5 Reasons it sucks being a Joss Whedon fan

POSTED BY: blackbeanie
UPDATED: Saturday, December 27, 2025 05:30
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BLACKBEANIE

Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:08 PM

Found it on Cracked.com...

http://www.cracked.com/article/166_5-reasons-it-sucks-being-joss-whedo
n-fan/

http://www.myspace.com/black_beanie

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Thursday, October 15, 2009 3:36 PM

That is a pretty fierce piece, with more than a grain of truth in it, from an opposition point of view.

Doesn't mean we don't like Joss' stuff, tho'...

BYTEMITE

Thursday, October 15, 2009 3:36 PM

Ouch. Someone linked to it on Whedonesque.

*Bombs drop and explode*

XD

As for the article itself... Well, some things ring a bit uncomfortably true.

The criticism on feminism IS accurate, even though I've taken the devil's advocate other places on the board and pointed out how some of the exploitation is supposed to make the viewer feel uncomfortable. But yes, Penny is the woman in the refrigerator, Inara's sponge-bathing scene in Firefly was (according to him) his most carefully filmed scene in the entire series (three TIMES), and Whedon's ass-kicking front-line ladies are pure male fantasy.

On the other hand, even though female leads are becoming increasingly common, most shows still focus on the male character, and the females exist solely to be in a relationship with them. So long as less than 30% of screenwriters are women, this is going to happen, and social stereotypes and tropes or going to exist for a long time even when the numbers equalize. Pirate News posted an article recently that I tore apart, but there was a good point in it: "some girls still want a Mr. Darcy." These ideas and fixations women have about true love and romance have been around for a long time, and it'll be a while longer before we can scrub out the idea of someone taking care of us. It may be "calling Bill Clinton the first black President," as the article says, but I'll take whatever strong female characters I can get at this point.

Also, I like that Whedon kills people. Okay, it's not popular, and he kills likeable characters. But does it have an emotional impact? Um, yes? And that's the POINT. Would you like his shows as much if they didn't grab you emotionally and sometimes skewer those trembling little heartstrings?

Speaking of which. I really haven't been around for much of Whedon apart from Serenity, Dr. Horrible, and Dollhouse. But from what I've seen, though, no one really seems to be defending Dollhouse. Some of us like it, some even hoped for the longest time that yes, it was Fox, and not the premise, but at least on this board it looks like more people DON'T like it than do.

Broad generalizations: guilty. And the article really is quite hostile. I'm sorry, man, but clearly you hate not only most of Whedon's stuff, but also all of Joss Whedon's fans. As such, the title of the article is misleading. It was obviously supposed to be "why JOSS WHEDON sucks" before someone realized holy crap, the flames.

DEWRASTLER

Thursday, October 15, 2009 5:24 PM

Here's the way I see it:

5) In real life, people die. You can't just walk through a dangerous situation and everyone lives, or get brought back to life, or whatever. I think by not killing people in such situations you actually make it less realistic. This was one of my big problems with the series finale of

Select to view spoiler:

Stargate Atlantis when Ronan was brought back to life on the hive ship. Completely ruined the fact that he gave his life for others

4) Actually, and call me dense if you must, if no one had told me Joss was a feminist I probably wouldn't know. I don't think he writes feminist characters, I think he writes real characters who just happen to be women. Real, as in fully realized. That's both sides of the pendulum. Good/Bad. Happy/Sad.

3) I'm sure there is both sides to this, but I will never claim that everything Joss does is right and perfect

2)Same as above

1) I never try to force Joss's material on anyone, so this is where I got a little offended. Joss's work is on of the many things I enjoy, but I don't demand that all people enjoy it, and I don't think anyone else here does either. I will show his work to my friends because I think they might like it, and if they don't, that's fine. Now if we, the people who want to see more thing from Joss, come out and say that we want a Serenity 2 for example. What's wrong with that? I'm not saying everyone should want and enjoy it, I'm saying me and other fans of this particular work do. How is that different from any other fanbase? Check out the Spider-Man boards after One More Day was released. They were angry over there too. It happens, get over it.

And for what I hope is the last time, I'm going to say this again. I do not blame FOX for anything, and IMHO, any hatred for them should be let go. Most of what I watch is on FOX, and they are simply trying to run a business. They make decisions for the network as a whole, and those are hard decisions. Looking at just Firefly, I would have done something differently. But that is with hindsight and not looking at the whole picture. Am I glad they gave Dollhouse a season 2? Yes, because I like to see Joss and company working. Will I blame FOX if it fails? No, because not only did FOX greenlight the project, they gave them a season 2. And for everyone who talks about the Friday night slot here's two things to think about: DVR numbers are looked at now, so that's not an excuse. Also, there have been numerous successful shows on Friday night. Right now, those are on other networks. There was a time that was X-files, on FOX. It happens.

________________________________
People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do

ZEEK

Thursday, October 15, 2009 6:33 PM

This author clearly wrote the title for the article and then went off on a tangent. He seems to hate Joss and everything he stands for. How is that a problem for his fans?

I totally disagree that Joss fans bow down and worship everything he does. Dollhouse is the most obvious example. There have been threads about everyone's least favorite episode of different Joss series. We don't worship everything he ties his name to.

The author can choose to hate Joss and his fans all he wants. That's his right.

STORYMARK

Thursday, October 15, 2009 7:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dewrastler:

1) I never try to force Joss's material on anyone, so this is where I got a little offended.

Neither do I, but some do. I've tried to introduce Firefly to people, and they flat-out refuse because they've had a bad experience with an over-zealous Browncoat. Browncoats are still considered a bunch of rabid OCD freaks on most film sites, and if you look back at some of the insane hyperbole folks have used to promote the show, it's easy to see why.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

TUJIAOZUO

Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:15 PM

Wow, someone's bitter.

I always hate it when someone paints a broad generalization of fans. The fact is often that there is only a small number of sheer assholes/purists/ZOMG!!!1JossIsAGodAndFanFicIsMyLife!, but they get the most attention and give everyone else a bad rep.

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

STORYMARK

Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:26 PM

Yeah, but with Browncoats, it may be a small faction of over-zealous nuts - but they are HARD CORE about being obnoxious. If I hadn't already been a fan, they might have scared me off.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

ASARIAN

Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

The criticism on feminism IS accurate...

It IS.

As irony would have it, I just got quite a chuckle out of realizing Joss only very recently poked a little fun with his own feminism on last week's episode of Dollhouse, as he had the good Professor trying Kiki to sleep with him. As his means of seduction/persuasion he's explaining Chaucer's The Wife of Bath to her:

KIKI: You're saying she uses the sex to get what she wants?
PROF: She doesn't allow men to define here. She knows she's the one with the real power. (...) She can get what she wants. She knows how to get it.

It's a faux sense of empowerment. Kiki, like Chaucer's Alison, is duped into believing she's the one in control (getting men to do what she wants); whereas, in reality, it's the men that manipulate her into doing what they want from her (the sex; which, if the women really had the power, is a step they could forego to begin with). Whedon's female leads are a lot like what the Prof is trying to peddle to Kiki: they're generally hot, bendy, nubile ass-kickers that can wrap their legs around you like... whatever floats your fantasy. All in that selfsame name of empowerment, of course. But, in the end, they're just in the same boat as Kiki and Alison.

Why's everyone making a fuss, though? Perhaps 'Joss' and 'feminism' have been mentioned in the same sentence, once or twice. But a man who can use his own show to wink at his own alleged feminism is really okay in my book.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

TUJIAOZUO

Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Yeah, but with Browncoats, it may be a small faction of over-zealous nuts - but they are HARD CORE about being obnoxious. If I hadn't already been a fan, they might have scared me off.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

I've been a member of a few obnoxious fandoms, and have had my brush with some truly horrible fans, but I guess I've just never met a HARDCORE obnoxious as hell Firefly fan (though I have heard of it). Either that or I did, but they paled in comparison to some of the other non compos mentis fans I know.

Of course now that I said this, I will probably meet a super obnoxious browncoat that the next Con I attend.

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

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