of collection than protecting any citizen from fraud, and allows the bank to take the home.

Well... within the law... go to your Congressperson... take out ads in the paper... look for an organization to help you protect your rights.... hold a single-person (or, if you're lucky, multi-person) demonstration... counter sue... But if you've been there, done that, got the T-shirt and mug...

Well, outside of the law...? Hmmm... not going to hand out any ideas, but I can think of a thing or two or three.

KWICKO

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Kwick,

Its really simple.

No outsider fucks with us.

By the way, Wulfie, you seem awful quick to lump people into general categories, like "outsiders" and "others".

Weren't you the one just the other day who said we shouldn't do that?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

SIGNYM

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:46 PM

WULF: Your boundary of "outsiders" and "insiders" is so frigging movable. Sometimes the outsiders are blacks. Sometimes woman. Sometimes non-nationals. Sometimes "libruls". Sometimes Muslims. Sometimes government workers.

Do you KNOW what you "really" mean? Or are you just kinda winging it, like you seem to be? Makes me think you shouldn't be trusted with a powerful idea like that.

KWICKO

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:49 PM

I think Frem's the closest to the gist of what I'm getting at. If you're going to take yourself out in a blaze of glory, then that's going to happen. But don't paint the one guy as a hero for doing it, and the next as a terrorist for doing the exact same thing. The only real differences I can see is that one of them was an American, and the other an "Outsider" as Wulfie labeled him - and of course, one of them was much, MUCH better at achieving his stated goals.

So if you're going to be whipping yourselves into a frenzy in your hero-worship bullshit, don't forget to pay homage to Bin Laden, who should be at least 3000 times the hero you find Joe Stack to be.

Me? If I ever get to that point, I'd like to think I'd have the decency to just take myself out, not try to burn the whole fucking world down with me. I'm sure his wife and daughter appreciate him leaving them homeless. What a selfless guy...

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

SIGNYM

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:53 PM

Well, if you're going to take yourself out in a blaze of glory, why not just rob a bank or two? And use that money to bankroll a movement? That's what Old Joe did!

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Well... within the law... go to your Congressperson... take out ads in the paper... look for an organization to help you protect your rights.... hold a single-person (or, if you're lucky, multi-person) demonstration... counter sue...

I've seen people take their "case" to the internet. Make a video, send it to You Tube, and hope it's good enough to get lots of people to watch. If you're very lucky it may sting your opponent so much that they capitulate or compromise.

SIGNYM

Friday, February 19, 2010 4:11 PM

Especially if you can sing.

Still my personal favorite: UNITED BREAKS GUITARS

KWICKO

Friday, February 19, 2010 4:21 PM

Yup, take it to "teh interwebs", take it to cable, take it to FauxSnooze or MSLSD, or your local rag, or SOMEWHERE - but DON'T just take it out on people who really have nothing to do with your problems.

And here's another tip for anyone planning on emulating Stack's example: If you have a quarter-million dollar plus home that you an afford to light on fire, and if you have your own airplane, you really don't get much sympathy from me about how "the man" is sticking it to you. Your wife and kid might get some sympathy, because they're now homeless thanks to your stupid selfish self-absorbed ass.

Immolation is not worthy of emulation.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

RUE

Friday, February 19, 2010 4:22 PM

DAMN !

Now it'll be in my head all day.

***************************************************************

UNITED ! united . united . united .

You broke my Taylor guitar ...

SIGNYM

Friday, February 19, 2010 4:40 PM

Let me help you along with that, Rue:

UNITED, United, United...
SOME big help you are!
You broke it, you should fix it.
You're liable, just admit it.
I should have gone with someone else,
Or gone by car....

(ALL TOGETHER NOW)

'Cause United breaks guitars!

That song, its an ear bug. I guarantee, I'll remember that long after I get Alzheimer's and forget all about Austin and what's-his-name.

RUE

Friday, February 19, 2010 4:44 PM

Ah - that voice in my head - got the words wrong. But not the tune ! Tunes, they really stick like glue. Maybe I should ask it to hum.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

NIKI2

Friday, February 19, 2010 4:54 PM

I didn't join this thread because I really have nothing to say on the matter, except sympathy for the family and horror at innocent people being killed and severely damaged. So I may be duplicating things already said; if so, apologies.

I find nothing to connect him to the Tea Party. Lots and lots of stuff about him being influenced by them, and decrying them for stirring up people's anger, etc. but no direct connection. Seems to me he was just a guy who was mentally unstable and reached the end of his rope.

It's not just what he writes about, although maybe some of it is in there, I haven't listened real close. But I heard there were marital tensions as well, and I can't help wondering just how much he was hounded if he had his own airplane and a big house...?

I just think it's sad, but I do agree that for people who might be on the edge, the anger, persecution and depression he showed is ripe for being enhanced by the anger the Tea Party is stirring up. Not that it's unjustified, just that I think it's carried to such extremes that it can influence people like this and make it easier for them to feel persecuted to the extent he did. That's all.

KWICKO

Friday, February 19, 2010 4:59 PM

The one common theme I keep seeing on the various right-wing and/or "tea party" blogs is a variation on this:

Quote:
I know I don't think conservatives need to point the finger but people have been constantly calling this guy a "tea bagger" when they ignore that he quoted KARL MARX, Bashed GW Bush, etc! He's a LIBERAL!

So it would seem that, to the tea-baggers, if you bash Bush, if you so much as quote Karl Marx (or possibly even mention his name!), then it must prove that they are "liberals".

So by the transitive property, can we agree that ANYONE who ever quotes Hitler in any way is a Nazi, or at the very least a white supremacist?

And maybe I'm off base on this one, but I thought the tea-baggers weren't real big fans of Dubya, either. Many of them have been saying they didn't like him, he was no conservative (and neither was McCain, remember), and they never supported him, but only voted for him a couple of times, and would again, but that wouldn't be like actually SUPPORTING the guy or any of his policies...

And NOW they're saying that anyone who bashes Bush is a liberal? Really?

So, I have to ask...

Are the tea-baggers REALLY "independent"? Or are they what many of us have always suspected, Republicans writ small, nothing more than wolves in cheap clothing?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

PIRATENEWS

Friday, February 19, 2010 5:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

There's nothing to debate here...the guy was a fucking psychopath. Lots of delusional people out there like him that think they're "entitled" to something, or that they've been "wronged" by something or someone. Normal people suck it up and move on; demented maniacs seek revenge, which often includes killing innocents they deem responsible for their particular plight.

IF this guy wasn't hijacked by remote control and killed before takeoff, then he had every right to do what he did, since the 16th Amendment income tax was never ratified by the States, and zero income tax revenue is used to run the US Govt. If Stack did this on purpose, then he is not a psychopath, he's a normal sane American citizen, and everyone who does not join the current Civil War is an insane coward or traitor. Warfare includes intelwar.

The only psychopaths are in the White House, Congress, FBI, DOJ, FAA and fed courts, and the illegal private "Federal" Reserve Bank owned and operated by jews for their personal profit that stole $25-trillion from the US taxslaves in the past 18 months under threat of martial law.

Attack in Austin: Outraged “Lone Wolf” or False Flag Op?
http://www.infowars.com/attack-in-austin-outraged-lone-wolf-or-false-f
lag-op/

Alex Jones TV World Exclusive Source: FBI Knew Austin Attack Was Coming
http://www.infowars.com/alex-jones-tv-world-exclusive-source-fbi-knew-
austin-attack-was-coming/

News That Joe Stack Was Not A Tea Party Member Disappoints Obamanoids
http://www.infowars.com/news-that-joe-stack-was-not-a-tea-party-member
-disappoints-obamanoids/

Austin Area Tea Party Leaders Speak Out About Joseph Stack Attack & Liberal Media Distortions
http://www.infowars.com/austin-area-tea-party-leaders-speak-out-about-
joseph-stack-attack-liberal-media-distortions/

Psychotic Alcoholic Drug Addict Glenn Beck Associates Tea Parties With Austin Bomber, Asks If Austin Bomber Is “Radical Constitutionalist”
http://www.infowars.com/glenn-beck-associates-tea-parties-with-austin-
bomber-asks-if-austin-bomber-is-radical-constitutionalist/

Texas Plane Crash: Did Suicidal Pilot Joe Stack Have Explosives on Board?
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/texas-plane-crash-authorities-investigating-
suicidal-pilot-joe/story?id=9885576

You’re Right, Joe Stack Wasn’t Bin Laden, He’s Just A Guy Who Went Postal
http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-youre-right-joe-stack-was
nt-bin-laden-hes-just-a-guy-who-went-postal-2010-2

Joseph Andrew Stack’s Fake Facebook Created by Emily Walters
http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=5608

Republican Version of Tea Party Funnels Money Back to GOP
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/majority_of_tea_part
y_groups_spending_went_to_gop.php

Man Bulldozes Home After Foreclosure
http://consumerist.com/2010/02/man-bulldozes-home-after-foreclosure.ht
ml

Quote:
"I didn't shoot nobody no Sir! I'm just a patsy!"
-Lee Harvey Oswald, US Naval Intelligence, USMC, Operation Mongoose in Operation Northwoods (murdered in jail 1 day later by kosher mobster strip-club owner Jacob Rubenstein)

"If the people knew what we had done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us.”
—President George H. W. Bush Sr Knight of the British Empire, conversation with US Army Intelligence agent and White House press corps Sarah McClendon, December 1992

Disgraced 9/11 Inside Job ‘hero’: Kosher NYPD Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik sentenced to 4 years in prison
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/nyregion/19kerik.html

"The FBI has issued a BOLO on suspected terrorists driving a white delivery van from New York City to the Mexican border. The suspects are using Israeli passports. They are armed and dangerous."
-Knox County TN Emergency 911 Dispatch, Sept 11, 2001, 11am EST
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0622-05.htm

"The goal has never been to get Bin Laden."
—General Richard Myers, chairman, US Joint Chiefs of Staff
http://www.myspace.com/911pressfortruth

"9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page. He h

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

STORYMARK

Friday, February 19, 2010 5:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Doesn't make him a hero, and I refuse to call him a villain...,

Fine, I will. This chump tried to murder his family. Fuck him. He can rot. He didn't have to be a villain, but he chose to.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

WULFENSTAR

Friday, February 19, 2010 5:51 PM

Ok, Ive posted almost 6 times now... but they are not seeming to get thru... why is that?

SIGNYM

Friday, February 19, 2010 6:02 PM

Huh. Maybe the FBI/ CIA/ NSA/ SS splicing into your internet connection???

Just joshing.

Besides, they've already DONE that. It's called warrantless wiretapping, and was done at the major routing hubs of AT&T etc.

Prolly a namerserver malfunction or some stupid thing.

But whatever the cause, apparently you're online again so- welcome back!

KWICKO

Friday, February 19, 2010 6:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ok, Ive posted almost 6 times now... but they are not seeming to get thru... why is that?

Sounds like you need to have a talk with Homeland Security. ;)

NIKI2

Friday, February 19, 2010 6:14 PM

I checked out all six, and from the responses you got, it should be obvious you aren't "getting through" because everyone disagrees with what you're saying, period. Not sure what you're hoping to "get through" to us, but the responses you got pretty much say it for me as well.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, February 19, 2010 6:43 PM

Not kidding here. Ive posted a couple of times, (long diatribes, Im sure) that were NOT posted.

This is pissing me off.

KWICKO

Friday, February 19, 2010 6:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Not kidding here. Ive posted a couple of times, (long diatribes, Im sure) that were NOT posted.

This is pissing me off.

Word to the wise: When posting a long diatribe, before you post it, highlight it and hit Control-C (Copy). That way, if it vanishes into the ether, you don't lose the whole thing, you just have to hit Ctrl-V (Paste) and it's back!

I learned this the hard way. A lot of times. :)

I don't do it that often, but I *DO* use it when I'm having connection issues, which I sometimes do with TimeWarner...

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

PIRATENEWS

Friday, February 19, 2010 7:03 PM

Majority of Americans support attacking IRS with violence:

NIKI2

Friday, February 19, 2010 7:06 PM

Happened to me, too, Wulf, more times than I'd like. VERY frustrating!!! When I know I'm going to do something long, I write it in Word then copy/paste it in. Unfortunately, I don't remember to do that often enough, or get going on something and it doesn't occur to me it's going to be long enough that, if I lose it, it's going to royally piss me off!

Alternatively, Mike's idea is a good one too.

KWICKO

Friday, February 19, 2010 7:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Majority of Americans support attacking IRS with violence:

Yeah, a huge number of Americans supported the invasion of Iraq, too. Hell, a huge number of Americans support American Idol and FauxSnooze - doesn't make 'em right!

IRS doesn't write the tax law; they just enforce it and collect the money that CONGRESS orders them to.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

PIRATENEWS

Friday, February 19, 2010 7:35 PM

I Don't Buy the Official Story of Joe Stack
http://wakeup1776.blogspot.com/2010/02/i-dont-buy-official-story-of-jo
e-stack.html

Joe Stack

Not Joe Stack

Now Joe Stack is censored from the news, while Tiger Woods pecker gets top billing.

Folks no longer believe the pathological liars in govt and corporate media.

PIRATENEWS

Friday, February 19, 2010 7:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Yeah, a huge number of Americans supported the invasion of Iraq, too. Hell, a huge number of Americans support American Idol and FauxSnooze - doesn't make 'em right!

IRS doesn't write the tax law; they just enforce it and collect the money that CONGRESS orders them to.

The Law says:

Quote:
"All laws repugnant to the Constitution are null and void."
-US Supreme Court, Marbury v Madison

16th Amendment for an income tax was never ratified by the States, and is unconstitutional.

Thus it is a CRIME for any IRS cop, prosecutor, judge or jury to enforce a law that does not exist. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

Deadly force in self defense is always allowed during false arrest.

White House and SCOTUS have now legalized "pre-emptive military strikes" on nations that never attacked USA, with massacre of millions of defenseless civilians, in "wars" that are never declared (because "undeclared wars" never have to end). Thus it is now legal for all US citizens to make pre-emptive strikes using deadly force on all fed employees, under Equal Protection doctrine in 14th Amendment to US Constitution, and in all state constitutions ("laws" that "freed the slaves").

But THAIger Woods' pecker is more important.

KWICKO

Friday, February 19, 2010 8:06 PM

You DO seem rather fixated on Tiger's dick, PN.

But please be sure to let us know how those pre-emptive strikes at the government work out for ya, OK?

STORYMARK

Friday, February 19, 2010 8:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
I Don't Buy the Official Story of Joe Stack

Piratenews.... seeing a conspiracy cover-up!

Oh My God.... I NEVER expected that.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

KWICKO

Friday, February 19, 2010 8:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
I Don't Buy the Official Story of Joe Stack

Piratenews.... seeing a conspiracy cover-up!

Oh My God.... I NEVER expected that.

I know, right? I was *shocked* to find that PN didn't buy into the story. ;)

And it seems that local whackadoodle and part-time water filter salesman Alex Jones may have left out some key details from his coverage. He apparently claims that proof of the government's prior knowledge of the "attack" is that they had fire trucks stationed nearby. Just stationed there, waiting.

At a fire station nearby. Y'know, where you'd EXPECT to see fire trucks waiting for a call.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, February 19, 2010 8:32 PM

A security camera caught the action as it was happenning, proving it was an act of desperation....

TRAVELER

Friday, February 19, 2010 9:26 PM

This guy could afford an airplane. I wish I could afford an airplane.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

STORYMARK

Friday, February 19, 2010 10:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ok, Ive posted almost 6 times now... but they are not seeming to get thru... why is that?

You seem to be equating "getting through" with "agreeing with your whacked out notions".

Funny - you'd think you would have figured out that your brand of "kill anyone who pisses me off" attitude doesn't play well with the rest of us.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, February 19, 2010 10:33 PM

Yah, I tend to compose posts in Notepad first, just in case the interwebs eats em, but also as a first step filter to doublecheck what I am sayin to make sure it comes across like I want it to.

As for the whole affording a plane, well, see...
How to put this...

Folks don't think it through, and it's funny just how little money middle-upper bracket folk actually HAVE at the end of the day, with that massive student loan debt, car payment, mortgage, all the little bear traps around your ankles you get from listening to the petty little lies held out like a carrot to keep you running on the hamster wheel and enriching the elite, you'll get there someday, when you're old and grey and too damn old to enjoy any of it, oh wait, the company nuked the pension fund and social security is bankrupt ? oh too bad, waaa haaa, SUCKER!

And yet people fall for it, they're TAUGHT to fall for it, from cradle to grave, and specifically conditioned to reject or resist any opposition to these idiotic and insane concepts which are often mutually exclusive doublethink.

Consider well that my ex makes on average at least five times what I do, and despite her being miserly in her expenses, between the mortgage, student loans, car payments, and all the bullshit that comes with having played the game to get that well payin job, it's me fronting a couple bills to HER here and there, rather than the other way around.

I dunno what the guy did for a livin, but he might have needed the friggin plane as a business expense, the same way you need a car and telephone - which gives lie to the whole public transportation thing when employers SPECIFY they you must have/own your *own* transportation, doesn't it now ?
(Often enough for a job that won't pay enough to even cover the payments, insurance, inspection, emissions, tax, title, tags, fuel, registration and all that bullshit....)
And there but for the grace of good sense and good luck goeth you, cause you sink your ass in debt for that car to bag a job that won't EVER pay back the debt you just sank your ass into, not in ten years or a hundred, sinkin deeper and deeper, yes ?

Me, I cheated, exploited a loophole and used a Tomos Bullet 50cc on a special permit - which is now, of course, illegal to use in that area, under the lame excuse that drug runners were using them (they don't, they use honda motorcycles) because they can't have folk slipping through the gaps of the trap, can they now ?

Seriously, go through it with that in mind, tally up how much your job "costs", via education, transportation, and other expenses, like the half hours worth of TIME you waste on the commute (if you're lucky) back and forth you don't get paid for, wear and tear and depreciation on your vehicle, insurance and fuel costs, job-appropriate wardrobe you don't get reimbursed for, all those little bits here and there and start adding them up, and then look at the pathetic gnawed down bone which is all that is left after the tax man gets done bending you over the sawhorse, and subtract THAT from it...

And realize you get paid little more than an indentured servant or sharecropping slave, if you "play the game" by their rules, their way, something which is, again, conditioned into people BY this system from cradle to grave, along with a resistance to any other concept or idea.

It's a rigged game, end to end, and most folk can not, will not, accept this - and should they be forced to, the pyschologically devastating effect of it is tremendous, and people snap.

So I wouldn't be so quick to demean someone who has "stuff" from playin the game, cause the "stuff" is often enough the carrot that keeps em running on the treadmill till they drop, and they don't even realize it, starving in the midst of plenty, always reaching for the golden ring they'll never be ALLOWED to reach.

It's sick, is what it is.

-F

NIKI2

Friday, February 19, 2010 11:17 PM

Yes, I almost fell out of my seat that PN didn't accept the story, too!

Thanx, JS, for my first spurt of ice tea of the day!

Ahhhh,

Quote:
all the little bear traps around your ankles you get from listening to the petty little lies held out like a carrot to keep you running on the hamster wheel and enriching the elite, you'll get there someday...

That's the 'murican way, and how they stir up everyone's desire for tax cuts for the rich and tax breaks for inheritances. 'Cuz someday, SURELY, all of us will get there, right?? Dangle that carrott...

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, February 20, 2010 12:30 AM

Anyone can afford a Piper Cherokee. A pre-owned Cherokee can be had for less than $10,000. If you incorporate it and rent it out, you can fly for free, or turn a profit.

Quote:
1965 CHEROKEE 180 C - PARTNERSHIP $3,500
http://www.findaplane.com/viewads.php?ads_id=10219&mainmenu_id=1&subme
nu_id=43

1968 PIPER CHEROKEE 140 $14,000.00 US-VA N6785J
http://www.aircraftdealer.com/aircraft_for_sale/Piper_Cherokee/119/pag
e-1.htm

I want to see security video of Joe Stack boarding the plane, and/or credible eyewitnesses saying the same. I want to hear all radio transmissions from Mr Stack, confirmed as his voice on that same day and time of the crash. I want to see video of the radar track of Mr Stack that day (on 9/11/2001 FAA ATC managers destroyed all audiotapes fo debriefings with the ATC controllers, actually cutting up the tapes before throwing them in the trash, due to "wargames" that day at the same time of "fake" hijacked airliners crashing into WTC and NRO/Pentagon). FAA and FBI refused to show ANY video of ANY alleged "suicide hijackers" boarding ANY of the allegedly hijacked airliners on 9/11/2001 (half of the "suicide hijackers" are stuill alive giving interviews to BBC and flying for Saudi Air Force and Saudi Airlines, or trained at US military bases like Muhammed Atta).

Of Course FBI banned dozens of videos from the Pentagon on 9/11 (showing a 757 flying OVER the Pentagon as the diesel generator exploded and/or a tiny cruise missile strike). Just like FBI banned all videos from OK City fed building bombing (showing the building exploding outward before the truck bomb went off, and someone else driving and setting the truck bomb besides Sgt McVeigh).

FBI confessed on 100 hours of hidden audiotape, in fed court, published by NY Times, to FBI bombing World Trade Center in 1993 for Bill Clinton Blythe Rockefeller, killing 6 people at Rabbi David Rockefeller's WTC.
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS346US346&aq=f&sourceid=ch
rome&ie=UTF-8&q=emad+salem

There was not enough time for Stack to drive the route in Austin he allegedly drive the day of the crash. Joe Stack's house allegedly "exploded", not "arson".

A $350,000 house exploded in Knoxville TN in 2009 killing an 18 year old resident, no cause was ever found, since it had no gas line in the area (nothing remained of the house).
video: http://www.knoxnews.com/videos/detail/fatal-west-knoxville-home-explos
ion/
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS346US346&sourceid=chrome&
ie=UTF-8&q=knoxville+tn+house+exploded+2009

SURVEY: 78% SUPPORT MAN BULLDOZING HIS $350,000 HOME DURING FORECLOSURE
http://www.wlwt.com/news/22600154/detail.html

PS: If your post disappears, hit BACK in your browser and the original post shows up in EDIT mode on FFF (google chrome).

AURAPTOR

Saturday, February 20, 2010 1:52 AM

Quote:

piratenews wrote:
Friday, February 19, 2010 14:30
Anyone can afford a Piper Cherokee. A pre-owned Cherokee can be had for less than $10,000

I've heard folks say how " inexpensive " planes are. Which is true. But add in the cost of a pilots license, hours of flight training, hanger fees, airplane fuel, .... pretty soon, you're talking about a fair chunk of change.

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first.

KWICKO

Saturday, February 20, 2010 2:59 AM

Quote:
A pre-owned Cherokee can be had for less than $10,000.

"CAN" be, very rarely I'd guess. Hell, I know of a '97 Aston Martin Volante that was traded in for $4000 in the Cash for Clunkers program. Doesn't mean you're commonly going to find them going for that money. A '97 Bentley Continental Turbo R fetched $4000 and a trip to the crusher, too.

Looks like the average Cherokee is going for somewhere north of $30k. And then there's the fees, and the fees, and then more fees...

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

GINOBIFFARONI

Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:15 AM

Dude, if your going to kamikaze a US government building...

rent it rent it rent it

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

GEEZER

Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I've heard folks say how " inexpensive " planes are. Which is true. But add in the cost of a pilots license, hours of flight training, hanger fees, airplane fuel, .... pretty soon, you're talking about a fair chunk of change.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
"CAN" be, very rarely I'd guess. Hell, I know of a '97 Aston Martin Volante that was traded in for $4000 in the Cash for Clunkers program. Doesn't mean you're commonly going to find them going for that money. A '97 Bentley Continental Turbo R fetched $4000 and a trip to the crusher, too.

Okay. Hell has just officially frozen over.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

KWICKO

Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Dude, if your going to kamikaze a US government building...

rent it rent it rent it

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

Epic.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

CHRISISALL

Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Epic.

Big time.

The laughing Chrisisall

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, February 20, 2010 10:22 AM

Well, I didn't sufficiently point out that he no more likely "owned" the plane than he did the car or the house - you know those toys generally don't belong to you, at least till they're not worth anything or even functional any more.

Again, it's just the carrot to keep you running on the treadmill, if you actually DID really own it, instead of all but renting it from the bank who gave you a chunk of money at usurious interest rates to buy the tremendously inflated item from the source (while the bank and the source nod and wink and shake hands at their cleverness behind your back) you might not be so pressured to keep running, yes ?

And yes, dark or not, that was funny, renting a replica A6M Zeke-Zero for the purpose would be irony overload, wouldn't it ?
(ETA: Although come to think of it, I'd prefer a Junkers JU87B Stuka with wheel sirens and a payload of bovine excretement - they certainly crap on US enough!)

Relevant to the topic are these two bits I wanted to share, firstly one from Lew Rockwell, which despite their usual more conservative bent, takes almost the same tack I did, only they push MORE in the direction of community collectivism as a response to it.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/whitehead8.1.1.html

That took me a little aback, it did - when you got the Left and the Right mostly sayin the same things while mutually giving the finger to the established order, I think the powers that be are soon to be done for.

Alternatively, I wanted to post this other bit, with the caveat that Anarchists have long since learned how counterproductive blowing shit up is, or rather, trying to...

Lemme expound that a moment first.
You take a skill (Building Bombs) that requires strict attention to detail, slavish obedience to safety rules, rigid step by step processing and an extremely linear manner of operation...

And then you put it in the hands of Anarchists...

Is not the end result of THIS quite obvious ?

It wasn't JUST how counterproductive it was, or the fact that it hurt all the wrong people and caused massive backlash, it was also that even including the few times they didn't fuck it up, by the grace of whatever gods look out for fools, they still managed to kill FAR more Anarchists than they did anyone else, and in fact, their own bombs killed more anarchists (at least in the US) than any other factor combined.

I find a twisted sort of ironic amusement in that, and delight in pointing out that simple fact to any of em who even hints at using that method ever again.

Anyhows, relevant to the topic, especially since a side discussion about economic and asymmetrical warfare seems to also be going on in several threads....

The Poor Man's Air Force
A History of the Car Bomb
http://www.antiwar.com/engelhardt/?articleid=8846

Just one decade shy of a hundred years, and how little has changed - from Budas wagon meant for J.P. Morgan (we knew THEN, this was comin, and no one listened), to a plane meant for the IRS...

Although more people actually willing to call it for what it is, a game, a scam, and a lifelong setup, gives me some hope that the wheel may turn in my lifetime after all - and damn, that'd be both interesting and satisfying.

-F

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

I've heard folks say how " inexpensive " planes are. Which is true. But add in the cost of a pilots license, hours of flight training, hanger fees, airplane fuel, .... pretty soon, you're talking about a fair chunk of change.

You can run car gas in your $5,000 plane, do your own oil changes and routine maintenance, park at a grass strip without a hanger, no insurance.

Rent it out or form a partnership and you're turning a profit.

Private pilot certificate cost $5,000 if you rent a plane, or cost of car gas if you own the plane. Recreational pilot certificate cost half as much in the same plane.

All for less than the price of a new Honda Civic.

Get an instrument rating, commercial rating and flight instructor rating, and you can really start making money. But only if your heart can handle students tryin to kill ya on a daily basis. Next thing you know you'll be flyin for Hooters Airlines.

Mile High Club never looked so good

The alleged "suicide note" has some major discrepancies. If Joe Stack was really so smart as a tax "protestor", why did he not mention the fact that the "Federal" Reserve is a private foreign corporation that keeps 100% of US income tax, and the 16th Amendment for the income tax was never ratified by the States? These are proven facts that all tax researchers know as mantra, and are used to WIN jury trials in fed court (FedEx pilot Vernie Kuglin, lawyer Tom Cryer).
http://livefreenow.tv/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&I
temid=35
http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com
http://www.paynoincometax.com

Failure to mention these facts in "his suicide note" indicates this is a govt* psyop, since the "govt" does not want the sheeple to know these facts, and knew after the kamikaze crash the "suicide note" would get national news coverage...

*govt includes mercs for the private "Federal" Reserve Bank (including its kosher ADL/SPLC PR branch), Mossad and other foreign govt agents.

Quote:
“There is no patriotic duty to pay taxes.”
-Commissioner of Internal Revenue Service v Newman 159 F2d 848,850 (1947)

"Not one dime of income taxes goes to support any federal program."
-President Ronald Reagan, right before George Bushes' CIA cousin John Hinkley Jr shot him (released from loonybin by George Bush Jr and Hussein Obama Soetoro)

"The Sixteenth Amendment does not purport to confer power to levy income taxes in a generic sense, as that authority was already possessed, or to limit and distinguish between one kind of income tax and another, but its purpose is to relieve all income taxes when imposed from apportionment from consideration of the source whence the income is derived."
-US Supreme Court, Brushaber v. Union Pacific R. Co., 240 U.S. 1 (1916)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushaber_v._Union_Pacific_Railroad

"A federal jury Friday found FedEx pilot Vernice Kuglin not guilty of evading income taxes on $920,000. The question of tax payment was unresolved at the end of the five-day trial. 'I think it is safe to assume the IRS will attempt civil collection, but she is not guilty of tax evasion,' said defense attorney Robert Bernhoft of Milwaukee. 'I feel justified,' a grinning Kuglin said after the verdict was returned at mid--afternoon. She stood outside the federal building, chatting with supporters and jurors. Federal prosecutor Joe Murphy was not available for comment. Kuglin, 58, was charged with six counts of tax evasion that could have meant up to 30 years in prison and $1.5 million in fines. Defense attorney Larry Becraft of Huntsville, Ala., said Kuglin decided mandatory payment of income taxes 'did not apply to her'. Juror Barbara Snodgras of Memphis said the jury did not convict because 'we all felt that the prosecution didn't prove its case.'"
-We The People Foundation, "IRS Loses A Big One, Memphis Pilot Acquitted Of Tax Evasion", 8-9-03
Charged With Filing "False" W-4s
http://www.givemeliberty.org/RTPLawsuit/Update08-09-03.htm

"

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PIRATENEWS

Saturday, February 20, 2010 4:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
A pre-owned Cherokee can be had for less than $10,000.

"CAN" be, very rarely I'd guess. Hell, I know of a '97 Aston Martin Volante that was traded in for $4000 in the Cash for Clunkers program. Doesn't mean you're commonly going to find them going for that money. A '97 Bentley Continental Turbo R fetched $4000 and a trip to the crusher, too.

Looks like the average Cherokee is going for somewhere north of $30k. And then there's the fees, and the fees, and then more fees...

The main expense for aircraft is the instrumentation and avionics (radios), i.e., ego.

Boring Piper Warrior

Piper Warrior with a hardon

Buying a plane with WW2-era analog instruments is not sexy for wealthy businessmen, who must constantly compare penises with other wealthy businessmen.

A "glass cockpit" in a 2-seater, 4-seater or 6-seater plane costs over $100,000 (never mind that it's nothing more than a $500 laptop computer). There's all kinds of "lesser" hi-tech upgrades for digital instruments.

But impoversished students and blue-collar folk can "easily" afford an old 1960s plane, that looks and performs essentially the same as a new $400,000 plane. You can even buy portable moving-map GPS with weather radar "glass cockpit" computerized radios for under $1,000, to use in your $5,000 airplane.

Garmin aera 500 Touch Screen GPS $799.00
Sportys Pilot Shop
http://sportys.com

Sky Ranch Airport Flying Club
monthly membership fee $35.00
http://www.skyranchairport.org

NIKI2

Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:43 PM

Anyone who can afford to MAKE PAYMENTS on a plane and even HAVE a house they can mortgage is a helluvalot richer than me!

PN's paranoia is funny sometimes, isn't he? Bet he gets most of his stuff from http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/ --oops, yup, there it is: http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=114&contentid=66
87

For only $19.99 to $24.99, we could send him one of these t-shirts:

OOOPS, hang on a minute, gotta get these up

or

or

or

or

or, hey, better yet and to the point:

These two are my favorites:

Think he's already got them?

NIKI2

Saturday, February 20, 2010 7:49 PM

Ooo, this is too much fun (it's Cafe Press; they've got hundreds of them):

Ah-HAH! I found the PERFECT one for PN:

...or we could make him our own:

Here's one just for Wulfie:

(or do you think he'll be offended by the pink t-shirt?

Sadly, what's really true (tho' telling PN will do no good, 'cuz he won't believe it):

Now, what I want to ask, from wandering among them, is what are "chemtrails" and what's with tomatoes? Betcha PN could tell me...

KWICKO

Saturday, February 20, 2010 7:54 PM

Betcha he WILL, too. You've just signed on for a 12-hour course in "Crayzee".

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

NIKI2

Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:19 PM

Not if I'm not heeeere

GINOBIFFARONI

Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:38 PM

Not the chem trail threads again......

I thought we were past that

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

OUT2THEBLACK

Saturday, February 20, 2010 9:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
...Relevant to the topic are these two bits I wanted to share, firstly one from Lew Rockwell, which despite their usual more conservative bent, takes almost the same tack I did, only they push MORE in the direction of community collectivism as a response to it.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/whitehead8.1.1.html

That took me a little aback, it did - when you got the Left and the Right mostly sayin the same things while mutually giving the finger to the established order, I think the powers that be are soon to be done for.
...Anyhows, relevant to the topic, especially since a side discussion about economic and asymmetrical warfare seems to also be going on in several threads....

Just one decade shy of a hundred years, and how little has changed - from Budas wagon meant for J.P. Morgan (we knew THEN, this was comin, and no one listened), to a plane meant for the IRS...

Although more people actually willing to call it for what it is, a game, a scam, and a lifelong setup, gives me some hope that the wheel may turn in my lifetime after all - and damn, that'd be both interesting and satisfying.

-F

Now the usual gang of threadjacking vandals shows up , en masse , to disrupt efforts at serious analysis and make half-assed attempts to be comic...

Ah , well...In the Survival Game , at least 80% have no chance at all , over the long haul...

In line with Frem's remarks , here again is analysis from a left-leaning news site ; posted here for those who'll be engaged by serious thought instead of their usual
reflexively-dismissive mode :

"...The tortured manifesto cannot be credibly labeled as left- or right-wing. Rather, it's a non-partisan screed against problems roiling the Republic -- and Stack's head -- for years. A crippled economy dominated by political and corporate potentates. A campaign and election system rotted by special interests and money. Byzantine tax laws that baffle small business owners and individuals."

http://www.alternet.org/story/145745/texas_suicide_flyer_had_real_popu
list_grievances__

LITTLEBIRD

Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Ooo, this is too much fun (it's Cafe Press; they've got hundreds of them):

Ah-HAH! I found the PERFECT one for PN:

...or we could make him our own:

Here's one just for Wulfie:

(or do you think he'll be offended by the pink t-shirt?

Sadly, what's really true (tho' telling PN will do no good, 'cuz he won't believe it):

Now, what I want to ask, from wandering among them, is what are "chemtrails" and what's with tomatoes? Betcha PN could tell me...

When I first saw these t-shirt pictures, just for fun, I started to go down the list and respond to each one. This list and the previous one. When I realized I was starting to top over 50% of believing in those conspiracies I stopped.

I was trying to think of a way to explain *why* I believe the way I do and I keep coming to back to my own experiences in life as an example. And believe me this is not an easy subject to address.

I stepped away from the machine and went into the kitchen to make some lunch and 'still thinking' about using my own experiences as an example and ... well ... dissociative episode and cut to picture of Homer setting his corn flakes on fire.

*throws broken dishes into trash*

Soooo ... I don't necessarily buy into PN's theory on the plane crash or some of his other theories, but I'm afraid I do know how underhanded and devious certain parts of this particular government really is.

They will take young children and systematically and sadistically torture them for years. When they turn 18 and are FINALLY able to think about making an escape they are then put into the back of a *locked* u-haul and taken to another state and moved from house to house until the only defense they have left is to start going catatonic. None of the personalities would cooperate. So then they are shipped off to be married to a wac-a-doodle first husband handler.

And PN, I'm begging ya not to post the article you are thinking of right now. This is hard enough.

I think people are afraid to admit their own government is actually capable of certain things. And really why should they believe it? It sounds crazy. I probably wouldn't believe it myself if I hadn't been through some it. This is just a small sample and more than I really feel comfortable sharing, but it seems as if this list is an agent of healing and learning to speak out for me so I'm going to do it from time to time.

But I'm also reading everyone's posts and thinking about what all of you have to say and adjusting some of my beliefs accordingly. I have learned a lot. I'm not as easily led into certain beliefs as I once was. I REALLY appreciate all the different discussions here. But, at the same time I do have to say, just because it sounds crazy does not mean it's not true.

Now I'm going to go tackle some yard work and fight against the extreme and overwhelming FEAR that comes up when I talk about these things. This is gonna be a hard day.

And we all know that Humpty Dumpty was actually pushed, right? :)))

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