War in Afghanistan
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Friday, November 28, 2025 16:36
VIEWED: 6755
PAGE 1 of 8
Okay, here's a new thread where we can rant and rave and offer our opinions of the war itself. May I respectfully request that the one about the culture and people of the country be allowed to sink of its own weight; obviously there is no further interest in that aspect, and much interest in our current involvement there, so let it go here. Thank you.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
<
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Niki
Thanks, and good idea.
I'm going to change the title. I skipped this thread on the first pass because I assumed it was PN (sorry John, you post more than I have time to read.)
ETA: I also changed to "Afghan" assuming the greater meaning to include the Pashtun of Pakistan and any related populations which might get caught up in this conflict.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Okay, so here's a question. What are the cultural influences involved in this war? We have various factions (Taliban, Al Qaeda, installed Afghan government, us, various warlords, probably even more), but it's difficult to discern where tribal/village allegiance might fall.
Granted, there are a number of villages being paid or forced to support whoever is passing through at the time. I believe someone here once said something along the lines of "I'll bend my knee to you now if you'll go away later and leave me alone." But surely, there has to be some villages/groups that do support one faction over another, as opposed to just going with the flow in order to survive? These factions have to be getting support from somewhere, right?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I can't speak to your question authoritatively, and it was I who quoted the "bend your knee" thing. It's the attitude the Afghans have had toward all their conquerors...at least the rural people, who know their country won't be held by anyone for long, so they just pretend acceptance and wait.
Most villages go with the above, from what I'm told and have read. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are supported by outside influences, they don't need the support of the rural areas, and indeed, the rural areas have nothing to offer in the way of support except picking up a rifle and fighting when the fight comes to them.
It's been explained previously, and on TV and in print, that in most cases, when the war comes to their village, they side with anyone but the Americans because we are the foreigners, and also because there's nothing else to do, so the young men fight "just 'cuz", weird as that seems.
There are some areas actually RULED by the Taliban, or warlords who follow them, etc., and those areas are firmly anti-American. Al Qaeda hardly exists in Afghanistan, it's moved on, and was originally manned by non-Afghans anyway. But the Taliban has a stranglehold on a lot of the rural areas, partly because rural areas are more conservative, more closely followers of Islam. I don't think they'd fight us if we didn't bring the battle TO them, but there are also many areas where the Taliban is hated and feared, so if we help, they'll fight to get rid of them.
It's complex. The differences between rural and urban areas are huge; not just financially, but literacy-wise, religiously, exposure to different ideas, and more. The South has ALWAYS been the traditional base of the Mullahs and more conservative; the North, with Kabul in it's heart, has always been more modern and westernized. So you've got that working as well; and in the far North, where the mujahadeen began, it's more warlord-run.
There's just too much space--space that is difficult to traverse--in one country for centralized government to work at this time, and for the spreading of different ideas to take hold very quickly.
That's what I believe from my experience and what I'm told. I'm sure there's more to it.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Niki
Thanks, and good idea.
I'm going to change the title. I skipped this thread on the first pass because I assumed it was PN (sorry John, you post more than I have time to read.)
ETA: I also changed to "Afghan" assuming the greater meaning to include the Pashtun of Pakistan and any related populations which might get caught up in this conflict.
For Folk permaybehaps wondering about the motive for this present war in AFbamaScam , check out this google search result :
http://www.google.com/search?q=Cheney+pipeline+Afghanistan&sourceid=ie
7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8
Interesting reading , should hold Folk for a few ticks...Poly-ticks...Many bloodsuckers...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Most of us don't wonder, we already know the answer to that, just as we do to the reasons for the war in Iraq. I believe DT enumerated it quite clearly in another post, and I agree with 3 out of his 4 conclusions.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
...Most of us don't wonder, we already know the answer to that, just as we do to the reasons for the war in Iraq. I believe DT enumerated it quite clearly in another post, and I agree with 3 out of his 4 conclusions.
I happen to agree with more than 75% of DT's conclusions in this matter...
Isn't the point of discussion to educate and inform ?
If you already *know* all the answers , why are you still raising the questions ? Just looking for another opportunity to beat your gums , so to speak ?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/can-the-americans-win-a-l
and-war-in-afghanistan-670448.html
Sunday, 23 September 2001
' "We do deserts, we don't do mountains," said Colin Powell when he was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as the Balkans' conflict erupted. '
http://www.ringnebula.com/Oil/Timeline.htm
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Afghan President Karzai Says US Army Must Continue Afghan War Until 2024
www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/world/asia/09gates.html
Queen of England gives Afghan President Karzai knighthood
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2968994.stm
Afghan President Karzai's Brother Under Drug Suspicion
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,434523,00.html
Afghan president Karzai’s brother on CIA payroll
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33500863/
Afghan heroin production up 1,400% since the US/UK invasion
The Assassination Of Pat Tillman
http://www.rense.com/general77/assassination.htm
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/27/21214/1997
Afghan Prime Minister: No Afghan Involved In 9/11 Attacks
http://news.ino.com/headlines/?newsid=100720090301
None of the alleged 9/11 "suicide hijackers" were citizens of Afghanistan, and half are still alive giving interviews to BBC News and flying for Saudi Airlines and Saudi Air Force. Bush Jr signed the order to invade Afghanistan 1 day before 9/11/2001, and the US Army was already on the border of Afghanistan on 9/11.
Quote:
"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks.”
-Usama bin Laden, CNN, "Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks," September 17, 2001
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming."
-Dick Cheney, "Interview of the Vice President by Tony Snow", March 29, 2006
www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060329-2.html
"I have already said that I am not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other human beings as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the U.S. Government has stated. But the Bush Administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive. They can be anyone, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia. In the U.S. itself, there are dozens of well-organized and well-equipped groups, which are capable of causing a large-scale destruction. Then you cannot forget the American-Jews, who are annoyed with President Bush ever since the elections in Florida and want to avenge him. This system is totally in the control of the American Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States. It is clear that the American people are themselves the slaves of the Jews and are forced to live according to the principles and laws laid down by them."
-Usama Bin Laden, Ummat magazine, September 28, 2001
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/obl_int.htm
Usama Bin Laden's funeral: Egyptian Paper Al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osama_dead.html
"He also had dealings with Omar Sheikh [MI6 born in Britain], the man who murdered Usama Bin Laden."
-Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto (assassinated 6 weeks later), BBC interview by Sir David Frost Knight of the British Empire, 2nd November 2007
youtube.com/watch?v=oIO8B6fpFSQ
http://www.iraq-war.ru/article/151951
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/28/pakistan.topstories33
"The FBI has issued a BOLO on suspected terrorists driving a white delivery van from New York City to the Mexican border. TheNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Interesting. So less so much specific groups and cultural ideas, and more so geographical isolation?
That makes some sense. Could this have anything to do with the ideas about authoritarianism you read about in that book? This concept of more extreme and traditional away from the urban centers makes me think of the FLDS compounds in southern Utah.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME