Talk Story

How messed up are you?

POSTED BY: Iremisst
UPDATED: Thursday, January 21, 2010 23:52
VIEWED: 19073
PAGE 7 of 10

KWICKO

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 6:43 PM

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(notice the z in prioritize)

Rafterman, do you REALLY want to go down that road? He's British, so "prioritise" IS correct spelling. We Yanks are the ones who misspell it.

And do you want me to go through all YOUR posts and point out the spelling and grammatical errors "their"? Really? You'd end up quite embarrassed about your teaching ambitions, I'm afraid. ;)

More later; back to work for now. See, some of us DO have full-time jobs, and I've never been without one in the last 30 years, except for the six-month sabbatical I took in 1998, when I did some much needed travelling.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

KWICKO

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 6:51 PM

Oh, hell, I just can't resist just a couple more quick zingers...

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Take a little time and read the Constitution. Its only 17 pages long.

You mean the one that starts, and I quote:

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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Now really, what could more promote the general welfare than good health? And without your health, what good are any of the other provisions of the document?

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The progressives believe that it is a living document subject to interpretation and change. Sure you can change it with an amendment but not by just passing laws and adding power to the Federal Government whenever you want.

Yeah, the conservatives (like you, I take it) seem to think you can change it by simply ignoring the parts you don't agree with or like.

Can you show me in the Constitution where the USA Patriot Act fits in? Warrantless wiretaps? Torture? Illegal wars with no declaration of war from Congress? I'll defer to your expertise, since you're clearly so well-versed in the Constitution.

Oh, I notice also that you're in favor of tort reform and allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines. Is that based on passing federal laws to allow such, and taking away the states' rights to set such regulations? If so, why are you so gung-ho to take away states' rights and hand them to the federal government?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

XRAFTERMANX

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 7:07 PM

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If nobody in the US is allowed to die EVER, then how do you explained the statistics that show many thousands die from lack of health care?

When a person seeks medical care at a Hospital in the United States they are not denied for a lack of insurance. There are many things to die from, but a lack of medical insurance not one. Some may not seek medical care if they do not have insurance and some with insurance do not seek care because of an irrational fear of hospitals. Send a link with a peer-reviewed study and verifiable statistics instead of just saying statistics that show.

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I really don't care about US policies for regulating the working week. It's rather beside the point, surely. Why did you even bring that up?

Why? Because it has everything to do with the economics of Health Care. The EU regulates the work week and as such their is no incentive to working hard. A doctor will put in his/her 48 hours and go home because he/she will not get paid and it is illegal. So doctors become scarce. They get paid less because they see less patients. Those who would enter the profession do not choose to because they can not make enough money to even pay back their student loans. So what is left is the rationing of Health Care. And you get to stand in line. You pay more in you taxes for less services than you would in a private system. This is rudimentary economics. 99% of economist's in the free world agree that the 20th-century British economist John Maynard Keynes was wrong.

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Finally, I shall refrain from making comments about you comparing yourself to a two year old.

I like this and will gladly say NO to authority figures who tell me to do something that I do not want to do and know is wrong. We said NO to crazy King George and look how that turned out.

What would the Captain think? Live free or die comes to mind.

XRAFTERMANX

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 7:47 PM

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You mean the one that starts, and I quote:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

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Now really, what could more promote the general welfare than good health? And without your health, what good are any of the other provisions of the document?

This being the liberal interpretation of welfare. The provisions of the Constitution are pretty specific.

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Yeah, the conservatives (like you, I take it) seem to think you can change it by simply ignoring the parts you don't agree with or like.

Can you show me in the Constitution where the USA Patriot Act fits in? Warrantless wiretaps? Torture? Illegal wars with no declaration of war from Congress? I'll defer to your expertise, since you're clearly so well-versed in the Constitution.

I am a Libertarian. I don't agree with the Patriot Act, Warrantless Wiretaps, Torture, or a declaration of war without the approval of Congress.

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Oh, I notice also that you're in favor of tort reform and allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines. Is that based on passing federal laws to allow such, and taking away the states' rights to set such regulations? If so, why are you so gung-ho to take away states' rights and hand them to the federal government?

I wouldn't say gung-ho but yeah Tort reform is a good thing. Texas has done it and it is working very well for their economy. Non-economic damages are limited to $750,000. States are doing it on their own but the system as a whole is off. One of the few powers granted to Congress is the regulation of interstate commerce. There is an allowance of auto insurance but not health, so what gives. Those blocking these two things are getting rich and it is just hurting the everyday man. Opening up interstate commerce is not taking away states rights.

What is taking away states rights is mandating that all citizens must purchase health insurance. In the house bill, if you do not purchase health insurance you will be fined. If you do not pay the fine you will be imprisoned.

So forget the Republicans who spend like crazy and forget the Democrats who spend like crazy cause we can not afford our liabilities now. We are toast. The dollar is weakening and inflation is here. Wait til crude gets traded in everything but US dollars. Inflation will go through the roof.

KWICKO

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 11:40 PM

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Why? Because it has everything to do with the economics of Health Care. The EU regulates the work week and as such their is no incentive to working hard. A doctor will put in his/her 48 hours and go home because he/she will not get paid and it is illegal. So doctors become scarce. They get paid less because they see less patients. Those who would enter the profession do not choose to because they can not make enough money to even pay back their student loans. So what is left is the rationing of Health Care. And you get to stand in line. You pay more in you taxes for less services than you would in a private system. This is rudimentary economics. 99% of economist's in the free world agree that the 20th-century British economist John Maynard Keynes was wrong.

Since you were asking the OP for links to peer-reviewed studies and cites for some of his claims, might I ask you for the same?

By the way, the "socialized" French healthcare system is ranked Number One in the world. Sorry if that doesn't jibe with your preconceived notions.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

KWICKO

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 11:44 PM

Quote:
So forget the Republicans who spend like crazy and forget the Democrats who spend like crazy cause we can not afford our liabilities now. We are toast. The dollar is weakening and inflation is here. Wait til crude gets traded in everything but US dollars. Inflation will go through the roof.

Sounds like we should do away with ALL subsidies. That would include subsidies to private corporations in any form (tax abatements, sales tax rebates, etc.), subsidies to farms to not grown crops, subsidies to automakers, subsidies to parents for having children, etc.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

XRAFTERMANX

Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:32 AM

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Since you were asking the OP for links to peer-reviewed studies and cites for some of his claims, might I ask you for the same?

Did I use or quote statistics in anything. If I did I will provide. I thought I was just writing in general terms that all could grasp. Yet, if you use the terms of they said, or statistics say just back them up.

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By the way, the "socialized" French healthcare system is ranked Number One in the world. Sorry if that doesn't jibe with your preconceived notions.

Number One according to? The World Health Organization? What are their stats? Well check out this link by the CATO institute. Yes they are conservative but their information is good.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp101.pdf

My favorite stat from the W.H.O. is that if you have any increase in health services your score goes up. However it does not have to increase for everyone in your country. If the health services increase for the wealthy only and the poor stay the same your country's score goes up.

I would never go to France for a surgery. We have the best doctors and you get what you pay for.

KWICKO

Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:41 AM

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I wouldn't say gung-ho but yeah Tort reform is a good thing. Texas has done it and it is working very well for their economy. Non-economic damages are limited to $750,000. States are doing it on their own but the system as a whole is off. One of the few powers granted to Congress is the regulation of interstate commerce. There is an allowance of auto insurance but not health, so what gives. Those blocking these two things are getting rich and it is just hurting the everyday man. Opening up interstate commerce is not taking away states rights.

Actually, you're wrong - Texas HAS done it, and has had very mixed reviews. Non-economic damages are capped at $250,000, by the way, not $750,000. 34 states have enacted tort reform, but apparently neo-LIbertarians don't believe the states know what they're doing, because they - along with the Republicans who spawned them - seem to think that we need a massive new federal program aimed at tort reform at the federal level, and at putting all class-action lawsuits into the federal system.

Which is all a very nice subsidy for big business. We'll cap their payouts, but malpractice incidents won't become less common, and the malpractice insurance premiums won't come down anywhere near as much as the payouts are lessened for the carriers. It's a win-win for the insurance industry, which you seem to be very happy for. Your supposed "libertarian" leanings seem to me to be nothing more than neo-Bushisms under their latest name: tea-bagging. It's the same old corporatism, but today you call it "libertarianism" where yesterday you called it "neo-conservatism".

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

XRAFTERMANX

Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:46 AM

Quote:

Sounds like we should do away with ALL subsidies. That would include subsidies to private corporations in any form (tax abatements, sales tax rebates, etc.), subsidies to farms to not grown crops, subsidies to automakers, subsidies to parents for having children, etc.

Are we actually in agreement or is this sarcasm.

The biggest sticking point with member nations of the World Trade Organization in the past 10 years or so has been food subsidies and sending Food to Africa as relief. The EU is the worst culprit followed closely by the United States. These governing bodies buy food at market prices and send it to drought stricken regions in Africa. This, in turn, bankrupts the struggling local farmers. They could possibly make it if they did not have to compete with the Free food provided by the USA and the EU.

The USA and the EU argue that we can not open up trade because we need to be self sufficient. It just may be a national security issue but the Food Aid should stop.

The worst food subsidy is the sugar subsidy put in place by Kennedy during the Cuban Missile Crisis. It was supposed to be repealed 6 years ago, but it didn't happen. We turned to High Fructose Corn Syrup for a cheap sweetener in everything. If you have every tasted a coke made with real sugar then you know what you are missing. It is so, so much better.

KWICKO

Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by xraftermanx:
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Since you were asking the OP for links to peer-reviewed studies and cites for some of his claims, might I ask you for the same?

Did I use or quote statistics in anything. If I did I will provide. I thought I was just writing in general terms that all could grasp. Yet, if you use the terms of they said, or statistics say just back them up.

So you feel comfortable making blanket claims like this without any sourcing or backup?

Quote:
Why? Because it has everything to do with the economics of Health Care. The EU regulates the work week and as such their is no incentive to working hard. A doctor will put in his/her 48 hours and go home because he/she will not get paid and it is illegal. So doctors become scarce. They get paid less because they see less patients. Those who would enter the profession do not choose to because they can not make enough money to even pay back their student loans. So what is left is the rationing of Health Care. And you get to stand in line. You pay more in you taxes for less services than you would in a private system. This is rudimentary economics. 99% of economist's in the free world agree that the 20th-century British economist John Maynard Keynes was wrong.

You've not shown any evidence to back up your claims that the EU regulates work weeks (the US Department of Labor does the same thing here, by the way), to show a "scarcity" of doctors, to show that "99% of economist's [sic] in the world agree" on ANYTHING, or any of your other ludicrous claims. Now you try to lay it all off as "you're just saying", like you didn't really mean any of it. So you admit you were making all this up?

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Quote:

By the way, the "socialized" French healthcare system is ranked Number One in the world. Sorry if that doesn't jibe with your preconceived notions.

Number One according to? The World Health Organization? What are their stats? Well check out this link by the CATO institute. Yes they are conservative but their information is good.

"Good" according to? According to them, because they made it up? According to you, because it agrees with your preconceived notions? Sorry, but if you get to dismiss my sources, don't expect me to blindly trust yours just because YOU say they're good. ;)

Quote:

My favorite stat from the W.H.O. is that if you have any increase in health services your score goes up. However it does not have to increase for everyone in your country. If the health services increase for the wealthy only and the poor stay the same your country's score goes up.

I would never go to France for a surgery. We have the best doctors and you get what you pay for.

"Best" according to? And if you get what you pay for, why aren't we the healthiest nation on Earth? After all, we pay FAR more for healthcare than any other nation on the planet (and if we're not using sources or cites, I can comfortably say that we pay twelve thousand times more than the rest of the world combined! ;0 ), and we don't get better outcomes than they do.

I know you really believe all this "We're number one!" bullshit, but you seriously need to turn off the GlenBeck and the RushBaugh and open your eyes and ears a bit.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde