perceptions

POSTED BY: boris
UPDATED: Thursday, February 4, 2010 23:29
VIEWED: 5520
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STORYMARK

Wednesday, February 3, 2010 9:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by startroop:

I was very steamed that the coach was allowing "his" player the priviledge of physically intimidating those smaller than him but got all bent out of shape and was going to have me expelled for "fighting" when "his" player got smacked down hard on the tile floor and got a bloody nose.

Not to imply that intimidation should be permitted.... but actual physical violence can't just be overlooked either.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

ZEEK

Wednesday, February 3, 2010 10:07 PM

There seems to be a lot of hate coming out of this thread. Can't we all just get along?

STARTROOP

Wednesday, February 3, 2010 10:31 PM

Well, I suppose I could have been more specific. He had his arm around my head, cranking my neck at a very painful angle in an attempt to give me what is commonly called a "Nuggy". I protested loudly for which I was rewarded with an "Atomic Wedgie". It was during this attempt to make the waist band of my underwear touch my shoulder blades that I got my feet planted and was able to take him to the ground. It was an assault, pure and simple and the coach looked on it with the "boys will be boys" attitude until his player got hurt, never mind the fact that certain tender parts of my anatomy ached for days after that.

You are right though, there is a lot of strong emotion about an event from 35 years ago. I hadn't thought about this in years as my life has gone in other, mostly good directions. We should try to get along.

I'll go this far. I forgive the football player as he had been raised as a priviledged individual (as sports stars often are) and didn't believe that normal behavioral standards applied to him. I don't think it occurred to him that it was more than just goofing around until he hit the tile.

The coach, on the other hand was an adult charged with the supervision of students in a public place. I have a ways to go to forgive him yet.

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, February 3, 2010 10:59 PM

Zeek: Some things aren't forgivable. I've seen bullies damn near kill their victims. I have never regretted stepping in, standing up to bullies, and making sure it doesn't happen again by right hook or by crook.

There are atomic wedgie bullies, and there are strangle-weaker-students-behind-the-school-after-hours and gang rape bullies. Both are merely a reflection of the same systemically perpetuated sadistic social flaw. One of them just hasn't been able to get away with as much. Both are entirely, completely unacceptable, and I think their victims are entitled to self defense without fear of reprisal. And if they aren't, that's where *I* come in.

STORYMARK

Thursday, February 4, 2010 12:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by startroop:
Well, I suppose I could have been more specific. He had his arm around my head, cranking my neck at a very painful angle in an attempt to give me what is commonly called a "Nuggy". I protested loudly for which I was rewarded with an "Atomic Wedgie". It was during this attempt to make the waist band of my underwear touch my shoulder blades that I got my feet planted and was able to take him to the ground. It was an assault, pure and simple and the coach looked on it with the "boys will be boys" attitude until his player got hurt, never mind the fact that certain tender parts of my anatomy ached for days after that.

Yeah, the context adds a lot. And to clarify - I'm a high school teacher, so I deal with this kinda thing. I personally would have shut down that player looooong before it got to that point - but hey, I hate bullies AND sports, so he'd get no sympathy from me.

Technically, a situation like that, I would be expected to turn both kids in for discipline, but honestly, I would probably turn a blind eye to your retaliation in this case.

And that coach was a dick.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

MINCINGBEAST

Thursday, February 4, 2010 12:29 AM

geek and bully are not discrete categories: they overlap. i'll give you that geeks may use different tools than football players when it comes to belittling people--but thats all i'll give you, besides a wedgie and some purple-nurples.

you all know, deep down inside, that bullying is a delightful, and inescapable facet of human nature. people love and need heirarchy, and bullying is a wonderful way to establish it. and also, mother nature is intoxicated with cruelty.

BORIS

Thursday, February 4, 2010 9:39 AM

Bullies really can't cope when the geek they think they are going to intimidate takes em out both physically and intellectually. Bullies at my all girl catholic high school learned fast that I fought dirty. even if they did manage to beat me up I always did permanent physical or mental damage...so they pretty much gave me a wide berth. e.g. just before lunch one day a bully was bleating on about all the pain she was going to cause me after school, I basically smiled at her and said something like "what's stopping you from doing it now you devolved troglodyte" and smacked her in the face with my locker door. her bleeding nose and my week of lunch time detentions were worth it.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 4, 2010 3:53 PM

Hey ubermensch. Your nihilism is showing.

Unfortunately, it's a common misinterpretation of the idea that Nietzsche is promoting complete amorality. Actually, his idea of the ubermensch is not that they're amoral, but that they have developed and live by their own MORAL code. Everyone else just assumes that means a selfish code. The Ubermensch however is supposed to gather people to him through the strength of his own personal convictions on right and wrong, and not bow to the majority (religion, law, authority).

Calling nature "cruel" implies that she cares one way or the other about any of us. We're not that important.

Now PEOPLE, are people cruel? Do we delight in cruelty? Is this something to be embraced? You'll find differing opinions, but generally I stand for a big no. A person can be independent and get what they want and need without duplicity (the geek) or cruelty (the jock). Those who choose darker paths to get what they want and need have been taught or learned to do so because they were deprived. And as for hierarchy, what teenager does NOT rebel? The entire purpose of our system is to train independence and defiance out of people, until everyone is Nietzsche's Last Man. No one thinks critically, belief is a half-hearted nod at the same old control systems with a happy life after death message no person is able to obtain. No passion, no will to stand for anything. Life is meaningless so we might as well kill each other in meaningless wars. That is true amorality and THAT is how Nietzsche has been RE-interpreted because that is in the best interests of those who would control you.

Rather than playing games with your rivals, you would do better to turn as one on the people who are pulling your strings.

ZEEK

Thursday, February 4, 2010 4:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Zeek: Some things aren't forgivable. I've seen bullies damn near kill their victims. I have never regretted stepping in, standing up to bullies, and making sure it doesn't happen again by right hook or by crook.

There are atomic wedgie bullies, and there are strangle-weaker-students-behind-the-school-after-hours and gang rape bullies. Both are merely a reflection of the same systemically perpetuated sadistic social flaw. One of them just hasn't been able to get away with as much. Both are entirely, completely unacceptable, and I think their victims are entitled to self defense without fear of reprisal. And if they aren't, that's where *I* come in.

Oh I have no problem with standing up for yourself. The problem is when someone takes pleasure in causing someone else pain. I don't care who started it at that point. Anyone having fun hurting someone else has some issues they need to work though.

Quote:
Originally posted by boris:
Bullies really can't cope when the geek they think they are going to intimidate takes em out both physically and intellectually. Bullies at my all girl catholic high school learned fast that I fought dirty. even if they did manage to beat me up I always did permanent physical or mental damage...so they pretty much gave me a wide berth. e.g. just before lunch one day a bully was bleating on about all the pain she was going to cause me after school, I basically smiled at her and said something like "what's stopping you from doing it now you devolved troglodyte" and smacked her in the face with my locker door. her bleeding nose and my week of lunch time detentions were worth it.

This is what I'm talking about. I call this crossing the line. Even if you want to say this girl "had it coming" you shouldn't be taking pleasure in giving someone a bloody nose.

STORYMARK

Thursday, February 4, 2010 5:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
geek and bully are not discrete categories: they overlap. i'll give you that geeks may use different tools than football players when it comes to belittling people--but thats all i'll give you, besides a wedgie and some purple-nurples.

Could you back that up with something - anything?

I'd love to hear how the geeks picked on you....

Quote:
you all know, deep down inside, that bullying is a delightful, and inescapable facet of human nature. people love and need heirarchy, and bullying is a wonderful way to establish it. and also, mother nature is intoxicated with cruelty.

And you should know, that as humans, we have the ability to rise above our base instincts, though many choose not to.

I'd like to know where you are coming from here - because from what you wrote, you kinda sounds like a (presumably) ex-bully who felt justified picking on geeky kids because they made him feel dumb or something.

Not saying that's true necessarily - but it's how your post reads to me.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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