Surreal World Event Discussion

POSTED BY: HKCavalier
UPDATED: Thursday, July 1, 2004 01:03
VIEWED: 6443
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RICKKER

Sunday, June 27, 2004 3:28 AM

Ok I've been watching the political threads for some time now. I've just recently put in my 2cents in other threads that were just firefly related. The computer I'me on now has crappy vid so I didn't get a clear picture of the vid. What I can't understand is how can anyone not making 3 million a year or more able to back bush. He has done nothing for this country but divide the people and make the rich richer. Teh Hitler thing brings to mind somethiing thats been on my mind a long time. There are seven deadly sins. This is probably piss a lot of people off but what I have seen is where Hitler was to hate, Bush Jr. is to greed. America is fast becoming a 3rd world country because he and his kind take as much as they can. A friend of mine during a discussion we had said he believed in free trade. Let the jobs go to the best people qualified and whoever is left out learns to be better at something else. Looks good on paper but who in mexico or any other third world country gets better training than anyone in the U.S. Hell communism looks good on paper everyone has an equal number of everything. Our hard earned jobs are being sent overseas to countries where the workers get paid pennies to the dollars because it saves money. Its a good thing to save money, right? When did this nation turn on itself? When did greed become a good thing? This used to be a country where you worked hard to make life better for your family. Where did our heros go? Remember it used to be "It's not what this country can do for you. It's what can you do for your country" now its "What's in it for me" Never follow blindly.

QUICKSAND

Sunday, June 27, 2004 6:16 AM

This is all true, HK, except for one kinda side-note: Bush doesn't actually head anything, he FIGURE-heads his faction. You can't honestly expect me, or even Republicans, to believe that this man sat down at a desk and decided ANYthing on his own.

I *LIVE* in Texas, and trust me, he didn't get elected on his merits. He was elected on his name. And this blame-Liberals-first crap, lemme say something else-- the terrorists sure as hell weren't liberal, ya get me?

Let's all just give each other a big hug, and don't forget to VOTE!!

JCKNIFE

Sunday, June 27, 2004 1:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
LOL! Seriously though, your personal struggles with a dairy product and a video game character hardly qualify as a "world event," JC.

But see, they're surreal--as implied in the title.

KOBAYASHI

Sunday, June 27, 2004 2:10 PM

Uh, you guys don't understand the video at all. The Hitler stuff wasn't put together by the Bush people, but by the radical left in THEIR TV Ads. The video on the Bush website is simply showing clips of these wackos ads.

Now, I realize that most of you here are leftists, but c'mon... it not that hard to understand what was being show. Don't try to fool people, its not mature.

W04!

SOUPCATCHER

Sunday, June 27, 2004 7:48 PM

Quote:
Uh, you guys don't understand the video at all. The Hitler stuff wasn't put together by the Bush people, but by the radical left in THEIR TV Ads.

I can't speak for anyone else on this thread, but I am well aware of where those two clips with Hitler in them came from. They were posted in January as submissions to a contest sponsored by the MoveOn.org group. I remember the outcry that was raised by the right when 2 entries, out of more than a 1000, directly compared Bush to Hitler. The entries were removed by MoveOn.org and disqualified from the contest. I agree with you that the people responsible for those ads are from the radical left and their work, at the very least, reflected poor taste. But, as is the case with fringe entries, they were never going to win the contest, they were never going to be aired on television, and they were never going to be used by the Kerry campaign. You can go to the website and watch the entries that won to understand my first and second point. The fact that the Kerry campaign is separate from MoveOn.org is my basis for the third point. To sum up: Two entrants to a contest submitted highly negative attack ads on Bush. The Republicans complained. The contest organizers disqualified those submissions from the contest.

Quote:
The video on the Bush website is simply showing clips of these wackos ads.

Now here is where we diverge in opinion. Because I'm more concerned with the collection of clips put together. If all the Bush campaign wanted to do was say, "Here are two ads that compare Bush to Hitler. Aren't those Democrats a bunch of angry loonies" all they had to do was run the original submissions on their site and let people make up their own mind (which they did back in January). But what they did instead was take clips from those two submissions, and intersperse them with footage of various high-ranking Democrats speaking forcefully. And before Saturday, there was no introductory text. They just started off with a title along the lines of, "Coalition of the Wild Eyed" So the implied message was: here are a number of Democrats ranting about Bush, oh, and there's footage of Hitler, too, and then some more Democrats ranting, and at the end was footage of a calm, optimistic Bush with a slogan.

Quote:
Now, I realize that most of you here are leftists, but c'mon... it not that hard to understand what was being show.

I understand perfectly well what is being shown. It's the whole "guilt by association" using images and then the "well, it's not our images" defense. Putting things together in a new way constitutes the creation of a new work. This is an ad created by the George Bush campaign from various sources, but definitely created by them. Ask yourself why?

Quote:
Don't try to fool people, its not mature.

We are in complete agreement.

I shaved off my beard for you, devil woman!

JCKNIFE

Monday, June 28, 2004 2:30 AM

Okay, I was just goofing around with the "surreal" stuff above but now that I actually read this thread it is hilarious.

The point of this ad is to show how out of touch with reality the far left is. You obviously don't see it that way because you BELIVE the crap being spewed by the talking heads they showed. But trust me, most of the voting public will "get" this ad. I think it's brilliant. Democrats always portray Republicans as the party of "hate" or "intolerance" but really it's the other way arround. How's that for surreal?

SOUPCATCHER

Monday, June 28, 2004 4:10 AM

Okay. I'll try one more time. Here are the segments of the Bush ad: Al Gore speech, segment from entrant to contest comparing Bush to Hitler, Howard Dean speech, Michael Moore speech, Dick Gephardt (not sure if I spelled that right) speech, segment from another entrant to contest comparing Bush to Hitler, Al Gore speech, and John Kerry speech. Does something about this grouping stand out to you? We have four Democrat politicians, one famous liberal movie maker, and two unknowns. It would be like collecting speeches by Dick Cheney, Tom DeLay, Jeb Bush, George Bush, Rush Limbaugh, and then throwing in clips from videos created by two different unknowns comparing Kerry to Osama Bin Laden and calling it "Faces of the Republican Party." But the way you showed it was: Dick Cheney, clip with Osama, Jeb Bush, Rush Limbaugh, Tom DeLay, clip with Osama, Dick Cheney, and George Bush. And then this was e-mailed out to 6 million Democrats and prominently featured on John Kerry's web site.

It would be terribly disingenuous and Republicans would raise the roof. Of course you'd probably have to bleep Cheney just like they bleeped Kerry, only more so.

I shaved off my beard for you, devil woman!

HKCAVALIER

Monday, June 28, 2004 5:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JCKnife:
The point of this ad is to show how out of touch with reality the far left is.

Wow, seriously, seriously JC, if Al Gore and John Kerry are on the "far left" who the heck would you consider to be merely on the left? John McCain?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

JCKNIFE

Monday, June 28, 2004 12:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:

Wow, seriously, seriously JC, if Al Gore and John Kerry are on the "far left" who the heck would you consider to be merely on the left? John McCain?

Absolutely! Great example.

Can we trade you him for Zell Miller?

HKCAVALIER

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 5:33 AM

Hey Rickker,

Welcome to the world of fireflyfan politics. Thank you for your thoughtful post. It's a sad story we tell, isn't it? I sometimes wonder if it's possible for a government to be ethical. The exploitation of third world workers seems to be so ingrained in our american system, it's hard to imagine how we'll get back to the pride of "made in the U.S.A." Makes me nastalgic for old-school conservativism. These neo-cons have simply replaced "tax and spend" with "don't tax and spend anyway," meanwhile bankrupting every humanistic government program in sight.

Back in World War II americans understood that money didn't grow on trees, that everyone had to pull together and make sacrifices, war had a cost back then. Nowadays, we go to war, spend three billion dollars a month and everything just goes on, business as usual? How on earth can our economy actually be prospering under such conditions? But "actually" doesn't seem to matter anymore. Image is everything now.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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