How messed up are you?
POSTED BY: Iremisst
UPDATED: Thursday, January 21, 2010 23:52
VIEWED: 19073
PAGE 6 of 10
Kwicko-
You must be very young or maybe just naive. Perhaps you would like to go work for the BlueSun.
Simplest terms. A Free Market with multiple companies and competition brings down prices and gives incentives for innovation and efficiency. The lack of consumer knowledge makes it easy for companies to take advantage. HSA's are wonderful because that give some control back to the consumer. The HSA consumer must find the best price for visits and treatment. This leads to an educated consumer.
A public option is not an option. No one can compete with public dollars ever. There is no incentive to be efficient. An appointee will not have the option of failure. They will beat the competition at any cost for the sake of politics. The FED will make the rules that will benefit the public option. The most notable one is that the public option will be available to every state but private insurance companies will not be able sell across state lines.
Case in point. The United States Postal Service is the only company legally allowed to place mail into your mail box. Get rid of that rule and you will have UPS, DHL, and FEDEX all jumping in but because we have subsidized the USPS all these years, and still do, the other companies would be hard pressed to compete.
By the way, do you think that all the Insurance companies get together and hold secret meetings and say we will all charge this... NO. They are competing for our business. The FED doesn't compete...they Dictate... because that's what governments are for, to get in a Man's way.
You should really watch FF/S again.
p.s. there are a few corporations and a number of unions that are endorsing the public option. Why? isn't this just supposed to make it more competitive? Or will the few make out big?
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Quote:Agreed.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
If 42,000 people dying every year in this country due to not having health insurance isn't a crisis, and if 40 MILLION of us being uninsured ISN'T a crisis, I don't see any reason why we'd ever even worry about 3000 dead in a ginned up "crisis" having to do with alleged terrorism.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Cops and firefighters are local issue, the military is a national issue.
Proper functions of Gov't. That's why. Thus endeth the civics lesson.
( And the 40,000+ folks dying because they lack health insurance is a totally fabricated #, as is the 40 MILLION number unable to get insurance, so there's no point in debating that point. ) 
The T.Rex they call JANE!
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Quote:
Originally posted by xraftermanx:
Kwicko-
You must be very young or maybe just naive. Perhaps you would like to go work for the BlueSun.
Nope. Not young, not naive. And aren't YOU the one looking to go to work for "The Man", as a teacher? I'm sure they'll be glad to have another preprogrammed drone at their behest.
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Simplest terms. A Free Market with multiple companies and competition brings down prices and gives incentives for innovation and efficiency. The lack of consumer knowledge makes it easy for companies to take advantage. HSA's are wonderful because that give some control back to the consumer. The HSA consumer must find the best price for visits and treatment. This leads to an educated consumer.
What if a consumer doesn't WANT to get educated in this area, they just want to be able to see a doctor when they're sick, without having to go to medical school and become a CPA beforehand? Do you know how to rebuild your car's engine? Can you do so at 6am, so you can get to work in the morning? Or do you just want the damn thing to WORK when you turn the key?
As to your "simplest terms", I'd say the "free market" led us where we are now, and if you're so into competition, why are you so against letting a not-for-profit option into the marketplace to compete? Are you afraid they'd kick the living shit out of your beloved insurance companies? You say it couldn't possibly be done effectively or efficiently, yet you quake in mortal fear at the mere mention of the possibility. Sounds rather young and naive to me...
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A public option is not an option. No one can compete with public dollars ever. There is no incentive to be efficient. An appointee will not have the option of failure. They will beat the competition at any cost for the sake of politics. The FED will make the rules that will benefit the public option. The most notable one is that the public option will be available to every state but private insurance companies will not be able sell across state lines.
Case in point. The United States Postal Service is the only company legally allowed to place mail into your mail box. Get rid of that rule and you will have UPS, DHL, and FEDEX all jumping in but because we have subsidized the USPS all these years, and still do, the other companies would be hard pressed to compete.
You missed the point entirely. I deal with shipping and receiving on a daily basis. On some stuff, the US Post Office is THE best option, bar none. On other stuff, not so much. If you want to get a letter across town, you can pay the Post Office forty-four cents, or you can pay FedEx or UPS around $7.50. One of those companies is a government-run not-for-profit enterprise. Oddly, the other two still seem to be able to eke out a living... Do you think the almost twenty-fold difference in price is all down to the fact that UPS isn't allowed to put a letter in your MAILBOX? Really?
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By the way, do you think that all the Insurance companies get together and hold secret meetings and say we will all charge this... NO. They are competing for our business. The FED doesn't compete...they Dictate... because that's what governments are for, to get in a Man's way.
Do you think private companies DO NOT ever collude to set prices? Man, and you call ME naive...
By the way, you'll note that insurance profits are up over 428% over the last decade. Sounds like they're really slashing prices to keep the competition stiff, eh?
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You should really watch FF/S again.
Why? So I can see how the Alliance cruiser takes in even "outlaws" and gives them free healthcare?
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p.s. there are a few corporations and a number of unions that are endorsing the public option. Why? isn't this just supposed to make it more competitive? Or will the few make out big?
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Cops and firefighters are local issue, the military is a national issue.
Proper functions of Gov't. That's why. Thus endeth the civics lesson.
"Proper functions of government." That's it? That's all you've got? You don't have an actual answer or reason, do you? WHY should I be obligated to pay for the healthcare of people who were too stupid to stay out of the way of incoming fire? Why them and nobody else?
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( And the 40,000+ folks dying because they lack health insurance is a totally fabricated #, as is the 40 MILLION number unable to get insurance, so there's no point in debating that point. )
Because RAPPY says so, eh? You can't argue the point, so "there's no point in debating" it.
By the way, your claim that "there is no crisis"? It's bullshit. You made it up, pulled it out of your ass, so there's no point in debating it, because you're clearly wrong, as usual. Debate over. You lose.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
By the way, your claim that "there is no crisis"? It's bullshit. You made it up, pulled it out of your ass, so there's no point in debating it, because you're clearly wrong, as usual. Debate over. You lose.
Awww....did I say something that's different and scary for you to hear? Good. Because I'll say it again. Despite what you're seeing in the news, despite what Congress is going through, this 'crisis' is purely manufactured for political reasons.
This isn't RWED. I'm not debating here, just offering my 2 cents.
Deal w/ it.
( and just to clarify.. we pay soldier's salaries, college education, and retirement, so it logically follows we'd pay for their medical as well. They defend THE NATION, so it's only proper the nation pays them for their service. City & local communities foot the bill for their LOCAL services. Due function of Govt )
The T.Rex they call JANE!
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Quote:
Nope. Not young, not naive. And aren't YOU the one looking to go to work for "The Man", as a teacher? I'm sure they'll be glad to have another preprogrammed drone at their behest.
Can't beat, join em' for now. 30% unemployment in Detroit and even Teachers are being laid off. In all likelihood I will be at a private college which is my goal anyway.
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What if a consumer doesn't WANT to get educated in this area, they just want to be able to see a doctor when they're sick, without having to go to medical school and become a CPA beforehand? Do you know how to rebuild your car's engine? Can you do so at 6am, so you can get to work in the morning? Or do you just want the damn thing to WORK when you turn the key?
Mechanics love to work over Dupes. Salesmen love to sell you stuff you don't need. Extended warranties, Rust proofing, etc... Why would an insurance salesman be any different. Now, when it comes to consuming healthcare an insurance company can pay what it wants to if it is large enough and can stiff-arm the doctor and the Dupe just hands over the card says Okay. HSA'a make the consumer responsible. If you like being a dupe that's cool but don't complain about profits.
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As to your "simplest terms", I'd say the "free market" led us where we are now, and if you're so into competition, why are you so against letting a not-for-profit option into the marketplace to compete? Are you afraid they'd kick the living shit out of your beloved insurance companies? You say it couldn't possibly be done effectively or efficiently, yet you quake in mortal fear at the mere mention of the possibility. Sounds rather young and naive to me...
The public government option is NOT a non-profit. Their profit is a political "I told you so". If it is allowed they will win. It's a foregone conclusion. They have no choice but to win or admit they were wrong. Politicians love admitting when their wrong:) I have seen what other countries provide and yes it is scary. Everything the government does is inefficient. Bureaucracy is what you will get. Wait and wait and wait and die.
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You missed the point entirely. I deal with shipping and receiving on a daily basis. On some stuff, the US Post Office is THE best option, bar none. On other stuff, not so much. If you want to get a letter across town, you can pay the Post Office forty-four cents, or you can pay FedEx or UPS around $7.50. One of those companies is a government-run not-for-profit enterprise. Oddly, the other two still seem to be able to eke out a living... Do you think the almost twenty-fold difference in price is all down to the fact that UPS isn't allowed to put a letter in your MAILBOX? Really?
I deal in shipping? Whoopty Doo. Did you miss the word subsidized in my original. I ran a Bulk Mail Business for three years. A non-profit can send a newsletter every month for as little as 6 cents/piece. Magazines are sent for as little as 14 cents/piece. If you want pricing go to a large PO and go to the back to the Bulk Mail Entry and pick up a free copy of the Quick Service Guide. The taxpayers pay the difference. We always have and the government sets it up so private companies can not compete at all.
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Do you think private companies DO NOT ever collude to set prices? Man, and you call ME naive...
It is illegal to price fix and if they did the company is lost. They do not need to price fix with the system they have. Lots of dupes in this country. Its like two gas stations across from each other at an intersection. Both watch each other intently and the price flutters. The system sucks the way it is. If we had food insurance we would all be eating steak everyday. Car insurance covers the catastrophic but we pay for the day to day maintenance like brakes, tires, oil changes, etc... The doctors and the patients need the control. Most doctors will order up extra tests so that they are covered against a lawsuit. We need Tort reform.
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Posted by xraftermanx: "You get what you pay for. Instead of a new car at $500/mo + gas + insurance + tax + tags, buy a used vehicle and get yourself covered. I guess you have to have priorities or big brother can pay for everything and you have to wait your turn and ask permission. Your choice."
My prioroties are just fine thank you very much. I do not have a new car + gas + insurance + bells + whistles etc etc etc. I can't afford such luxuries any more than I could afford health insurance, and if I had to choose, health coverage would of course come first. Don't try to paint me as some selfish layabout who expects to have everything handed to him so he can live in luxury.
Private health care in Britain may be expensive, but that doesn't matter because in the vast majority of cases it IS NOT NEEDED. Sometimes people have to wait for procedures, but treatments are prioritised so that people with urgent problems get treated promptly. Are you really so impatient that you would prefer to have your every petty ailment seen to immediately, even if that means the very poor are left to suffer and maybe die? Not everyone has an excess of money, to spend on cars and whatever else you listed. Many people can't even afford to make ends meet. If you can't understand or sympathise with such situations, well I quite frankly don't wish to hear your opinion.
"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."
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Quote:
Sometimes people have to wait for procedures, but treatments are prioritised so that people with urgent problems get treated promptly. Are you really so impatient that you would prefer to have your every petty ailment seen to immediately, even if that means the very poor are left to suffer and maybe die?
I guess you don't quite know how it works in the USA. Emergency Rooms have a triage nurse that sorts though the patients and prioritizes (notice the z in prioritize) by severity regardless of the patients status to pay. Operations that are not emergent are bumped for those that are. We DO NOT leave the poor to die EVER. We do have some problems with "layabouts" crowding our ER's and treating them like free clinics because they get faster service there. Hospitals pass on the cost of "free" treatment to the other consumers. It's not perfect but the quality of care is not diminished. Quality of care does include timeliness of care.
My aunt should never have been made to wait 10 months in excruciating back pain for a surgery because Canada prioritizes and allocates its resources based upon the money it mismanages. Talk about having your priorities out of wack.
Speaking about cars in the UK. Petrol is 1.10/liter today. That is 1.78 US dollars. That is $6.78/gallon in US dollars. Why so much? A barrel of crude is the same price the world over. Oh yeah, gotta pay for that wonderful healthcare. And how about those luxury taxes on engines over 2.0liters and automatic transmissions. No wonder you can't afford a car. We pay $2.50/gallon right now and hate it. I drive a 4.0Liter and love it. There's no replacement for displacement.
In one way the US stands alone. We do not regulate the work week and time off like so many of our Allies. The UK got busted for opting out of the EU regulations and now all EU member states are complying. 48hr max work week including overtime. Hard to make a living if you have low pay and can not legally take a second job. Doctors in the EU used to average a 58hr work week and now it is 48. Limited resources will drive up the costs or you just prioritize and make people wait. Then you can add a mandated 4week paid vacation for everyone and 1.6 weeks worth of government holidays. Most Americans would love 5.6 weeks off per year. Yet we also like to work hard and get overtime.
We are born free with an aversion to authority telling us what to do. Ask a two-year old to do something and they say NO. We are conditioned to queue up and wait and nobody queue's like a Brit.
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To answer your main points in roughly the order in which they occured:
Prioritise is an acceptable variation. Continental differences and all that. Look it up.
I admit that our system isn't perfect. It is overly beaurocratic, as is everythign in Britain currently.
If nobody in the US is allowed to die EVER, then how do you explained the statistics that show many thousands die from lack of health care?
Prices here ARE unbelievable, you win that one. But that's not what stops me from owning a car. Some people are just a victim of circumstances, full stop. I have no disposable income at all. Cars would have to be free for me have one.
I really don't care about US policies for regulating the working week. It's rather beside the point, surely. Why did you even bring that up?
Finally, I shall refrain from making comments about you comparing yourself to a two year old.
"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."
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