Real World Event Discussions

'Expropriate it,' he said.

POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 19:01
VIEWED: 2485
PAGE 3 of 5

KWICKO

Tuesday, February 9, 2010 5:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
No response to the issue, huh?

Didn't think so.

Go find some more pics to post, you got nothing else.

The issue that I kicked your ass? Again? Or the issue that you run away crying like a baby every time I do it? Gosh, maybe I should take the high road and go after the "your mom" comebacks, like you would. Talk about a desperate wanker...

As for your ludicrous claims that we never took over Iraq, or Japan, or Germany? You DO know what an UNCONDITIONAL surrender is, don't you? You DO know that we then installed governments in those places, right? But yeah, in that howling vacuum of your head, I'm sure none of those count as invasions, occupations, or taking over. SUUUUUURRRRRE they don't.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

ANTIMASON

Tuesday, February 9, 2010 6:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Which makes him worse than Bush... HOW, exactly?

only in as much as hes already at a minumum doubled the Bush deficits. i never claimed he was different then Bush; hence, i didnt vote for the guy. some of us were able to see through the 'hopey-changey' euphoria

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, February 9, 2010 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

As for your ludicrous claims that we never took over Iraq, or Japan, or Germany? You DO know what an UNCONDITIONAL surrender is, don't you? You DO know that we then installed governments in those places, right? But yeah, in that howling vacuum of your head, I'm sure none of those count as invasions, occupations, or taking over. SUUUUUURRRRRE they don't.

No, we controlled all 3 countries, and then left. We didn't permanently take them over, as you so falsely attempted to claim we're doing w/ Iraq. This was about what Hugo is doing down in Venezuela, and randomly taking things under State control, and your false comparison w/ regards to Iraq. That was your original flawed position. Try to keep up. I know it's tough for you to do anything other than throw juvenile fits and try to hide the fact that you got served, but that game wore thin, long ago.

Selah

The T.Rex they call JANE!

KWICKO

Tuesday, February 9, 2010 12:47 PM

Can you show me where I used the word "permanently"? Or are you making shit up like you always do? When you imply that Chavez is doing things on a "permanent" basis, do you mean to say that you think he's immortal? NOTHING in the universe is PERMANENT.

For the record, our occupation - or taking over without legal consultation or justification or due process - of Iraq ISN'T like what we did with Japan or Germany. We've been in Iraq for longer than we occupied Japan, and for FAR longer than we were in control of Germany.

You just got served, AGAIN. I'm sure you're used to that by now.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

GEEZER

Tuesday, February 9, 2010 1:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Who did you imagine Saddam took those buildings from when he built them?

If he built them, then he didn't take them from anyone.

Quote:

I'm sure I have as much problem with that as you did with the invasion and expropriation of Iraq by the U.S.

You DO have a problem with that, don't you? Do you think it's fair, or is it okay with you?

So you expect Chavez will give the stores and homes back? Wanna bet?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

GEEZER

Tuesday, February 9, 2010 1:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
You keep saying without due process ?

what is due process here?

BBC did not say

Are the people in question appealing ?

http://countrystudies.us/venezuela/41.htm

A court system does exist, are the laws in Venezuela being broken ?

In a one-party state, the laws usually end up being what the party in power and its leaders want. Pretty much all the news coverage of Chavez's seizures of businesses, media outlets, homes, etc. would lead one to believe that he decrees it and the military moves in to do his bidding.

Human Rights Watch notes that "Venezuela currently lacks a credible, independent judiciary that can serve as a check on arbitrary state action and a guarantor of fundamental rights."

http://www.hrw.org/en/node/79218

Quote:
This also happens in Israel all the time without the right to appeal, are they socialists too ? of course there it is not to preserve historic buildings, but to run out folk they don't like... is that okay with you? Do you think that's fair?, which is worse ?

I wouldn't call the Israelis Socialists. Their government seems pretty Facist a good bit of the time. I'm certainly no defender of the government's actions, and consider them heavy-handed and generally stupid.

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

"Keep the Shiny side up"

KWICKO

Tuesday, February 9, 2010 3:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Who did you imagine Saddam took those buildings from when he built them?

If he built them, then he didn't take them from anyone.

Then why do you insist on calling him a socialist, if he didn't take anything from the people?

Quote:
Quote:

I'm sure I have as much problem with that as you did with the invasion and expropriation of Iraq by the U.S.

You DO have a problem with that, don't you? Do you think it's fair, or is it okay with you?

So you expect Chavez will give the stores and homes back? Wanna bet?

So you expect we'll give all the palaces and buildings back? ALL of them? Wanna bet?

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, February 9, 2010 3:33 PM

Quote:
Human Rights Watch notes that "Venezuela currently lacks a credible, independent judiciary that can serve as a check on arbitrary state action and a guarantor of fundamental rights."

Well shit, so do we, to put it bluntly.

And while the rise to power and resultant corruption have driven ole Hugo off the deep end of the slippery slope, this really isn't one whit different that misuse of eminent domain here in the states, is it now ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

So where were you when this was an issue, eh ?

Nope, for YOU, this isn't about the act in question, which I consider wrong no matter who does it or where, for YOU this is about *who* is committing it, cause it's all just bullshit and excuses to flame a guy the producers of your current political Kool-Aid do not like, without a single thought in your pointy little heads to the notion that your little pet Kool-Aid servers are as guilty or worse of DOING THAT SHIT HERE.

Which if it really was an issue, and not some bullshit excuse, you'd be a hell of a lot more concerned about, but no, you whinge and whine and point fingers and pretend to "care" about the same folks you'd just as happily blow to bits in the name of "freeing" them from someone a little too 'left' for the liking of the powers that be, who are more pissed off about the fact that he cut the puppet strings and kicked rapacious american corporations out of his country for not paying the fucking rent, not to mention for the resources they were taking.

But no, just like the little wind up toys you are, you point and wail when someone ELSE does it, but slobber and cheer on command when your Kool-Aid servers do it, and in your treasured ignorance, fail to see the dichotomy of this.

Face the facts, it's Hugos country, they elected his ass, and they, the PEOPLE of Venuzuela, stood up to our military, political, and espionage efforts to sabotage their nation not once, but several times, and even stomped flat one of our coup attempts in 2002 against the guy which was both blatant as hell and technically an act of war.

Like Castro, this is a guy who stood up to, and eventually succeeded, in casting down one of our more brutal puppet regimes, and won the support of the people who got mistreated and crapped on, and if the locals maybe don't care too much for the way he's running things, they STILL prefer that to our so-called "help", and you can't blame them.

Do I think he's an ass, and corrupted by the power he holds, sure I do, just like Castro, Khomeni, and a lotta folks who threw down our puppets, but face the facts, despite their lack of respect for the law and human rights, the notion that these goons are a fucking IMPROVEMENT on the puppet-governments they threw down is a goddamned shameful thing.

The people of venezeula want him out, let THEM throw his ass out, cause the last thing they want is our "help", given what the inevitable price is.

And it kinda pisses me off that imma hear this same bullshit from you same people when Kharazi inevitably gets dumped the same way The Shah, Pinochet, Perez, Papa Doc, and all the rest of our little puppet kings have, especially since the people of afghanistan will without a doubt replace his ass with the most hostile (to us) sumbitch they can possibly find...

So you can be pretty sure I've little respect for the opinion of fools who whinge and whine and point fingers with one hand while polishing tyrannys jackboot with the other.

If this REALLY mattered to you, you'd have been throwing this hissy when it mattered to americans, instead of using it for a bullshit excuse to cry "foul" in the name of people you'd "rather see dead, than red".

Cause that's what it's REALLY about, and we all know it, so quit pretending.

-F

KWICKO

Tuesday, February 9, 2010 5:14 PM

Quote:
Posted by Fremdfirma:

Nope, for YOU, this isn't about the act in question, which I consider wrong no matter who does it or where, for YOU this is about *who* is committing it, cause it's all just bullshit and excuses to flame a guy the producers of your current political Kool-Aid do not like, without a single thought in your pointy little heads to the notion that your little pet Kool-Aid servers are as guilty or worse of DOING THAT SHIT HERE.

Egg-fucking-ZACKLY!

It's not that Grampa has a problem with WHAT Hugo's doing - he only has a problem with the fact that HUGO is doing it.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

GEEZER

Tuesday, February 9, 2010 7:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Well shit, so do we, to put it bluntly.

And while the rise to power and resultant corruption have driven ole Hugo off the deep end of the slippery slope, this really isn't one whit different that misuse of eminent domain here in the states, is it now ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

So where were you when this was an issue, eh ?

I was commenting on how stupid the Court's decision was.

Also note the long-term results of Kelo (from the same cite)

"Prior to Kelo only eight states specifically prohibited the use of eminent domain for economic development except to eliminate blight: Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Maine, Montana, South Carolina and Washington. By July 2007, 42 states had enacted some type of reform legislation in response to the Kelo decision. Of those 42 states, 21 enacted laws that severely inhibited the takings allowed by the Kelo decision, while the rest enacted laws that place some limits on the power of municipalities to invoke eminent domain for economic development. The remaining eight states have not passed laws to limit the power of eminent domain for economic development."

So at least here it does get worked through the court system, many such cases do get decided in favor of the owners and not the state, and backlash against a bad ruling can generate good legislation. Somewhat different from 'Chavez wants, Chavez takes, government rubberstamps'.

Quote:
Nope, for YOU, this isn't about the act in question, which I consider wrong no matter who does it or where, for YOU this is about *who* is committing it, cause it's all just bullshit and excuses to flame a guy the producers of your current political Kool-Aid do not like, without a single thought in your pointy little heads to the notion that your little pet Kool-Aid servers are as guilty or worse of DOING THAT SHIT HERE.

Sorry, Fremd, but by any reading from any resonably impartial source, Chavez is (as you note yourself) an asshole and is working his way up to typical tin-pot dictator. He's moving in the same direction as Mugabe in Zimbabwe, but at a faster pace. He may have been a revolutionary hero at one time, but he's got the taste of power now, and will use the mantle of Socialism, while betraying its philosophy, to ensure he stays on top. None of this is changed by the government of the U.S. or the governments of other countries also making (or having made) less-than-wise decisions.

You're also making an invalid assumption if you believe I'm suggesting that the U.S., or anyone else outside Venezuela, should do anything about removing him. I'm just pointing out his continuing foibles and wondering how much longer the lefties will continue to hold him up as a shining exemplar of Socialism.

"Keep the Shiny side up"