Japanese Whalers.....
POSTED BY: Calhoun
UPDATED: Friday, June 12, 2026 18:00
VIEWED: 19782
PAGE 9 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by perfessergee:
My point here has to do with the "mindset" of the Japanese whalers (I was going to say "philosophy", but that word suggests some degree of thought within the context of marine ecology and I doubt that there is any such thing).
And that "mindset" values the killing of the rarest of the rare - species that we don't know anything about! I've already pointed out that the Japanese kill and sell all kinds of whale, legal or not.
Thank you, Perfesser, for putting that so succinctly. While I may disagree with the ACTIONS of the protesters, I fully agree with their goal. We share the same destination; we differ on which route to take to get there.
And yes, there IS a certain "cachet" to eating the rarest of the rare. If you can find an endangered species, you'll also find someone who wants to roast it on a stick, just so they can brag about eating something so rare. It's a sickness of the soul, I think.
Quote:
(Note that "Hero" never responded to my post that the Japanese have vastly exceeded their legal rights according to treaties they agreed to and signed. Any comments "Hero"?)
It's beyond time for the international community to put pressure on EVERY governing body to ramp up the pressure on Japan in this area.
Quote:
And then there's the issue of the tradition of the sea, of rescuing those in need (even during warfare, once a battle was concluded, the victor assisted in salvaging the vanquished). Instead of helping those involved in a collision in the coldest and most hazardous of oceans, the whaler hosed them down with pressure pumps. The most reprehensible conduct imaginable. Absolutely disgusting. They should be prosecuted under international law.
That's also where I have my biggest problems with the Sea Shepherds group, in the other videos where they are clearly ramming whaling ships with an equally large vessel. This isnt in your bathtub, or in the nearby lake - THIS IS HUNDREDS, IF NOT *THOUSANDS* - OF MILES FROM SHORE!!! You fuck up and unintentionally sink somebody out here, and people are most likely going to die. This kind of assing around, by EITHER SIDE (or by ANYBODY, when you get right down to it), is unconscionable and unacceptable. I'm glad the Barker was there to pick up the stranded crew of the Ady Gil, but you'll note in several of the pictures that the Shonen Maru is at a full stop close by, just in case. Sailors - even ones who are bitter enemies - generally DO have a sense of honor and obey "the rules", whether written or unwritten.
In this instance, it appears both sides my have violated those rules, but when it all went wrong, clearer heads did seem to prevail.
On the bright side, this incident, while it cost the group their "flagship" DID bring them a metric shit-tonne of publicity and exposure, so I've little doubt that they'll pick up something new with which to attack other ships.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You seem to be falling into the notion that if there's no punishment, there's no crime. I don't buy it. A drug dealer who doesn't get caught is still breaking the law.
I'm not falling into anything...except the presumption of innocence.
For liberals that presumption is subjective. If you like the Defendant, they get all the protections and presumptions in the world. If you don't like them then they are guilty regardless of actual innocence.
We are not talking about drug dealors being guilty. Besides the fact that the whalers are engaging in a legal activity, which drug dealing is not...we're talking about Joe, the guy accused of being a drug dealor or in this case Hiro, the guy accused of whaling illegally.
Joe gets the presumption of innocence, I can't just go out and ram my car into his. Hiro is guilty, because you hate whalers. Perhaps a lynching is in order.
And lets not ignore the cultural and racial implications of some white (mostly European) liberal intellectual types dictating to the little misguided orientals just what business they are allowed or not allowed to engage in.
And finally, Japan is no slouch or 2nd rate country to be screwing around with. In about fifty years they went from Feudal swords to sinking the Russian Navy in a war of industrial powers. Fifty years from now do you want Japan telling Sweden what their laws should be and using this as a precedent to enforce them on the high seas.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
For liberals that presumption is subjective. If you like the Defendant, they get all the protections and presumptions in the world. If you don't like them then they are guilty regardless of actual innocence.
Oh how quickly you forget...
You were among the blithering hordes who wanted to lynch Obama for "palling around with domestic terrorists" like Bill Ayers, who was never convicted, and therefore MUST be considered innocent. Unless you're one of those "liberals" you accuse of having subjective presumptions about guilt. ;)
In fifty years, Japan built a navy. And in five years, they went from the largest aircraft carrier force in the world, and the second-largest navy on Earth, to not having a navy at all. So what was your point?
By the way, you misspelled "dealor". Haven't you learned yet that spelling matters? Seems if only they'd spelled Cap'n Underpants's name right, they'd have had him before he stepped on a U.S.-bound flight. So yes, spelling DOES count. :)
Quote:
Joe gets the presumption of innocence, I can't just go out and ram my car into his. Hiro is guilty, because you hate whalers. Perhaps a lynching is in order.
Can you show me where I presumed or pronounced "Hiro" guilty?
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:"Fuck you, asshole."
Originally posted by Hero:
I'm not falling into anything...except the presumption of innocence.
Really, I'm done with you man. There was a time when you seemed to be making sense, now it's same-ol-by-the-book dogma with you. Like a good little man of law, objective reality does not exist. Unless a judge, the most incorruptible & infallible of all God's creations, says it does.
So sorry you broke up with that girl; she was a good influence on you.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:I don't disagree on any particular point.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
This isnt in your bathtub, or in the nearby lake - THIS IS HUNDREDS, IF NOT *THOUSANDS* - OF MILES FROM SHORE!!! You fuck up and unintentionally sink somebody out here, and people are most likely going to die. This kind of assing around, by EITHER SIDE (or by ANYBODY, when you get right down to it), is unconscionable and unacceptable.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Geez, I go away overnight and look what happens! 
Guess I just have two things to add:Quote:
It's true, they are technically acting "legally" in that there is no international law against whaling...which is what we need. I don't know we get one tho'...does anyone know how you get an INTERNATIONAL law for what happens on the high seas? I'd like to know.
Japanese Whalers are acting legally unless and until they are convicted in Court.
Because electing officials ain't gonna do it...it has to be numerous countries agreeing on anything to impact the legality of their action. They've been condemned for their actions for decades; they don't care. There is no court under which to sue them, and they’d lose a lawsuit because there is no “law” they’ve broken.
They are acting "illegally" in that they did sign a "treaty" and are continuing to take whales under the guise of "research". That can't be enforced, even tho' the vast majority of countries in the world are strongly against whaling. (as evidenced by the actions and writings of the IRWC). Nobody's going to hold Japan accountable, so who else is there to fight for the whales who are being taken "legally" illegally?
There is no defense for either side except the use of violence, which should not be acceptable to anyoneQuote:
No support from YOU, and many like you, but vast support from everyone all over the world who recognizes that what the whalers are doing is a sham and wrong in these days when we’re destroying species daily, and where whale and dolphin intelligence has been recognized and is thought highly of. Look at the furor this incident raised internationally to see for yourself.
Not a lot for the public to support (unless the Jap whaler were to ram an innocent protest vessel).Quote:
What bullshit!! It’s downright laughable. What about all the laws the past administration inflicted on our legal system? What about the people who have made a hero out of the abortion-doctor killer? There are a million examples of right-wingers IGNORING the illegalities of those they “like”. To say it’s just the liberals is just plain absurd.
For liberals that presumption is subjective. If you like the Defendant, they get all the protections and presumptions in the world. If you don't like them then they are guilty regardless of actual innocence.Quote:
Again laughable. Aside from what was dictated after America WON A WAR against Japan, who started that war against us, the Japanese have done precisely whatever they want, irregardless of how it might harm another country! Add to that the fact that all the countries in the IWRC voted FOR the ban on whaling except four, three of which are white Europeans. Here’s the membership list of the IWC. Show me all the “poor little” countries that "America" is telling what to do with regard to whaling: http://www.iwcoffice.org/commission/iwcmain.htm#nations
And lets not ignore the cultural and racial implications of some white (mostly European) liberal intellectual types dictating to the little misguided orientals just what business they are allowed or not allowed to engage in.
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"See, when I watched the video, it looked to me like the smaller vessel DID cut across the path of the larger one, and the larger one DID veer to starboard. Maybe we're seeing the video differently, but from what I saw and you said, it seems the whalers are the ones in the right. (And it pains my hands to even type those words together!)
It's all screwy..."
The laws of the sea are different from traffic laws b/c your FIRST AND ONLY duty is to avoid collision at all costs - even if you don't follow the rules of the road (so to speak). And speaking of which, since there are no lane markers or road signs or stoplights, what there is is agreement on who gives way and how do you pass each other.
As to who was to give way to avoid collision, in the two videos I saw, it was pretty much a draw AS THINGS WERE AT THE START. The larger vessel, being larger, is presumed to be less maneuverable. However, the smaller vessel may not have been underway at the time. At the least, moving more slowly gives it a right to stay its course.
Generally, each vessel moves to starboard. BUT - to ENSURE that they avoid collision in this case - the vessels each needed to move to port. They signal their intentions with two short blasts to avoid misunderstandings.
In this case, the larger vessel veered so as to collide with the smaller one, violating the first duty. That should lose the captain his captaincy, at minimum.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Hero
Quote:
All the attacking ships have a skull and crossbones. This is piracy and terrorism and its only a matter of time till they get someone killed.
That's being redundant, Piracy I'll give you, that's where my issue is with it, once you've raised the Jolly Roger you do *NOT GET* presumption of innocence anymore, not whatever.
All else aside, that's kinda my issue with the folks in the pretty little boat there.
When you raise the pirate banner and get in someone elses personal space on the high seas, whatever happens to you AFTER that, isn't something you can bitch about to me - morals be damned, YOUR intentions were made clear by that single act alone.
That's not to say I don't sympathize with their cause and all, just that once you've put the banner in the air, anyone not flyin it has cause to consider you a potentially armed hostile and act accordingly, up to and including sinking your ass on the spot - and while not well versed in maritime law, I do believe they have legal justification to forgo "duty to render assistance" if they belive it will present a danger to their vessel, AND I believe they have full justification to actually outright seize any vessel flying the banner, although they must return it to it's country of origin thereafter.
That said, with all the bruha raised about it, one could say they accomplished their objective more successfully than they had hoped to.
I just wish they fully understood that the mere act of even raising that banner is entirely sufficient justification for any craft under any flag to blow you out of the water right on the spot, and leave any survivors to fend for themselves - it's not just an idle prank, it means something.
-F
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Frem, Rue, and Niki,
YES to pretty much everything each of you posted in your most recent posts.
There absofreakinglutely need to be stronger laws and treaties. The UN is a place to start, but given our recent actions, it's not like we hold any moral high ground when it comes to trying to get people to follow what the UN says...
Most modern seafaring craft have some sort of GPS systems on board, so it really shouldn't be too hard to figure out who did what, and when, in leading up to this incident. 'Course, one boat is now a couples miles down under the ocean, so it's data isn't going to be easy to retrieve, but authorities can likely get a look at any "black box" the whaler has onboard.
And as Frem has pointed out, for all the cock-ups on both sides, this certainly HAS given the anti-whaling crowd a huge boost in publicity.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Frem, Rue, and Niki,
YES to pretty much everything each of you posted in your most recent posts.
There absofreakinglutely need to be stronger laws and treaties. The UN is a place to start, but given our recent actions, it's not like we hold any moral high ground when it comes to trying to get people to follow what the UN says...
Most modern seafaring craft have some sort of GPS systems on board, so it really shouldn't be too hard to figure out who did what, and when, in leading up to this incident. 'Course, one boat is now a couples miles down under the ocean, so it's data isn't going to be easy to retrieve, but authorities can likely get a look at any "black box" the whaler has onboard.
And as Frem has pointed out, for all the cock-ups on both sides, this certainly HAS given the anti-whaling crowd a huge boost in publicity.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
So what happens if this goes before the UN and once again they take No Position...
does that make the Southern Oceans something like the American West before statehood... a place where laws really don't apply?
Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"
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