Supreme Court ruling on money and free speech

Some cultures have escaped that.

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Going back ...

".... pretty much any form of business (is) ... just bunches of people."

Not true.

Corporations have a single defined goal and run by a set of rules that make their decisions and actions different from those of any individual, or group of individuals. When the board meets, they don't check around the table to see if they are being personally nice to the prisoners in China. They look at the bottom line as is their mandate, the rules they operate under, and the rules they can skirt, or at least maintain plausible deniability on.

As a result, corporations are NOT just a bunch of individuals acting out of personal motivations.

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And FWIW, I am not a fan of 'human nature' arguments coming from either direction. The problems of those arguments are these:
1) Human behavior and culture are too varied to conclude that there is any kind of cast-in-concrete 'human nature' that can't somehow be altered with the proper inputs. I'm going to give some animal examples to show that animals can exhibit these changes:
a) It is 'dolphin nature' for a group of males to chase a female for days until she tires, and then effectively gang rape her. Except for a large group of dolphins off of Australia who, for some reason, prefer to befriend and gently court their females, and who don't seem to realize that they are giving up being dolphins (seeing as they don't have that 'dolphin nature').
b) It is chimp nature to exhibit extreme alpha male behavior. Until you distribute that pile of food around as it would be in nature, and then they become cooperative and friendly.
c) It is baboon nature for males to be violently aggressive towards all. Unless you kill off the most violent and aggressive males, and then the society becomes far more peaceable for females and the young.

2) Limiting 'human nature' to just one trait means you have to ignore all that doesn't fit.

3) Thinking that human nature is one thing in particular keeps you from considering the small and obvious and large and unobvious circumstances that can significantly alter human behavior for better or worse.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by rue:
"... greed and acquisitiveness ... have been with us forever. So have kindness, sympathy and self-sacrifice."

But our economic structures (ie capitalism) only reward greed and acquisitiveness. Which is why we need different economic structures.

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Well, so do Feudalism, and Merchantilsm, and Socialism, and Communism, Tribalism, and all the other isms, IF there are people working under those structures who are greedy and acquisitive. If you forced communal or cooperative enterprise on everyone at gunpoint, instead of letting folk self-select, there would be greedy, acquisitive people running greedy, acquisitive communes and co-ops - buying legislators and trying to crush other businesses.

I believe that although you can change the economic system, or the governmental system, or even both, unless you also change the philosophical and ethical mindset of the people, you're still gonna have greedy, acquisitive folks doing their thing.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Quote:

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Originally posted by rue:
When the board meets, they don't check around the table to see if they are being personally nice to the prisoners in China. They look at the bottom line as is their mandate, the rules they operate under, and the rules they can skirt, or at least maintain plausible deniability on.

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Geeze, Rue. Stereotype much?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Geezer

A corporation, BY LAW, MUST look after the fiduciary interests of its investors, and ONLY look after those interests. It is not a stereotype, as you so ignorantly think. It is LAW.

Got anything else you want to flaunt your ignorance on ?



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Quote:

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Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:

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Originally posted by rue:
"... greed and acquisitiveness ... have been with us forever. So have kindness, sympathy and self-sacrifice."

But our economic structures (ie capitalism) only reward greed and acquisitiveness. Which is why we need different economic structures.

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Well, so do Feudalism, and Merchantilsm, and Socialism, and Communism, Tribalism, and all the other isms

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Jeez, Geeze - stereotype much?

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"If you forced communal or cooperative enterprise on everyone at gunpoint ..."

Now here you are making ASSumptions, as usual.

"... there would be greedy, acquisitive people running greedy, acquisitive communes and co-ops ..."

Does not logically follow. ASSuming people would be 'forced' into co-ops, why would the greedy one end up running them ?

Furthermore, in co-ops, at least the ones I've belonged to - EVERYONE VOTES. On everything. You don't get a small group of greedy people running the show. And when larger groups of people hold the reins of power, the few authoritarian types can't get traction.

"... unless you also change the philosophical and ethical mindset of the people ..."

And, BTW, you're assuming that it is 'human nature' to be exactly what we are here, today. You seem to have missed a very important point - when you change the structure people relate to, they themselves become different.

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