End Dollhouse campaign!

POSTED BY: Calhoun
UPDATED: Monday, January 25, 2010 14:29
VIEWED: 16415
PAGE 4 of 7

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Originally posted by khambilo:

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Well, one group wants Joss to keep doing the thing they already like - and that HE seems to be enjoying (or he wouldn't have made concessions for renewal). So some are wanting Joss to stop doing what HE likes to do what they want.

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I think you hit the nail on the head there.

And besides the aforementioned Shepherds Tale book and Dr. Horrible 2, Joss has his plate full with a whole host of other things

-Cabin in the Woods - Writer and Producer
-Buffy Season 8 - and I believe he recently announced season 9 as well, and because of that it wouldn't be too much to assume that Angel will get the same treatment
-Goners - a sort of mystery project - IMDB lists him as the writer and director
-Ripper - it's been rumored for forever, but IMDB is still listing it. I'm not sure how reliable that is, but I wouldn't count it out either.

In addition to these, it's been mentioned that Joss has had planned to do a short film project that is currently on the backburner, but not necessarily outed and he's also been affiliated with Marvel lately. He wrote an X-men comic and is also tied with another Marvel comic series Runaways.
( http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/07/07/joss-whedons-hollywood-status-upd
ate-horror-fantasy-goners-cabin-in-the-woods-and-more/)

To say that Joss's time is being tied up solely in Dollhouse is clearly false.

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AND he is running around Hollywood trying to raise money for his own micro-studio to produce more things like Dr. Horrible- that in itself is a full time job!

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You're right. Go Dollhouse. It's a really good show. Joss is master of all of hollywood. All other opinions are incorrect.

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No one has argued any of those points. In fact, most of those points can not really be argued because they are opinions.

We have only disagreed that Joss "should quit Dollhouse to work on better shows." Which I believe was the premise at the start of this thread...?

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Originally posted by Storymark:

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Originally posted by Zeek:
The reason he's doing Dollhouse is because he has to fit the network's schedule. There's no task master on Dr. Horrible 2 so it gets shoved to the back of the list. I don't think that's what Joss wants.

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...uh... what? The only reason he's making the show it to fit their schedule....? What kind of asinine logic is that? Fox isn't holding a gun to his head to make Dollhouse.

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Well, in a certain sense, they are. Whedon presumably has a contract with the network to do X amount of work for DOLLHOUSE, assuming DOLLHOUSE continues. If he were to fail to live up to his end of the deal, there would be financial (and likely professional) ramifications.

I think what Zeek is getting at, basically, if that Joss has to fulfil his commitment to his JOB (working on DOLLHOUSE) before he can spend time on PERSONAL PROJECTS (such as DR. HORRIBLE 2), for which he might have more passion.

Nothing asinine about that viewpoint. That's the problem most of us have to face: I'd RATHER spend my day writing virtual Firefly episodes than working at a real job, but I also have a powerful need to eat. Joss, however, is theoretically in a position where if his "job" ended (ie, DOLLHOUSE were cancelled), he's got enough clout and money that he'd be just fine without it and could move on to other projects.

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If he didn't WANT to do it, he could have:

A) Not pitched it.

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He did not initially want to pitch it. He said, in fact, that he didn't want to work on TV again, and specifically didn't want to work for FOX.

Dushku, who has a development deal with the network, begged him to do the show when he came up with the concept on the spur of the moment.

It's true that he could simply have refused, but our boy Joss does seem to love a challenge. More importantly, though, the story of the show's inception pretty clearly demonstrates that Joss's heart wasn't necessarily in DOLLHOUSE the way it was with other shows right from the very start.

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B) Refused to lower the costs after season 1, and let it be canceled

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Again, your statement is essentially true. However, in for penny, in for pound. Once Joss attached himself to DOLLHOUSE, he can't ALLOW it to fail.

It's pretty clear from interviews and commentary that Joss often takes a subversive--if not outright adversarial--approach to dealing with the networks.

If Joss were to out-and-out refuse to deal with the networks and just walk away, there would likely be some longterm ramifications for his career. A reputation as brilliant but difficult is very different from a rep as a guy who refuses to compromise at all.

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C) Work on other projects concurrently (which he has done many times before)

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And he has, in interviews, admitted the failure inherent to that. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure he never said he'd do that again (of course, he also said he'd never work with FOX again...).

His situation now, however, is very different than when he was working on BUFFY, ANGEL, and FIREFLY. Back around the turn of the century, Whedon was "empire building." He was expanding outward, on the rise, starting with Buffy and moving on to other projects.

More importantly, he didn't broaden his horizons until his current project could run on its own. DOLLHOUSE, under constant thread of cancellation, is nowhere close to that. DOLLHOUSE barely floats WITH Joss. It would surely sink without him.

You know, I've always found the year that Joss worked on three series to be quite intriguing. You can actually watch the quality move from show to show as Joss's focus changed throughout the course of the year.

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D) Let it continue with a different show-runner.
F) Quit, and let FOX figure it out

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Again, these are choices that are professionally unpalatable. Either could be essentially career suicide, at least in the short term.

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He did none of those, and CHOSE to keep doing the show.

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Indeed. Because it'

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Originally posted by Zeek:
You're right. Go Dollhouse. It's a really good show. Joss is master of all of hollywood. All other opinions are incorrect.

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Taking your toys and going home, because people won't jump on your bandwagon? Feel free. Maybe your mommie will make ya some cookies to cheer you up.

Oh, and I never said it was a great show - I specifically said I wasn't a fan - I was merely pointing out that just because some don't like it, it doesn't mean no-one does, nor does it mean poor wittle Joss is locked in a dungeon forced to make the show. Sorry that's so upsetting to you... wait, no, I'm not.

Oh, and no one said other opinions were incorrect - but when you express your opinion, and insist it's fact - be ready to treated like a tool.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Now, I'm not a Dollhouse fan myself, but I don't think anyone has the right to say who is or isn't a "true" Joss fan. Just kind-of a dick statement to make.

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All my friends hate the show too(all of them fans of Buffy and Firefly) so from my perspective, I think my statement was accurate.
I guess being a true Joss Whedon fan would mean liking the piece of shit show Dollhouse also, So I guess I'm not one either.

Cheeers.

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...oh, how fun, more "true fan" talk.

Personally, from my point of view, being a "true fan" means you realize and accept this simple fact:

JOSS WHEDON IS NOT YOUR BITCH.

You can like the show or you can hate the show, and you can express that in any way you like. But wanting everyone who works on it to suddenly be unemployed because you don't like it and so Joss can work on what you want... well, quite frankly, you're acting like spoiled little children with entitlement issues. And that, right there, is quite possibly the number one reason why fandoms turn from awesome to suck.

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Originally posted by OPPYH:

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Now, I'm not a Dollhouse fan myself, but I don't think anyone has the right to say who is or isn't a "true" Joss fan. Just kind-of a dick statement to make.

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All my friends hate the show too(all of them fans of Buffy and Firefly) so from my perspective, I think my statement was accurate.
I guess being a true Joss Whedon fan would mean liking the piece of shit show Dollhouse also, So I guess I'm not one either.

Cheeers.

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Well, if your friends hate it, it must mean you are the sole authority on what makes a true fan - or your an ass, one of those two.

I'm not sure if there is any such thing as a "true fan", but if there is, I'm pretty sure it's not someone who is a big enough douchebag to think they can declare who is and isn't one, just because they have a differing opinion.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Maybe others have said this, but I haven't read the entire thread. I tried to like Dollhouse; it left me cold. Haven't bothered since. On the other hand, I wish all who enjoy it a long run; it's not my place to force my taste on others.

While, yes, I would like to see Joss working on something I could appreciate, it's not my place to bitch and moan about what he DOES choose to work on.

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Finally, for all of Joss Whedon's feminist cred, his concepts easily fall into exploitation rather than empowerment. He often falls into the trap of trying to put the women on a pedestal, rather than portraying them as real in all their strengths and flaws. And that is a form of marginalization (read Simone de Beauvoir). Dollhouse's treatment of its women is very shallow, unlike, say, Dark Angel.
The final season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer almost made me gag, the way Buffy turned into a selfish, deluded, stupid, self-righteous bitch. This is why Faith and Willow were always so much more interesting than Buffy.

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Found that very interesting--in that I never liked Buffy (because I thought those adjectives described her perfectly for eight years), but loved the show. And I admit all of the female characters in Firefly might well come under the same description: pedastalled.

________________________
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