Hey Canucks...what about your oilsands?

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Sunday, October 11, 2009 21:24
VIEWED: 4250
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NIKI2

Thursday, October 8, 2009 7:29 PM

Hey Canucks out there, what have you to say for yourselves?

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Have you heard? Have you taken even a cursory peek lately into the oversized eco nightmare that is Canada's monstrous, pollutive, disgusting hellholes of rapacious greed and pollution and destruction and sheer capitalistic joy?

Oilsands emit more than entire countries: report
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/09/13/greenpeace-oilsands.html
Alberta's oilsands produce more greenhouse gas emissions than some European countries right now and will produce more than all of the world's volcanoes in just 11 years if the pace of development continues, a new report says.

"Dirty: How the Tarsands Are Fuelling Global Climate Change" is set to be released Monday.

Greenpeace commissioned award-winning author Andrew Nikiforuk, a business and environmental reporter, to write the report.

"Nobody in Canada wants to talk about the scale issues," he said in an interview Saturday.

"The emissions are bigger than Estonia and Lithuania right now and in 2020 will be larger than countries like Belgium, Austria, Ireland and Denmark."

The report documents the "real" cost of the oilsands, which Nikiforuk said are the world's largest energy project.

"The major energy projects in the Middle East,... they don't come anywhere near. None of them approach the scale and capital intensity of the oilsands."

The report says almost $200 billion has been or will be invested in the projects in northern Alberta, including not only the oilsands but pipelines, refinery expansions and other associated infrastructure.

It adds that the liabilities are a nearly threefold increase in greenhouse gas emissions, enormous amounts of natural gas used and wasted to produce synthetic oil from bitumen — which consists of tarry pitch, or asphalt — and the "economic nightmare" of carbon capture and storage, a technology that has yet to be developed.

Unproven technology

On Friday, the premiers of British Columbia, Alberta and Saskatchewan inked a deal pledging to work together on carbon capture and storage technology. In June, the Alberta government announced it was giving $2 billion to seven companies to fund three pilot projects.

But Nikiforuk points out that there is no commercial carbon capture and storage facility operating anywhere in the world.

The technology is being designed mainly for the coal-fired electricity plants operating in Alberta to fuel the energy-hungry oilsands and associated projects.

This is how it's envisioned to work: Carbon dioxide is captured from smokestacks and the gas is compressed and transported to be stored underground. The waste must be monitored for an undetermined amount of time, possibly for thousands of years, at an uncalculated cost to ensure that no leaks occur, the report says.

"Most governments are not good at monitoring things for five years, let alone a thousand years," Nikiforuk said.

He also said the money to pay for carbon capture and storage will come out of Canadian taxpayers' wallets.

"The estimate from the Carbon Capture Council in Alberta is that we're going to need $2 billion to $3 billion a year for the next 20 years. That's extraordinary, that's taxpayers' money.... Any fiscal conservative in the country should look at this and just be absolutely alarmed."

Nikiforuk compared it with the fledgling nuclear power industry nearly 50 years ago.

"It was going to be too cheap to meter, then it became too expensive to build, and I think carbon capture and storage will probably leave the same kind of legacy."

By the numbers: http://www.cbc.ca/edmonton/features/dirtyoil/numbers.html

Take a look: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2009/10/07/notes10070
9.DTL&nl=fix

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They are, you might say, the finest example we currently have of a massive, soulless industry and a major first-world government shoving a giant middle finger in the face of all notions of progress and environmental integrity. They'

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NIKI2

Thursday, October 8, 2009 7:59 PM

Hey, I really wanna know what you guys got to say for yourownselves...I'm SURE we have a couple of Northerners here, how come you're not speaking up?

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, October 8, 2009 8:08 PM

I have worked up at Fort Mac, and have built equipment for working up there...

I think our government ( who won't do this because they seem to think it is our responsibility to supply oil to the US ) should put a construction freeze on new projects in this area. Their own estimates say that within 10 years new technology will be developed that would clean up the extraction process considerably. The oil has been there a long time, another ten or twenty years before we get it out isn't a problem to me, and hell... prices will likely be higher then anyway.

But Niki2, you don't like the situation... get your government to not buy oil from us. Until we have an election and possibly after we are stck with Harper and the conservatives... and they will never change their tune on this.

" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

NIKI2

Thursday, October 8, 2009 8:13 PM

Yup, I agree. If it weren't for our rapacious appetite for oil and oil-based products...but that's no excuse for your cow-towing to it--and making a hefty profit doing so, by the way, which is REALLY what's at the bottom of all such things.

Down here, at least around me, we get this impression of Canada as very forward-thinking, clean, decent, etc., while America is a filthy, environmentally-destitute capitalist system. This says that's a false impression. I got as much right to complain about it as anyone...AND to bring it to people's attention, don't I?

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, October 8, 2009 8:33 PM

What folks don't realize about the whole issue is that most plastic is based on petroleum, and a shortage of THAT will hit our society faster and harder (and sooner!) than a shortage of motor fuel would.

-F

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, October 8, 2009 8:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Yup, I agree. If it weren't for our rapacious appetite for oil and oil-based products...but that's no excuse for your cow-towing to it--and making a hefty profit doing so, by the way, which is REALLY what's at the bottom of all such things.

Down here, at least around me, we get this impression of Canada as very forward-thinking, clean, decent, etc., while America is a filthy, environmentally-destitute capitalist system. This says that's a false impression. I got as much right to complain about it as anyone...AND to bring it to people's attention, don't I?

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

part of the problem is our economy was a little too connected to yours... so when yours tanked...

and during times of poor economic performance it is hard to step back and make some of these changes...

On top of that we have had Clinton, Bush, and others up here telling everyone that this project is vital to the security of North America. So much bullshit in my opinion, but there it is.

more reading

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/20/60minutes/main1225184.shtml?
tag=contentMain;contentBody

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/07/business/global/07iht-green07.html

another proposal is the construction of a nuclear reactor to replace the use of natural gas in the separation process, this has had many opponents... I'm not sure where it is at

" I got as much right to complain about it as anyone...AND to bring it to people's attention, don't I? "

yes you do, but to make your complaint effective I would suggest Obama would be the one to take action...

http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=610810

He started that way, and then has been quiet on that front now for some time... perhaps it is economic unfeasible for the US not to buy that oil at the moment.

" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, October 8, 2009 8:58 PM

and politicians... they emit more gas than normal people...

I think we should just kill them and reorganize...

NIKI2

Thursday, October 8, 2009 9:17 PM

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What folks don't realize about the whole issue is that most plastic is based on petroleum, and a shortage of THAT will hit our society faster and harder (and sooner!) than a shortage of motor fuel would.

Y'know, Frem...I made that same argument recently and was told that there are other processes for making plastic these days that are used and will be used more when petroleum isn't available. Dunno if that's true or not, have to look it up.

Also, petroleum is in our lives in SO many ways, we'll be in a real mess when it runs out!!!

Sigh...okay, Gino, all good points, unfortunately. But still, in my opinion, they're "reasons" not "excuses". As to Obama, again I say it's only been nine months, that may not be the highest thing on his list of priorities at the moment. I'll certainly make my voice heard on it, anyway.

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and politicians... they emit more gas than normal people...I think we should just kill them and reorganize...

Yes, indeedee, Wulf, there's another intelligent, intellectual comment pertaining to the subject at hand.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

DREAMTROVE

Friday, October 9, 2009 1:34 AM

There is no oil shortage. American politicians talk about foreign oil because they are in the hands of foreign oil, which wants the price high.

GINOBIFFARONI

Friday, October 9, 2009 4:08 AM

" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

SOCKPUPPET

Friday, October 9, 2009 9:12 AM

Oil is just a commodity. The price goes up and down like any other, the only difference is that oil has a really good publicity agent.

MEATPUPPET42

Sunday, October 11, 2009 10:57 AM

Sad that you would use this to point your finger and say there is the bad guy. The USA is a much bigger polluter than most countries in the world. BTW the oceans have been getting colder for the past few years explain global warming to me.

That's why I don't kiss them on the mouth.

ANTHONYT

Sunday, October 11, 2009 5:48 PM

Hello,

How long will it take to extract all the oil out of the oilsands?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

DREAMTROVE

Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:59 PM

Canada is home to a large portion of the Taiga forest, one of the world's largest ecosystems. The Taiga consumes more co2 each year by itself that all human efforts combined can create.

There is no oil crisis, but before attacking the oil sands, I'd want an environmental impact statement on that. Canada is sitting on far more oil than the middle east, but the local US puppet govt. just doesn't want to collect it, because then their controllers wouldn't make money.

MEATPUPPET42

Sunday, October 11, 2009 9:24 PM

I have been told there is more than all of saudi Arabia. But it's trapped in sand and expensive to remove. Technology is not there yet.
Also have been told it is dirty process but only 10% more than conventional method.

I love it, it's like wiping your ass with silk