War in Afghanistan

http://www.ericmargolis.com/political_commentaries/afghanistan-a-war-o
f-lies.aspx


I really like this journalist, he has actually spent time in this part of the world ( I read one his books where he talks about his two trips being smuggled across the Pakistan border during the Soviet occupation )

AFGHANISTAN: A WAR OF LIES
- October 12, 2009
President Barack Obama and Congress are wrestling with widening the war in Afghanistan. After eight years of military operations costing US $236 billion, the US commander in Afghanistan just warned of the threat of `failure,’ aka defeat.

Truth is war’s first casualty. The Afghan War’s biggest untruth is, `we’ve got to fight terrorists over there so we don’t have to fight them at home.’ Politicians and generals keep using this canard to justify a war they can’t otherwise explain or justify.

Many North Americans still buy this lie because they believe the 9/11 attacks came directly from the Afghanistan-based al-Qaida and Taliban movements.

Not true. The 9/11 attacks were planned in Germany and Spain, and conducted mainly by US-based Saudis to punish America for supporting Israel’s repression of the Palestinians.

Taliban, a militant religious, anti-Communist movement of Pashtun tribesmen, was totally surprised by 9/11. Osama bin Laden, on whom 9/11 is blamed, was in Afghanistan as a guest because he was a national hero for fighting the Soviets in the 1980’s and was aiding Taliban’s struggle against the Afghan Communist-dominated Northern Alliance afterwards.

Taliban received US aid until May, 2001. The CIA was planning to use Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaida to stir up Muslim Uighurs against Chinese rule, and to employ Taliban against Russia’s Central Asian allies. Most of the so-called `terrorist training camps’ in Afghanistan were being run by Pakistani intelligence to prepare mujahidin fighters for combat in Indian-held Kashmir.

continues

http://www.ericmargolis.com/political_commentaries/afghanistan-a-war-o
f-lies.aspx




Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Gino

Thanks. Fascinating stuff.


Niki, yes nice, concise. I don't mean don't rant, feel free, but understand that I, personally, right now, don't have a lot of free time. I have like a few minutes free to check and respond, and I'm not a lightning fast reader. Long posts, directed at me, if they're a discussion of a subject, I'll mark to read later. If they're stuff I'm interested in, I'll do the same.

I totally disagree with Frem here. I wasn't dictating, I as simply saying: a 5 page rant about why I'm wrong? I'm not going to read it. I don't have the time, and currently, from work, my stress level is *way* too high to deal with that.

If I make an error, or we disagree, kindly, just point it out concisely.

Thanks


Oh, and nice short posts.


Notice that PN just wrote a book. Esp. when you add watching all the videos, and reading all the links.


So, Nik, do you? When John posts all those 18 min vids and links to 8 page stories, do you watch, do you read it all, do you even read his posts? Or do you just hit page down 6 times in a row?

If it's the latter, then you get the point. it's a rant, doesn't matter about what.


Currently, I'm very stressed and ultra-short on time. I haven't had a solid hour off from work since Thanksgiving, I haven't had a day off in years.

New years I'm planning on quitting, trying to, do something else with my life, because I'm actually a little worried about dying. My healthcare plan is giving me the run around, I'm fairly certain I have cancer because I am pretty damn good at biology, and I can't even get the fucking tests because I'm in HMO hell. All of which doesn't help reduce my stress level at all.

So, my apologies to everyone if I've been a dick lately, I'm not having the best time ever right now.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

AFGHANISTAN: A WAR OF LIES
The Afghan War’s biggest untruth is, `we’ve got to fight terrorists over there so we don’t have to fight them at home.’ Politicians and generals keep using this canard to justify a war they can’t otherwise explain or justify.
Many North Americans still buy this lie because they believe the 9/11 attacks came directly from the Afghanistan-based al-Qaida and Taliban movements.

Not true. The 9/11 attacks were planned in Germany and Spain, and conducted mainly by US-based Saudis to punish America for supporting Israel’s repression of the Palestinians.

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We never were too concerned with the Taliban atrocities against civilians in Afghanistan until after 911. I think we're there for one reason only; to have a contingency force nearby in case the Taliban get close to the Pakistani nukes if that government collapses.

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Off topic Edit. To the PM system!

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Quote:

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
agree with Frem here. I wasn't dictating, I as simply saying: a 5 page rant about why I'm wrong? I'm not going to read it. I don't have the time, and currently, from work, my stress level is *way* too high to deal with that.

If I make an error, or we disagree, kindly, just point it out concisely.

Thanks


Oh, and nice short posts.


Notice that PN just wrote a book. Esp. when you add watching all the videos, and reading all the links.


So, Nik, do you? When John posts all those 18 min vids and links to 8 page stories, do you watch, do you read it all, do you even read his posts? Or do you just hit page down 6 times in a row?

If it's the latter, then you get the point. it's a rant, doesn't matter about what.

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Brings ta mind NewOldBrownCoat's Rule:
"Any time the posts in a thread get longer than 1 page, it's time to quit reading that thread."

As to Afghanistan, it's long past time to just bring the boys ( and GIRLS, PN punked me on that one.) HOME. There's no gain there, not even anything to hold stable, no credible threat that can be actually stopped, that's worth the cost.

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Quote:

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If you already *know* all the answers , why are you still raising the questions ? Just looking for another oportunity [sic] to beat your gums , so to speak ?

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Gawd, OTB, you’re a real asshole, aren’t you?? I quite clearly said I don’t know all the answers, and I wasn’t asking any questions…answered Byte’s question to the best of my ability, and started this out by saying “Okay, here's a new thread where we can rant and rave and offer our opinions of the war itself. What does any of that have to do with your asinine statement? Nothing, obviously. What thread were YOU reading? You’re strange. And nasty.

Yes, byte, I think you phrased it well; more about geography. While virtually all Afghans are Muslim, they view and practice Islam differently in many cases. Some areas are more lax in following its tenants, others much more conservative. And your remark is especially cogent, as it was for hundreds of years (and still is to a degree) “governed” by local warlords—a large part of the reason the shah who was there when we lived there didn’t attempt to “rule” the whole country, but more to provide a central government to deal with the outside world and major matters.

You also nailed real good the correlation to authoritarianism. I would say that’s right on; seclusion from other ideas and people makes for a really good climate for authoritarians (tribal leaders, warlords) with strong control over their areas. Discourse with other areas and the outside world creates a very insular community, prime for authoritarian rule. I do see your comparison with the FLDS…don’t like it, but yes, I see it. ;o)

Gino, yes, I think the material you supplied shows a good grasp of the situation. This bullpucky about having to defeat the terrorists or they’ll “come here” shows how well Dumbya and his people used fear to justify both Iraq and Afghanistan, and the idea that the Taliban would hook up with Al Qaeda if we left is equally absurd and equally plays on fear. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are very different and have been at odds with one another virtually since the beginning. I can’t imagine the Taliban giving a “base” to Al Qaeda in my wildest dreams; for one thing, having terrorists make a base there would make them more vulnerable to outside military action, and their aim is control of Afghanistan (and possibly areas around it). They’re not “terrorists”, they’re a religious faction which wants to control the country and make everyone abide by their religious tenants, not take a jihad global. That people have bought into both these “canards” sickens me…and DT had some pretty pertinent remarks similar to what the author wrote on the subject. Propaganda can be effective, and it has been here.\

DT, I’m not sure to what you are referring. Frem didn’t post in this thread, so I don’t know what you are disagreeing with, or to what else you are referring. Maybe I’ll find the reference In another thread? As to PN:

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So, Nik, do you? When John posts all those 18 min vids and links to 8 page stories, do you watch, do you read it all, do you even read his posts? Or do you just hit page down 6 times in a row?

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Heavens no; I’ve railed numerous times about wearing out my “scrolling finger” getting past his rants; I may skim what HE actually writes now and again, tho’ usually I get turned off by the very first comment, but I pay no attention to 99% of his idiocy!

But I, too, am concerned about your health…and as usual, royally pissed at for-profit HMOs and their dictatorial attitudes. Of course we didn’t need any public option, or any form of competition! I think tho’ some of us disagree about how it should be done, most of us agree the situation is untenable and something needs to be done to bring their monopolies in line. that there will be no public option of any kind yet the individual mandate stands

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