'Frakkin FBI Pig' anarchist Branden Darby tried to bomb 9/11 Truth bookstore

POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 20:40
VIEWED: 3126
PAGE 1 of 1

PIRATENEWS

Monday, November 16, 2009 10:16 PM

Brandon Darby of Austin, Texas was an anarchist in the global struggle against capitalist neoliberalism. Brandon Darby was also working undercover as a snitch for the FBI. Brandon Darby testified in the case of David McKay the last week of January 2009. After 3 days of deliberation, the trial ended in a hung jury, largely due to the role of Brandon Darby as a provocateur. McKay will be retried in March. In the closing arguements McKay's defense attorney declared that Brandon "...wasn't the eyes and ears. He was the mouth — a violent, firebomb-obsessed mouth."

Anarchy Now on Pirate Radio: www.radio4all.net/files/franklinhousecollective@gmail.com/3701-1-anarchy_now_5_snitches,_spineless_liberals_and_aftershock.mp3

http://upstartradio.com/Upstart_Radio_Broadcast.html

Quote:
Call for Statements from Anyone Who Knew or Worked with Brandon Darby: Information presented to the judge that demonstrates Darby's history of suggesting, encouraging, or engaging in activities involving explosives, weapons, property destruction or violence is key to the defense of these young men. Please get in touch if you can help.
www.brandondarby.com/call4-statements.html

PIRATENEWS

Monday, November 16, 2009 10:50 PM

How similar is this to Dr Hasan at Ft Hood?

And Operation Northwoods?

And FBI paying Emad Salem $1-million, giving him the bomb to bomb WTC in 93, then giving him immunity for 6 murders as the prosecution's "star witness"...

KWICKO

Tuesday, November 17, 2009 2:13 AM

And he's not the only one in Austin. But I can't say more; it would be telling.

It's all about the shoes. For some damn reason, the feds ALWAYS forget about the shoes.

And too many of them, it seems, hang around MonkeyWrench Books here in Austin, like Brandon Darby.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:36 AM

We don't have any local hangouts, though I wonder how local coffee houses survive and thrive without divine police intervention. Our local coffee importers have a history of cocaine convictions, sheriff convictions, and judicial re-elections.

Every crook in town tries to get immunity as a police informant. CIA alone has 60,000 operatives in USA, especially on college campus. One guy followed me from job to job, after I was an FBI/local informant against a DEA/CIA hitman, that got a bullet hole in my car after I was on TV discussing the murder trial. My "friend" graduated from American University in DC, a notorious CIA front. Said his parents ran a 40-acre pot farm (only crop was pot), and his best friend was son of the local crack kingpin (a conservative state legislator convicted of fatal hit-and-run). Last time I spoke with him was the night my penthouse was nearly torched by towering inferno "accidentally" set by a govt contractor, while I was known to be out of town watching home videos dodging tracers in Nam at a fighter pilot colonel's house. Surreal driving home hearing the police scanner say my house was on fire, then seeing the 40-foot flames and running in the building, like Apocalypse Now.

The Darby case is one more reason I dont trust anybody, especially when a stranger phones wanting to talk for hours about "legal matters". I tell em to get a lawyer, or buy law books (which they never seem to do). Then they get arrested and want me to drive their car, when I have no idea what's in it.

Last time I was in court the judge ordered the prosecutor to "investigate" me for potential arrest, pending for the next 10 months, or years. Id call that a red flag.

Our local "patriot" meetings seem to have a high number of confessed "cops", some actually wearing a badge (with an office literally 3-feet from the US prosecutor's office door, last person he "helped" was gunned down by cops in home invasion, another was on NBC TV's "Captured"). Another cop was a speaker at a meeting, who demanded a "petition" sheet for the Constitution Party, then ADL/SPLC wrote a report calling all CP voters "domestic terrorists". My name was on that petition. Another "Ron Paul" speaker quit his radio career and went into hiding, after being IDed as having 35 Nazi generals in his family tree, and after testifying in the IRS trial that convicted Ed and Dr Brown as "domestic terrorists", who were arrested by undercover "militia".

So I'm an army of one. Sucker for none.

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, November 17, 2009 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
'...Last time I was in court the judge ordered the prosecutor to "investigate" me for potential arrest, pending for the next 10 months, or years. Id call that a red flag.

Our local "patriot" meetings seem to have a high number of confessed "cops", some actually wearing a badge (with an office literally 3-feet from the US prosecutor's office door, last person he "helped" was gunned down by cops in home invasion, another was on NBC TV's "Captured"). Another cop was a speaker at a meeting, who demanded a "petition" sheet for the Constitution Party, then ADL/SPLC wrote a report calling all CP voters "domestic terrorists". My name was on that petition. Another "Ron Paul" speaker quit his radio career and went into hiding, after being IDed as having 35 Nazi generals in his family tree, and after testifying in the IRS trial that convicted Ed and Dr Brown as "domestic terrorists", who were arrested by undercover "militia".

So I'm an army of one. Sucker for none.'

Picked this up , figured it encompasses your outlook , just collatin' data , as they say :

'...In the hope that, somehow, America can still produce the brave sons and
daughters necessary to fight off ever increasing persecution and oppression,
this essay is offered. Frankly, it is too close to call at this point. Those
who love liberty, and believe in freedom enough to fight for it are rare
today, but within the bosom of every once great nation, there remains
secreted, the pearls of former greatness. They are there. I have looked into
their sparking eyes; sharing a brief moment in time with them as I passed
through this life. Relished their friendship, endured their pain, and they
mine. We are a band of brothers, native to the soil gaining strength one
from another as we have rushed head long into a battle that all the weaker,
timid men, say we can not win. Perhaps...but then again, perhaps we can.
It's not over till the last freedom fighter is buried or imprisoned, or the
same happens to those who would destroy their freedom.

Barring any cataclysmic events, the struggle will yet go on for years. The
passage of time will make it clear to even the more slow among us that the
government is the foremost threat to the life, and liberty of the folk. The
government will no doubt make today's oppressiveness look like grade school
work compared to what they have planned in the future. Meanwhile, there are
those of us who continue to hope that somehow the few can do what the many
have not. We are cognizant that before things get better they will certainly
get worse as government shows a willingness to use ever more severe police
state measures against dissidents. This changing situation makes it clear
that those who oppose state repression must be prepared to alter, adapt, and
modify their behavior, strategy, and tactics as circumstances warrant.
Failure to consider new methods and implement them as necessary will make
the government's efforts at suppression uncomplicated. It is the duty of
every patriot to make the tyrant's life miserable. When one fails to do so
he not only fails himself, but his people.

As honest men who have banded together into groups or associations of a
political or religious nature are falsely labeled "domestic terrorists" or
"cultists" and suppressed, it will become necessary to consider other
methods of organization- -or as the case may very well call for:
non-organization. One should keep in mind that it is not in the government's
interest to eliminate all groups. Some few must remain in order to
perpetuate the smoke and mirrors vision for the masses that America is a
"free democratic country" where dissent is allowed. Most organizations,
however, that possess the potential for effective resistance will not be
allowed to continue. Anyone who is so naive as to believe the most powerful
government on earth will not crush any who pose a real threat to that power,
should not be active, but rather, at home studying political history.

The que

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 4:59 PM

Branden Darby: FBI informant who stung RNC 2008 anarchists connected to ‘firebomb plot’ on Brave New Books and “suicided” Palestinian activist Riad Hamad
www.prisonplanet.com/fbi-informant-who-stung-rnc-2008-anarchists-conne
cted-to-%E2%80%98firebomb-plot%E2%80%99-on-brave-new-books-and-%E2%80%9Csuicided%E2%80%9D-palestinian-activist-riad-hamad.html

Quote:
AUSTIN, TEXAS — Remember Riad Hamad, the Palestinian man who’s “suicide” left him at the bottom of Lady Bird Lake in Austin with his mouth gagged and arms duct-taped behind his back? (Kurt Nimmo, Did Palestinian Activist Riad Hamad Commit Suicide? )

According to reports, he was observed at meetings with now-outed FBI informant/provocateur Brandon Darby, who admittedly set up two anarchist/leftists from Austin with “molotov cocktails” who were subsequently arrested for alleged plans to attack police cars outside the RNC 2008 in Minnesota in connection with the “RNC Welcoming Committee.”

Scott Crow claims that in 2006, after Brandon Darby was admittedly an FBI informant, Darby attempted to recruit Crow on a plot to “firebomb” Brave New Books of Austin, Texas. Crow writes:

Quote:
In Darby’s ‘revolutionary rhetoric’ over the years he tried to get numerous people, including myself, to do the things the two men were eventually taken down for. I believe now he tried to set me up in 2006 (after he, according to FBI documents began informing and provoking) to firebomb a bookstore called Brave New Books in Austin. I was NOT interested at all and thought it was stupid. I tried to talk him out of it. The event never happened. He was allowed to change his mind and move on. What if the Feds had raided him at the time?

www.bravenewbookstore.com

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 5:11 PM

...Why is a bookstore called "Brave New Books" a "patriot" bookstore? I'm not arguing that it doesn't exist, I'm just saying that doesn't make any kind of sense. Brave New World was about as anti-capitalism and anti-American as it gets, why would a "patriotic" bookstore name themselves after it? o_0

EDIT: Wha...? Noticed masonic pyramid with eye. Even less sense. What the hell?

POST SHAKESPEARE THE PHRASE IS IRONIC! Good gravy, does NO ONE understand literature anymore? Nineteen Eighty-four and Brave New World are not a fucking TO DO LIST!

KWICKO

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 5:36 PM

Byte: I think you misunderstand the bookstore. They're a "patriot" bookstore in the sense that they actually believe in upholding the U.S. Constitution. That alone is enough, apparently, to get them on an "enemies of the USA" list these days...

By the way, your postscript reminds me of one of my old signature lines:

"My fear is that today's leaders read 1984 and interpret it not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual."

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

KWICKO

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 5:42 PM

By the way, it seems there's a sudden rash of Muslims committing "suicide" after tying their hands and feet first. On just one night recently in Gitmo, THREE alleged "enemy combatants" committed "suicide" on the same night, all in identical fashion, despite having no contact with each other, and despite the fact that one of them was due to be released less than three weeks from the date of his "suicide". Remarkably, all three had managed to stuff rags down their throats past the point at which their gag reflex should have kicked in, and all three also managed to bind hands and feet, THEN climb up on sinks and hang themselves. All on the same night.

http://rawstory.com/2009/12/gitmo-suicides-night-suspicious-report/

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 5:49 PM

Maybe they are using the name ironically then, but still, use of that name doesn't suggest upholding the constitution to me, it suggests all the flaws and faults in the constitution.

I dunno. It's just odd.

It's scary how so many of the proposals some world leaders are making sound like they read them right out of Brave New World, though.

From the wikipedia article:

Quote:
The vast majority of the population is unified under The World State, an eternally peaceful, stable global society in which goods and resources are plentiful (because the population is permanently limited to no more than two billion people) and everyone is happy. Natural reproduction has been done away with and children are decanted and raised in Hatcheries and Conditioning Centres. Society is divided into five castes, created in these centres. The highest caste is allowed to develop naturally while it matures in its "decanting bottle". The lower castes are treated to chemical interference to cause arrested development in intelligence or physical growth.

All members of society are conditioned in childhood to hold the values that the World State idealizes, which improves societal stability and quality of life. Constant consumption is the bedrock of stability for the World State.

According to The World State, sex is a social activity, rather than a means of reproduction, and sexual activity is encouraged from early childhood. The few women who can reproduce are conditioned to take birth control. The maxim "everyone belongs to everyone else" is repeated often, and the idea of a "family" is considered pornographic; sexual competition and emotional, romantic relationships are rendered obsolete because they are no longer needed. Marriage, natural birth, parenthood, and pregnancy are considered too obscene to be mentioned in casual conversation.

Spending time alone is considered an outrageous waste of time and money. Admitting to wanting to be an individual is shocking, horrifying, and embarrassing.

The conditioning system eliminates the need for professional competitiveness; people are literally bred to do their jobs and cannot desire another. There is no competition within castes; each caste member receives the same food, housing, and soma rationing as every other member of that caste. There is no desire to change one's caste.

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 7:20 PM

Well, it's like I say...

Strip all the bullshit off, and it's STILL, even now, the same goddamned feudal dynamic that's been our curse since the dawn of civilization.

And until we cast aside the notion that humans are inherently evil and need to be leashed "for our own good", it's gonna stay that way.

Note that this myth is always perpetuated by those holding the leash out to us like it's some act of benevolence...

Me, now, my first reaction is point and laugh at their hubris - and in extremis, ram it down their throat and hope they choke.

Problem is, folk like me are outnumbered by fools who go crawling and slavering, begging for the leash cause they've been brought up from the very cradle by a society that teaches them to want it, think they need it, at every turn and corner, the perfect trap, as it were.

But there are those who will not bend, who will not break, and though they may *be* broken, instill their resilience in all they touch.

Villains we may be, often enough, but truly I ask you, what is the greater evil ?

-Frem

There always has to be a price.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 7:29 PM

Quote:
Strip all the bullshit off, and it's STILL, even now, the same goddamned feudal dynamic that's been our curse since the dawn of civilization.

Yep, I agree with that.

That's why when people start talking about population control, it's so disturbing, because I then hear other big shot proponents of population control start talking about how some genetic lines should be discontinued... And when I hear them talk about that, I don't see them as trying to limit genetic disease, but rather trying to engineer a caste system like in Brave New World, only without the decanters and the chemical interference in embryonic development. They can do it all by controlling who is breeding with who and how.

KWICKO

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 8:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Well, it's like I say...

Strip all the bullshit off, and it's STILL, even now, the same goddamned feudal dynamic that's been our curse since the dawn of civilization.

And until we cast aside the notion that humans are inherently evil and need to be leashed "for our own good", it's gonna stay that way.

Note that this myth is always perpetuated by those holding the leash out to us like it's some act of benevolence...

Me, now, my first reaction is point and laugh at their hubris - and in extremis, ram it down their throat and hope they choke.

Problem is, folk like me are outnumbered by fools who go crawling and slavering, begging for the leash cause they've been brought up from the very cradle by a society that teaches them to want it, think they need it, at every turn and corner, the perfect trap, as it were.

But there are those who will not bend, who will not break, and though they may *be* broken, instill their resilience in all they touch.

Villains we may be, often enough, but truly I ask you, what is the greater evil ?

-Frem

There always has to be a price.

Which is why, coupled with your recent post on ridicule, I fully intend to die laughing my ass off. I will ridicule TPTB with my very last breath. It's as much respect as they deserve.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 9:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

And until we cast aside the notion that humans are inherently evil and need to be leashed "for our own good", it's gonna stay that way.

I don't think people are inherently evil - but they are inherently selfish. And some ARE evil. I do not believe for a second that Anarchy would lead to anything but chaos and bloodshed.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 10:05 PM

You're conflating the system known as "anarchy" with chaos.

While the common use of the term anarchy implies chaos, any proposed anarchic socio-economic system DOES have structure. They tend to be natural fluid structures, without any inclination towards specific permanent leaders or power groups, but rather formed from dynamic people inter-relationships and cooperation.

Historically, the only bloodshed to be found in an anarchic system comes from outside, when would-be conquerors come in and find their would-be subjects far more resistant than anticipated.

We aren't STUPID, we're not telling people to go out and kill and steal. We just don't agree that you have to have someone telling you what to do at all given times.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 10:30 PM

I know the difference. Doesn't change my view. I don't think we as a species are capable of making Anarchy work on a broad scale.... thus it would lead to chaos. I didn't say they're one and the same, I just feel that one will lead to the other.

You last statement doesn't make sense to me. Im not saying anarchists are encouraging such behavior - but without some system of law set up, there will be plenty who CHOOSE to do so.

Maybe most conflict would come from outside sources - but there's always gonna be an outside source willing to offer up some conflict.

I think the notion that a land without law will be all cooperative and nice is a really great idea, but ridiculously unlikely to be even remotely possible.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 10:52 PM

There are psychopaths and sociopaths, yes, but I think you'd be surprised what a low percentage of the population that represents. And honestly, I don't view those people so much as they are problems, but rather that they need help. Help that we don't really give them today, because there's such a stigma associated with mental illness.

There are also crimes of passion, but part of the argument for a small locally focused community is that when people are more hooked into decisions affecting their lives and are close with members of their community, then crime rate will drop.

The simplest representation of this that you might be familiar with is imagine the relational dynamics one single village in a tribe. "A tribe, viewed historically or developmentally, consists of a social group existing before the development of, or outside of, states. (wikipedia)"

Many of the tribes you might think of have a stratified society led by chieftains, though this isn't always the case. Still, even a tribe with a chieftain or council of elders represents a drastically reduced system of government compared modern systems. Because the community of a tribe is based on relationship and group success/survival, they are very stable, crime is greatly reduced, and any position that could be considered leader-like tends to be more interested in the welfare of those they identify as their people and less corrupt in regards to administering their people. Chieftains who are not, or who are abusive to their people are also more easily deposed.

I'm not precisely advocating tribes and all the closed-off and intolerant connotations that a tribe would suggest as a system of government, but I'm using them as an example of the societal relationship-based phenomena that a socio-economic anarchic system would thrive on.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 10:59 PM

In regards to the psychos and sociopaths - how many does it really take to muck things up.

As for the tribal cultures - sure, they did work to degrees. But many of them ended up warring with each other. Regardless, I consider it moot. Those cultures developed into that, so everyone was on the same page, so to speak. Impossible to do today, the genie is out of the bottle. And human culture hs changed massively since then. I do not think it's even theoretically possible for our society to take on a structure like that anymore.

I mean - I have faith in humanity and all.... but not THAT much.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 11:03 PM

How do you feel about your friends and family? Are you more willing to compromise and cooperate with them, do you have genuine interest in the well being of members of your identified kin-group?

Then you are part of a modern tribe. Not so impossible to establish after all.

The trick is expanding human inter-relationships and empathic response to pre-corporatism levels.

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 2:24 AM

Amen Mikey - without fools to listen to em, without dumbasses willing to pull triggers for em, they got NOTHING.

As for the rest, you *do* realize our current system is not only loaded with the same psychos and sociopaths you're describing, and is not only set up to produce them en masse, it also has this tendency to put them in charge right ?

And for the record, the Catalonians DID make it work, quite well actually, problem inherent to it was having to fight the entire rest of the planet, more or less, as every government shit a brick at the thought of them no longer being necessary and became determined to stomp that out before it caught on, which resulted in them getting mowed under - and the betrayal of the socialists and communists was what destroyed the four pole alliance that was present in the 1920's, with labor/unions breaking off, save for the IWW, during the tenure of that ratbastard Sam Gompers and the rise of corp-friendly unions to "manage" dissent while further exploiting the peons.

Anyhows, that's a very important historical lesson, I do believe, looking at the communists, socialists and fascists ganging up side by side against something they hated more than each other, and reveals the ill intentions of all three systems as being not all that bloody different from each other in execution.

Everyone else just wants to change which hand holds the leash - something I pointed out back in 2006 about the Democrats and Obama, mind you - the Anarchists are the only ones who want to cast it aside...

And the very notion of that scares the absolute crap out of the folks holding it, which oughta tell you something if you just listen.

The answer to sociopaths and pyschos sure as hell isn't creating as many as possible and sticking them in charge, which is what your systems do - so I kinda take issue with holding that one against a system that would not produce so many due to being in general saner and more cooperative.

Unfortunately, the current system, at least here in the states, is DESIGNED to prevent such a thing by mentally and emotionally manipulating children before they're even old enough to realize what's happening to them, often enough wrecking their pysche quite badly in the process.

I stand against that, I always will.

But in order to have a saner society, we need saner PEOPLE, and this system is designed to weed those "undesireables" out as fast and hard as possible, precisely *because* the sociopaths and psychos are in charge of the system.

So pardon me if I take such admonishments from thee in much the same fashion I would take a lecture on the evils of drug addiction from a crack addict.

-Frem

There always has to be a price.

RUE

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 2:46 AM

Sigh ... same stuff over and over through the years. No one listens, and no one learns. Everyone has 'THE' answer to the question no one asks.

This is a waste of time.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:03 AM

Then perhaps we shouldn't defend or attack ideology here, but rather the end product and policy of ideology in the real world.

When you roll your eyes at anarchist arguments and say "not again," that's fine, you have every right to be bored of them. But if someone comes after what I believe, then I'm going to post a few messages defending it. I don't think we can ask anyone here otherwise. Certainly, if conservatives were to attack liberal ideology, then we would indulge liberals the chance to defend their own position, and a number of us anarchists, depending on the type of conservative, might even jump in.

So, anyway. Back on topic?

RUE

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 3:50 AM

To recap:

There never was an anarchist society. No one can point to even minimal evidence of a single one. And there never can never be. It's an oxymoron. Even the MOST primitive society has rules, culture, expectations of behavior - and language, technologies (tools), and the means of making your living (herding, gathering, agriculture etc). All these shape your behavior, your ways of relating to the world, more importantly, your thoughts. Whether these are inculcated gently or brutally they ARE inculcated. No one just gets to be left totally alone. For one thing, you'd end up a stunted imbecile, like those neglected Romanian orphans.

SignyM made the argument MANY times that in a society where 'wealth' (goods, property) is accumulated, there will arise significant differences over time - differences that allow the wealthier to exert the power of the purse.

I'm done here.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 4:02 AM

I think the problem here is different definitions. None of us have argued that societies we call anarchist have no rules. Anarchist is just the only word we have for a society with minimal government, or at least, the word we prefer. Nor are we arguing for people "cutting themselves off," exactly the opposite, actually. A community doing good for each other, in the same manner as a government and a body of laws. But in our consideration, in a less dangerous, corruption prone manner.

Are you sure that this is the final straw for you? You're still welcome here.

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 4:53 AM

Again, severing the legal bonds between people does not and never will mean severing the social ones, but of course, this doesn't gibe with your complete dismissal of the concept, and this is what, the fifteenth time I've said this, only for it to be conveniently ignored when it destroys your arguments ?

And yes, I AM calling you a liar, and we both know it was an intentional lie because we discussed this several times before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_Catalonia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania
And besides
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_communities

Never, huh ?

Mutual consent is the basis for any society, rule of the gun and use of force is the basis for a government.

Not to say they are mutually exclusive, but if you have less of one, you'll have more of the other.

I don't mind discussin it, and can and do acknowledge that we're not "there" yet socially and facing certain roadblocks that prevent development in that direction, as I have pointed out many a time - but I DO mind when someone knowingly and intentionally misrepresents arguments, claims they were not addressed, or in this case resorts to direct falsehood.

That's not debate, that's rhetoric, and it's a type of rhetoric usually associated with folks like PN or hard right crazies - I thought we were mostly above that around here.

-F

PIRATENEWS

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 5:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

...Why is a bookstore called "Brave New Books" a "patriot" bookstore? I'm not arguing that it doesn't exist, I'm just saying that doesn't make any kind of sense. Brave New World was about as anti-capitalism and anti-American as it gets, why would a "patriotic" bookstore name themselves after it?

EDIT: Wha...? Noticed masonic pyramid with eye. Even less sense. What the hell?

Brave New World was a British whistleblower book about the British fascist New World Order. This is a whistleblower store about the current fascist New World Order. Aldous Huxley's brother ran UNESCO for Nazi United Nations. 1984 was also by a British whistleblower at MI6, warning about the fascist British Empire dictatorship taking over the planet.

Illuminati (USA) pyramid logo with Eye of Lucifer capstone is upside down, signifyin defeat of the New World Odor.

BRAVE = brave to fight the NWO
NEW = uncensored books
BOOKS = books

That's why FBI wanted its informant/provocateur to terrorize that establishment.

Real World Scientific Dictatorship: Aldous Huxley at Berkley University March 20, 1962
www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/articles/Aldous_Huxley--The_Ultimate_R
evolution--Berkeley_Part1.mp3
www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/articles/Aldous_Huxley--The_Ultimate_R
evolution--Berkeley_Part2.mp3
http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/VideoTest/hux1.ram
http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/VideoTest/hux2.ram
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldous_Huxley

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 5:46 AM

Hmm. Maybe Rue was more provoked here about my comments about population control, which we don't see eye-to-eye on.

Perhaps my arguments about my fears for population control are falsely attributing beliefs, methods, and purposes to proponents of population control that they don't agree with. And perhaps Rue's counter argument was showing that the same thing could be done with Anarchy.

I didn't intend to accuse anyone of anything.

Both my fears about population control, and Rue's fears about the potential unsustainability and uncontrollability of anarchism are at least genuine, heart-felt concerns.

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 7:02 AM

Point taken - but really, don't y'all have like, better things to DO with your holidays than arguing with some stubborn old jackass on an internet message board ?

I'm only here right now as something to do in between walkin rounds in the freezing, wind driven slush, it's nasty out there, and the only family I got is eight hundred miles away and got enough on their own plate that I dun wanna inflict my presence on em, long story, I ain't relatin it.

Anyhows, seriously, see to your families and friends, do something HAPPY, willya ?

Just remember two things.

What is true for one is never truth for all, and you cannot shake hands with a balled fist.

Go in peace.

-F

RUE

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 4:08 PM

"Anarchist is just the only word we have for a society with minimal government, or at least, the word we prefer"

Again, the argument has been made many MANY MANY times already that government is not the ONLY exercise of power by one group over another. Any notion that if your reduce government you take care is the problem is naive, at best. (I will not post what I really think it is, but it is something you would take serious offense to.)

NO ONE had offered a cogent argument as to HOW people or groups who accumulate wealth, goods and resources far above the norm can be prevented from exercising their power - the POWER of life and death - over others. NO ONE. I have yet to read it.

The ONLY way that can be done is by combined social effort - called - guess what - government.

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Silence is consent.

RUE

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 4:14 PM

Frem

Do you even READ your own cites ? They ALL have laws, they ALL have government. Oh, and they ALL prevent the accumulation of individual wealth. Jeeeeeeze.

So dooood - WHO is the liar ?

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Silence is consent.

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 4:25 PM

Quote:
NO ONE had offered a cogent argument as to HOW people or groups who accumulate wealth, goods and resources far above the norm can be prevented from exercising their power - the POWER of life and death - over others. NO ONE. I have yet to read it.

The ONLY way that can be done is by combined social effort - called - guess what - government.

Generally speaking, if people maintain private possessions, but have communal resources, as in a tribe, it becomes more difficult to accumulate those resources because they're already tied up. They have to then be taken by force. Taking sustenance from another tribe member by force is generally discouraged by the tribal system, because in this sense you are taking food selfishly from your own kin-group. Even corporate bastards don't steal food from their children.

Now, you're right, it could still happen. The best historical examples I can think of are the tribes of West coast Africa, who sold each other into slavery and had so much gold they painted themselves with the dust. The chiefs of the tribe would sometimes lord over the other tribe members, and take multiple wives, and leave the tribe deprived.

And so in this case, as in any OTHER case, even with a government, is to strip the chief/corrupt corporate executive of their power. Unfortunately, in our system when corrupt executives are brought to justice or when they are exposed and step down from their positions, assuming their accounts aren't frozen or they haven't gone bankrupt by their own misdeeds, these people tend to retain their money, and if not money, then the connections to build themselves back up. Look at the con artist father-in-law of Chelsea Clinton.

In a tribal system, well, people who want their resources back are no longer hamstringed by laws that protect the corrupt chief/corporate executive. *evil grin* They get their resources back.

But, the less violent method, is, of course, to go somewhere else and start a new tribal group, which is much easier if local governments are small instead of national.

RUE

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 4:37 PM

The point is we the people could actually take control of our government and make it work FOR US - IF WE WANTED TO. It wouldn't happen on the first election cycle, and maybe not even on the 5th, but it would inevitably happen.

If you do not accept that society has the power to create itself AND MAINTAIN ITSELF in its preferred image, simply by the inevitable accumulation of differences in power and the lack of social tools to deal with it, you are doomed to see your 'anarchist' society transform into something you will not like. Just like those Afircan tribes where differences in wealth led to death for the powerless.

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Silence is consent.

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 4:50 PM

Ehm... Well, true, theoretically anyone could make ANY system work for the public, for a while, until corruption inevitably happens (and it happens in anarchy too, see above!).

But this current system seems built towards helping those same people accumulate differences in power, resources, and tools. The system itself, as I see it, is a tool being used against us, because we have to vote for representatives. And these representatives seem by and large corrupt, and the system around them seems to force even ones who start honest to use corrupt means to maintain their power and get what they want.

Reform couldn't therefore be instigated by the people, because the representatives are insulated from the people by the parties and their own wealth. In order to create reform, you'd have to clear out ALL of the old and replace them with the new at the exact same time (so that more experienced, more corrupt members can't start to influence the new members), and the two year cycles prevents that. Or, the reform would have to happen from within, which would obviously be crushed.

Or we wait for the inevitable collapse, delaying it as long as possible in the hopes of hurting the fewest amounts of people when it happens.

Why make it hard on ourselves, and rebuild the same flawed system, the same government controls that can and most likely will be used against us? Why not establish a system with limited government, so that public control can be more easily asserted over it if it goes astray and becomes selfish and aristocratic?

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, December 9, 2009 8:40 PM

I don't buy the concept that the answer to corrupt and abusive government is more government, that's madness.

Speaking of that resources in one pile argument, which I found very interesting and if we're to discuss it I'd like the study information again cause it has a lot of bearing on this.

WHO put the resources in one pile in the first place ?
The humans, acting in the role of government, trying to "help".

I find it ironic that no matter how I point out the differences between social rules, enforced by peoples better nature and own natural cooperation, and laws enforces at the point of a gun, I get ignored about this cause it's inconvient to those arguing against.

I know I am wasting my time, but it's mine to waste.

You need to think about WHY you obey certain "rules".

Do you obey *only* because it is the law, *only* because there is threat of violence and incarceration, if there even is, cause many SOCIAL "rules" we follow do NOT, in fact have the force of law behind them.

Or do you obey to help things work smoothly for others, or because you mutually agree with the rule ?

A good case of this type of natural cooperation, seen often enough here in Michigan - the construction traffic jam, folks often enough try to get over into the lane early, and other folks try to let them in, making their own personal risk assessments and cooperating, even without communication, in order to try to make things work smoothly for everyone - that has shit to do with laws and everything to do with the better parts of human nature.

And then you have the tiny percentage of assholes who knowingly charge down and try to cut in at the last minute, who are the primary cause of the slowdown and do jam up the works disproportionately, sure.

And at least around here, folks start doing that, other folk put their car half across the lane to BLOCK them, taking a small amount of personal risk unto themselves to discourage that asshole behavior.

All without even direct communication.
No, it's not perfect, but nothin never is, and people as a rule are better natured than folks wishing to impose rules want us to believe.

And let's talk about that for a minute.

Ideally, when some CEO scams his customers, he'd pay for it, but that isn't what happens, what happens is that they usually get fined less than a tenth of the money they raked in with a little tap on the wrist as the very law supposed to protect us from them, protects them from out retaliation, either by legal action or less pleasant means - ask any union organiser with a knowledge of history which side the law is on, if you want a long lecture on that kind of thing.

As for taking control of it, despite it being a corrupt system by it's very nature, I happen to be almost notorious for hitting a target on multiple fronts - you might have missed it, but my encouragement of folk to start with politics on a local level is intended to do exactly this, as well as discouraging them to trust in a system that isn't functioning properly, because while I'd damn sure like to see much of that system dismantled, at the very LEAST as a bare minimum I want what I fucking pay for, I had a discussion with Wulf about where your property taxes go, and why many of those causes are actually THINGS YOU WOULD WANT, like road repair, waste collection, things you would probably desire to pay as a collective bargaining to get a better rate than procuring individually.

But I damned sure have issues with that money being used to forment terrorism against me (See Also: Hal Turner, Emad Salem, etc) pick fights with other countries for stupid reasons, or handed over to corporations I boycotted for the damn reason of NOT wanting them to have any of my money!
I don't buy overpriced "(north)american made" (out of chinese parts) cars for some pretty good reasons, and those auto bailouts are the equivalent of having a gun stuck in my face and being forced to buy one of their crummy cars, and I DON'T EVEN GET THE CAR !

Seriously, that's bullshit, innit ?

And yes, we need t