Japanese Whalers.....
POSTED BY: Calhoun
UPDATED: Friday, June 12, 2026 18:00
VIEWED: 19782
PAGE 4 of 24
Quote:Agreed. I just wince at killing.
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Seriously though, I do think we need to return balance to a system WE screwed up in the first place
Maybe release some salt-peter into the water to reduce the seal-on-seal friction action?
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:Niki, given a choice, would you rather possibly starve to death, or certainly be clubbed to death? I guess that's it comes down to with the seals. The thing with the sharks is plain mean. Makes me think the culinary peeps in Japan are a bunch O' freaks.
Originally posted by Niki2:
I also disagree that killing a shark is different from killing a sea lion, for the opposite reasons I THINK Chris is arguing.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Oh, dear, I can't stop. This is such a hot issue among environmentalists; here's some more. I want you to understand just how absurd this is, and respond to a couple of the things people have said. As to them doing it for "scientific research":Quote:
http://weblog.greenpeace.org/whales/2007/11/catching_whales_for_scienc
In 1987, the ban on commercial whaling came into force for Japan. Yet despite the ban the whaling fleet which had previously conducted the commercial hunt sailed at its usual time to the same whaling grounds in the Antarctic to take the same species of whale they had caught the year before and return them to Japan boxed in 15 kg cardboard cartons, ready for sale. This was made possible by ‘scientific’ whaling.
e_is.html a whale is killed, scientists collect data from the animal's remains on its age, birthing rate and diet; the meat is then packaged and sold.
....
Japan has cited its long history as a whaling nation and its historic reliance on whale meat for protein as reasons why it should be continued to allow to hunt despite the IWC ban. But Japanese consumption has become so negligible that local governments are encouraging schools to incorporate whale in their lunch programs, while thousands of tons of whale meat remain stockpiled in freezers.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1686486,00.html
Justify that, if you can.Quote:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=31&art_id=nw200811171
It also says whales are to blame for a decline in world fish stocks, though environmental groups dispute this.
01302910C946472] That's just pure bullshit, whales eat krill for the most part, not fish.
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Obviously that's a false question, Chris. The sharks don't just "starve", they suffer hugely; my argument was to say killing seal lions wasn't better than killing sharks. If you mean would I, as a seal, rather starve to death than be clubbed to death, watch some footage of seals being killed, then tell me which is better. I have, and I'll never forget it.
Gino's got it right; to solve ALL the problems we need to get some smarts and think long-term instead of everyone thinking about their profit next week or next year. Meanwhile, I think a limit on what mankind is allowed to take from the seas is a better answer than killing the predator species!
Not that I have any hope of that happening until it's too late, but I refuse to agree that we should sacrifice yet another species in the wild because we like the flavor of its prey. If we've got to do something only halfway sensible, we should create "fish farms" for those species want, rather than killing off the OTHER predators...they don't have that option.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Obviously that's a false question, Chris. The sharks don't just "starve", they suffer hugely; my argument was to say killing seal lions wasn't better than killing sharks.
No, I agree with you about the shark torture, it's unnecessary & cruel. It was just the sea lions I was talking about.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Posted by Niki2:
The ramming of the Ady Gil (Earth Race) was quite different from the tactics of Sea Shepherd. Sea Shepherd while controversial and aggressive has not attempted to sink occupied vessels. A few feet difference in the ramming and six people would be dead. The Japanese attacked without regards to human life, it is a miracle that no one died. The attempted murder of six people is a far far bigger crime than anything Sea Shepherd has ever been accused of.
Sorry, Niks, but I stopped reading at that point, because that post is utter bullshit. It's not YOUR post, but the comments from others that you posted, that I take issue with. Watch the second video (the one at the END of the second article Gino posted from CSM), where the Sea Shepherds' OTHER ship - itself a whaling vessel - deliberately rams another ship. This kind of bullshit behavior on the high seas leaves me not feeling a bit sorry for this douchebag, and has me actually GLAD that he lost his precious little toy. After all, if he's bragging about ramming ships on the high seas, putting lives in danger just to get ratings for his shitty TV show, then why would I feel bad about him suffering the same fate?
By the way, are they lying when they list him as taking credit for the sinking of another whaling ship with a limpet mine attached to its hull? Should that be seen as an endorsement of the French sinking of the Rainbow Warrior using similar methods?
Am I against whaling? You bet. But am I willing to go to any lengths and employ any means, legal or extralegal, to try to get my way? Nope. And I'm not a big fan of trying to ram and attack those with whom you disagree, and then whining and bitching about it when they behave in a similar fashion towards you.
Maybe I'm being too harsh, but it seems to me that when ANY group starts using the old "by any means necessary" tactic, it's a short walk to the torture room at Gitmo or to strapping on a dynamite vest on your way to the airport.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Niki, given a choice, would you rather possibly starve to death, or certainly be clubbed to death? I guess that's it comes down to with the seals. The thing with the sharks is plain mean. Makes me think the culinary peeps in Japan are a bunch O' freaks.
Originally posted by Niki2:
I also disagree that killing a shark is different from killing a sea lion, for the opposite reasons I THINK Chris is arguing.
The laughing Chrisisall
Killing ONE of either of them I could maybe deal with, especially if it were a life-and-death scenario. I run into issues when you start HARVESTING them, hunting them to extinction "just because".
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Gino's got it right; to solve ALL the problems we need to get some smarts and think long-term instead of everyone thinking about their profit next week or next year. Meanwhile, I think a limit on what mankind is allowed to take from the seas is a better answer than killing the predator species!
Bingo. Now that I can agree with! :)
And if killing the predator species IS the answer, then I guess we better start up the eugenics programs, because WE are the ultimate predator, after all.
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Okay, Mike, I'll agree with you there. I don't like the use of violence to make a point either. I know I'm prejudiced because I've been in this fight for so long and have become frustrated by the inability to stop the Japanese from their game, so I'll grant you my view is skewed.
Nonetheless, while I agree it's wrong, at the same time I can understandhow frustration would make people take violent measures. This battle has been going on for fifty or sixty years now, and still whale species are being killed to the point of endangerment. Again; yes, it's wrong to take violent measures, you're right.
As far as us being the ultimate predator; there are ways to co-exist with other predators if we gave a damn. It's tough, it's controversial, like re-introducing wolves to Yellowstone, but it could be done if people just friggin' woke UP!
Here, we're getting an increase in population of mountain lions, and will eventually no doubt be faced with dealing with it. We've just recently had coyotes come into the area. But for now at least, we need both species to cut down on the prey population, which is burgeoning. I think here the problem will be less, as NO hunting is allowed at all, so if the ecosystem is left alone, the population of prey determines the population of predators, since they can't increase their range. If we were in competition, it would be another matter.
They've developed to the East steadily, which has put them in conflict with the native mountain lions, and there have been problems. I THINK a predator species coming into an area which is pretty well balanced except for an overabundance of prey species will balance itself, but I don't know for sure, time will have to tell us.
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Niki2 wrote:
Gino, I’m afraid that culling the seals won’t save the fish. The fewer seals around, the more the stocks of fish will be taken. Mankind isn’t too good at limiting himself, if you’ve noticed. The more fish there are, the more they’ll take, to the point where a number of fish species off our coast are in danger of disappearing.
Alone yes, but in combination with other efforts...
interesting article
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/fishing/cod.html
On April 24, 2003, almost 11 years after the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans imposed a moratorium on cod fishing off Newfoundland, the federal fisheries minister, Robert Thibault, announced the outright closure of what remained of the cod fishery in Newfoundland, the Maritime provinces and Quebec.
continues
It has gone so far Canada has fired on Spanish Trawlers
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/03/12/world/canada-and-spain-face-off-over
-fishing-zone.html?pagewanted=1
as well as acting to stop US overfishing in Canadian waters
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/07/22/world/canadians-end-blockade-in-salm
on-fishing-dispute.html?pagewanted=1
At least trying, is better than to do nothing
Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists 
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"
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