Some choose to call me a racist.

POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 03:39
VIEWED: 9268
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WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:43 PM

I have had a similar conversation with my wife on this subject.

No. I am not a racist. But I will say this... I choose not to allow those who are evil to overrun my country.

Take of THAT how you will.

ETA: Think of the Enterprise as America, and the little towns within.

But I will not, give up another town to the horror that I've seen.

THIS FAR, NO FURTHER.

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:03 PM

Don't let it worry you an iota...Playing that particular card is fashionable now , even against black folk who disagree with the herd...

"...I traveled on the Tea Party Express tour bus as a singer/songwriter, entertainer and spokesperson; 16 states, 34 rallies in two weeks. I experienced vicious racial verbal attacks, not from the tea party protesters. The racial hate expressed against me all came from the left, people who support President Obama's radical socialist agenda. ... These racists are outraged by my opening lines I boldly proclaimed at each rally. 'Hello my fellow patriots! I am NOT an African-American! I am Lloyd Marcus, AMERICAN!' ... The tea party audience's passionate response to my proclamation was a surprise to me. I did not know so many Americans disapproved of hyphenating pushed on us via political correctness. ... Liberals' response to my YouTube videos, columns and performances on the Tea Party Express have been extremely racist, vicious and hate-filled. In their incredible arrogance, they vilify me for loving my country and not viewing myself as a victim of white America. In the sick minds of liberals, as a black man in America, I must support President Obama regardless of his policies. I must resent white America. I must feel entitled to the earnings of other Americans. My belief that my success or failure is totally in the hands of myself and my God is anathema to them. As to the claim that the tea party protesters are racist, they are not. Quite the opposite. At every rally, with thousands in attendance, I was overwhelmingly showered with affection and thanks for standing up for America. ... These protesters are not racist. They are decent hard working ordinary Americans who love their country and disapprove of the radical changes planned by the Obama administration."

--singer, songwriter and columnist Lloyd Marcus

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:08 PM

Are you being snarky? Looking to me to be foolish that I feel this way?

Is it wrong that I agree with what was now written?

I hope not. :(

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Are you being snarky? Looking to me to be foolish that I feel this way?

Is it wrong that I agree with what was now written?

I hope not. :(

Not to worry...

No snark intended , and none should be taken...

Relax .

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/17/playing-the-racism-car
d/

'...considering that Obama and his commissars are labeling Americans who just happen to oppose Cap & Trade, billions for clunkers and to the havoc the leftists are trying to wreak on our health care system, as brainless sheep. Large groups of citizens rise up to voice their grievances and he calls them mobs, claims that grass roots are really made of Astroturf and tells his minions to ape the Soviets and rat out their friends and neighbors. Some people I know refer to what Obama is doing as social engineering. I think it’s something even worse: socialist engineering.

I wonder if anyone else has noticed that whenever a black conservative voices an opinion, the liberal claque insists that he’s not an authentic black, and when a white conservative voices an opinion, Obama’s sycophants insist he’s not an authentic American.

When Obama was running for the presidency, a few of us Paul Revere wannabes were warning you: “The reds are coming! The reds are coming!”

Naturally, Obama, a born and bred race hustler who learned his lessons well from Jeremiah Wright, wanted you to believe that the only reason people could possibly have for opposing him was his race. But it was never about the color of his skin. It was always about the color of his politics.'

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/bprelutsky/2009/08/20/clunkers-clunk
ers-everywhere/

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:19 PM

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:39 PM

NO!

I will not sacrifice America.

We've made too many compromises already.

Too many retreats.

They invade our space, and we fall back.

They assimilate entire towns/counties,
and we fall back.

Not again.

The line must be drawn here.

This far.

No FURTHER.

(For me.)

And *I* will make them pay for what they've done.

RUE

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:41 PM

"They invade our space, and we fall back."

Who is this 'they' you speak of ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:49 PM

*ignoring Rue.

"And he piled upon the whales white hump, the sum of all the rage and hate felt by his whole race. If his chest had been a cannon, he would have shot his heart upon it."

RUE

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:17 PM

"They invade our space, and we fall back."
*ignoring Rue.

"Who is this 'they' you speak of ?"

I understand if you can't answer a simple question like that.

I suppose the 'they' you are speaking of is a group you hate, though you say you don't believe in dividing people by groups; who happen to be Americans you don't identify with b/c you disagree with them, though you claim to identify with ALL Americans; on whom you will force your own brand of 'freedom' which you claim to love, though you hate it when people make an actual free choice on their own.

You are one effed-up mess, dude.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:23 PM

We allow those in power to push us back. To force us to give our money and our time to causes we cannot in good conscience support.

But no more.

We MUST draw our line here. This far and no further.

RUE

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:27 PM

And if the majority of people WANT those ones in power to be there ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:31 PM

You just won't leave me alone, will you Rue? You'd like me to "Hulk out" and smack you back...

But you have every right to post your opinion. Foolish and manipulative as it may be.

Have at it.

ETA: Tho, you and your ilk would love to force others to YOUR way of thinking... there are 4 lights.

RUE

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:37 PM

Rue:
"And if the majority of people WANT those ones in power to be there ?"
Wulf:
You just won't leave me alone, will you Rue? You'd like me to "Hulk out" and smack you back..."

Let's see --- have I gotten together with my buds and cornered you in a hall ? Pulled out a weapon ? Physically threatened you in any way ?

Well ????? Have I ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

KWICKO

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

And by whether or not Wulfie thinks "they" can give gifts!

But he's really not a racist. Really.

Mike

Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:38 PM

No, but your fupa (fat upper pussy area) IS quite threatening.

RUE

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:40 PM

Now see, you've just made yourself look like an even bigger ass, as if that was possible. Racist AND sexist, on top of being unable to control your aggression when there is not even a hint a physical threat ... it just gets better and better, doesn't it ? *

***************************************************************

* And by better and better, I mean worse and worse.

KWICKO

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:42 PM

And Wulfie, what are YOU trying to do, other than FORCE US TO YOUR OPINION?

Seriously.

You want us all to believe that you're not a racist, when you quite clearly ARE a racist. You believe broad statements about black people, based on nothing but empty stereotypes and idiotic wives' tales: Black people can't give gifts, black people have "lower blood" than whites (YOUR words, which YOU claimed were TRUE).

You want to FORCE your version of "freedom" on us - that freedom to hate, freedom to incite violence, freedom to shoot those you disagree with...

And you have that right. Sure you do. Just as I have the right to mock you incessantly as an idiot for your wrong-headed beliefs.

Mike

Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:43 PM

Whatever Rue, go pet your cat...

Leave the real discussions to free-minded people.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:45 PM

"black people have "lower blood" than whites (YOUR words, which YOU claimed were TRUE)."

You know... I didnt want to believe that there were people here who would pervert what others said... naive me.. but in the thread you are quoting... I already said 10 times already that it was what was accepted, not what I believe.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:51 PM

....... and I would add, neither of you have the balls to admit when you change your previous posts.

Is that your thing? Post something, and then when someone responds negating it, to go back and edit your post?

Really?

Isnt the new age of electronic mockery grand?

Funny how I refuse to do that.

Then again, I may have more honor than either of you. Tho, I admit, neither of you know what that word means.

RUE

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:15 PM

"Leave the real discussions to free-minded people."

Hard to do any discussion when you can't answer a simple, impersonal, topical question - what if most people WANT to have the people in power who are there ?

***************************************************************

Still waiting.

HKCAVALIER

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:15 PM

Gee, I wish these threads didn't go on and on like this, spawning meta-threads that promise to go nowhere (ack, I'm turning into dreamtrove!!!)

And no, just because I desire a thing to stop does not in any way imply that I would enact laws to force the issue. Still get to wish folk would wise or grow up a little.

Hey, is there any room in this polarized echo-chamber for a person to be racially insensitive without being full-on oh-my-god-hide-the-kids racist?

Wulf is being quite openly racially insensitive, I guess 'cause he thinks he's making a point which even his wife, it would seem, doesn't quite understand. He seems to like being misunderstood. And y'all seem more than happy to oblige.

Maybe he's just got a racist id, like the rest of us, and he lets his run 'round this forum to get it out of his system and to validate his self-hatred by how many people wish him dead because of it. Maybe y'all think you can erase your own racist ids by condemning Wulf's loudly and often for all to see.

And what if he really, really IS racist? Then what, Mike? What are ya gonna do? You can't do anything except ignore him and move on.

So...why don'tcha skip a step and just, y'know, move on? It might lower your blood pressure.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

RUE

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:19 PM

Me, I'm still trying to figure out how we can be free with Wulf deciding for us what we should have and how we should be.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:28 PM

Quote:
In their incredible arrogance, they vilify me for loving my country and not viewing myself as a victim of white America. In the sick minds of liberals, as a black man in America, I must support President Obama regardless of his policies. I must resent white America.

I really hate it when right-wingers, in their incredible arrogance, put words in my mouth... and get it WRONG!

WHAT A LYING, TWO-FACED SON OF A JACKAL!!!

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:50 PM

I'm with HK. Seriously, for the past week or so all the RWED threads have devolved into Wulf bashing.

Yes, he's wince-worthy and politically incorrect sometimes, and the recent race-labeling thread was an example. And his political stances are a little vague and sometimes extreme.

But almost every post Wulf makes, someone's quoting him and dissecting every paragraph, and a lot of what he's saying is being taken out of context.

Is Wulf racist? That's not for me to judge. The gaffes he does make seem to be unintentional, "knee jerk" as I've heard them described. In the meantime, I'm willing to have a civil discussion of issues with him, and willing to talk over these same issues as they come up, explain why I disagree with him.

KWICKO

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:59 PM

Quote:

I'm with HK. Seriously, for the past week or so all the RWED threads have devolved into Wulf bashing.

Well, he certainly doesn't help his case by posting the same shitty movie clips in every thread he can find, AND by starting new threads to expand on those viewpoints.

KWICKO

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"black people have "lower blood" than whites (YOUR words, which YOU claimed were TRUE)."

You know... I didnt want to believe that there were people here who would pervert what others said... naive me.. but in the thread you are quoting... I already said 10 times already that it was what was accepted, not what I believe.

"Accepted" by WHOM? If not YOU, then WHO accepts this as "true"? Who believes it, if not you? Who taught it to you? Where did you get the notion that it was in any way the "true" answer?

By the way, you're dreaming if you don't think there are people here who would pervert what others say. Beware your new buddy Out2theBlack: he's repeatedly accused me of trying to have him banned from this site, which is more than a perversion of my words - it's a flat-out LIE, something that never happened and that he can't find any evidence of, and he knows it.

Mike

Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black

STORYMARK

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
And if the majority of people WANT those ones in power to be there ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

He didn't answer that question when I asked it in his "no snark" thread.

I will say, this is one of his more disturbing - and disturbed - threads.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

SIGNYM

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:07 AM

Wulf, out of everything that you've written, the only thing I can figure is that you're an angry man looking for an excuse for violence. I can't figure out who "they" are. I'm not sure that YOU have clear idea who "they" are. It seems to apply to everyone from blacks to socialists to hippies to the 99.9999% of "sheeple" who you somehow think are evil...?

I choose not to call you a racist. I believe your problems are deeper than that. Get help, please, before you hurt someone that you truly love.

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 2:22 AM

Well... Okay, point, Wulf starting threads to expound upon these problems isn't helping either.

Still, at some point this conflict needs to calm down a little bit or else it'll begin to take over every thread.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:04 AM

Quote:
Still, at some point this conflict needs to calm down a little bit or else it'll begin to take over every thread.

Begin?????

But yanno what???

This ceaseless harrying of Wulf isn't doing any good. It won't change his mind or give him insight. If anything, all it does is reinforce his view of himself and others. (Just repeating what HK said.) And BTW, my previous post was in all seriousness.

NIKI2

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:50 PM

I'd like to add my voice to those calling for a cessation of Wulf-baiting and Wulf-bashing. If anyone cares to look back, what I'm seeing in the time I've been here is that what Wulf posts is NOTHING like as vicious as what comes back to him. And things are turned around; his satement about "lower blood" or whatever IS what so many people believe; it IS what racists believe; it IS what many subsciously believe. It's not about HIM, it's about society.

On the other hand,

Quote:
In the sick minds of liberals, as a black man in America, I must support President Obama regardless of his policies. I must resent white America. I must feel entitled to the earnings of other Americans. My belief that my success or failure is totally in the hands of myself and my God is anathema to them.

infuriates ME, too. What a bunch of crap. What's not taken into consideration is that all this comes from tea-party affairs. The people there are expecting those who agree with them to be the speakers; hence they are predisposed to like anyone who does so. The people who are there to oppose the tea-party protesters and their agenda are predisposed to DISlike anyone who speaks to that agenda. They also represent the worst of the left, just as to ME what I see by way of protests, things said by the protesters themselves and the signs they display, represents the worst of the right.

To judge an entire group of people by the small minorities that show up at these affairs is ridiculous--there are many people, in fact the majority of Americans, who still support Obama, and there are those who would never support him because he's Black, he represents change, or because of thir own inate fears. As Obama pointed out, he was Black BEFORE the election, yet still won a distinct mandate of the people. That means the overt racists are in the minority, and were joined by people who rejected him for other reasons. It doesn't mean that all who voted for him are "sick-minded liberals", or democrats, or socialists, or any OTHER single thing.

Every goddamned thing that quote says is NOT what the majority of "liberals" or "democrats" believe, not by a long shot. It's disgusting to hear people rant about stuff that way, be it about liberals, conservatives, right, left, Republicans, Democrats, Blacks, Whites, or any other group. It's also ridiculous to judge an entire group of people by what one meets up with at an affair where one side is predisposed one way and the other side the other way--AND where the "other side" represents people feeling strongly enough to SHOW UP. Pure bullshit.

In California, I've never met a single solitary person who believes the things you ascribe to liberals, and at least here in No. Cal., we are overwhelmingly democrats and liberals. What you said is exactly the same kind of narrow-minded propaganda one can hear any day on Faux Noise, nothing more.

Yeah, I'm pretty steamed and this post represents it. But it's over-the-top stuff like that about either party that gets to me; otherwise, I, too, would really like to see things calm down.

For one thing, if you have it in for someone like Wulf, you READ what he posts with pre-judgments and miss what he actually writes. His answer to the racial question was 100% how it IS, in my opinion, yet it got jumped on as HIS expressing racism, when in actuality he never said he believed that way himself. I think it's wrong, and I think those of us who have pre-conceptions and feel righteous about being vicious toward others should be ashamed of ourselves.

Not only that, but it precludes decent discussion/debate and just turns the thread into something I end up regretting wasting the time reading. Surely we can do better. Whatever anyone writes should be taken at face value, as what they intend to say, not who they were in the past, not as representing what our own prejudices against them are. The antipathy toward Wulf here is directly comparable to what I received elsewhere; I abhor it, I reject it and I will not engage i

WULFENSTAR

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:18 PM

Actually I don't mind the bashing, and Im NOT doing it out of some sort of "pay attention to me!!" complex/thing. (Ok, the bashing does get a little bit extreme, and Im not going to lie and say it doesn't get to me a bit somedays)

But.

I want you all to THINK. TO SEE that there is a lot out there that NEEDS to be talked about. Stuff that PC has deemed untouchable, or that courtesy would hide/ignore.

I might be going about things the wrong way. But I get the feeling some-days that Im in a Victorian-era home, with Victorian-era people, who refuse to talk about the 30000lb elephant destroying the furniture.

Im running around asking, "Shouldn't we do something"? Until I get so fed up I start throwing glasses of champagne at peoples heads to listen.

So yeah, a lot of what I say is "wince-worthy", not "PC", and sometimes downright off the way scary... but dammit!

We HAVE to talk about this stuff. It HAS to be out in the open for anything to change for the better.

P.S. I actually have an ulterior motive for arguing as hard as I do here. It helps me to learn how to argue out "there", in the real world.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:31 PM

Wulf, I know what you mean.

But.

You have not been able to narrow down who or what this elephant is.

Is it racism? (Both ways?)

Socialism?

The ultra-wealthy?

"Sheeple"?

The gubmint?

Corporations?

All of the above?

None of the above?

------------
FWIW, I agree with you in one sense: I think we are hurtling off a cliff, as fast as our legs can carry us. At some point in the future, I will no longer be able to take care of myself or my mentally disabled daughter. If things go very wrong... as I think they will... I may choose the ultimate opt-out for both of us. So the future I envision is extremely bleak... possibly even worse than what YOU imagine.

So, instead of telling us what your idea of "freedom" is... I feel like we didn't get very far with that ... tell us what your ultimate nightmare is.

WULFENSTAR

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:36 PM

All of the above.

Including that which allows these things to get out of hand.

Apathy, and self-involvement.

There are more things tho, as well.

Right now, I dont have the time to write them all out.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:43 PM

Quote:
All of the above.
Including that which allows these things to get out of hand.
Apathy, and self-involvement.
There are more things tho, as well.
Right now, I dont have the time to write them all out.

I think that's why people find it difficult to respond to you. It sounds like it could be anything ... an emotional reaction with no way to predict what sets it off, or why, or what you're truly reacting to.

So, I have to wonder... what is the basis of this discomfort? Is there anything that they all have in common? A connecting theme, or requirement, or tone?

NIKI2

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:51 PM

Interestingly, Wulf

Quote:
P.S. I actually have an ulterior motive for arguing as hard as I do here. It helps me to learn how to argue out "there", in the real world.

That helped me, too, enormously. I used to fly off the handle and respond viscerally at whatever I thought was being attacked, especially myself, on the boards I've been on for over ten years. Over time I learned from those exchanges and, tho' I'm still far from "there", I've learned a different way to "speak" which makes debate and discussion much more possible. I'm ever grateful to those who helped me change how I communicate. I commend your efforts in that respect, tho' I disagree with you on many things.

On the other hand, I don't think there's much of ANYTHING which isn't discussed here, from what I've seen. I don't think you need to point out the 3000 lb. elephants HERE...maybe in the real world, but from what I see here, people are thoughtful and make an effort to present their case and listen to others; and concede points where they see them as valid.

Yeah, the vitriol has been pretty bad lately, and it saddens me. It was better when I first arrived, there were less personal attacks, but maybe like all things it goes through phases.

I'd find what you post much more effective if you posted your WORDS, not the silly videos which I don't even watch because they don't relate to the real world. But that's just me.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

HERO

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
ETA: Think of the Enterprise as America, and the little towns within.

What about unincorporated muncipal townships, port authorities, and State Parks located within City limits? No...if anything America is like Deep Space Nine with its black Captain.

You can't tell me that Morn and Newt Gingrich are not identical.

In any event, Obama, like Sisko, will continue to be a wuss until he shaves his head, grows a goatee, and gets some of that old-time Bajoran religeon.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

KPO

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
In their incredible arrogance, they vilify me for loving my country and not viewing myself as a victim of white America. In the sick minds of liberals, as a black man in America, I must support President Obama regardless of his policies. I must resent white America.
I really hate it when right-wingers, in their incredible arrogance, put words in my mouth... and get it WRONG! WHAT A LYING, TWO-FACED SON OF A JACKAL!!!

Bad song as well.

Heads should roll

WULFENSTAR

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:17 PM

Niki,

Eh, we ARE a visual species.

I'll try to keep the number of them down, tho.

HKCAVALIER

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
...until he shaves his head, grows a goatee...

You mean like this?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

STORYMARK

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:38 PM

"And if the majority of people WANT those ones in power to be there?"

Wulf, you ever going to have the courage to actually answer this one? In either thread??

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

WULFENSTAR

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:05 PM

Actually, I think I already did answer that question.

Sorry if the answer didn't give you fodder to attack me.

If you are going to hound me on every thread, at least do your homework.

STORYMARK

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:26 PM

Maybe I missed your reply in the other thread, but after 2 days, I got tired of waiting for an answer.

Hmmmm.... just went through the thread again.... no, you didn't answer it. So, coward and liar, then.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

SIGNYM

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:22 PM

Not recalling an answer either.

So, Wulf, do us a favor. Please repeat your answer 'cause nobody seems to know what it is.

SIMONWHO

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:34 PM

Irony: a racist using a clip featuring a British actor playing a Frenchman talking to a black woman from a franchise dedicated to unifying humanity.

Still, glad to hear you've found your defining line. Not the breaches of the Constitution. Not the faked reasoning for the invasion of Iraq. Not the billions poured in corporate military contractors. Oh no, they're all fine. But using public money to help people unable to afford medical treatment? That's your line.

HKCAVALIER

Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:22 AM

And don't forget the stunning irony that in the clip Piccard is shown to be wrong and just a little out of his gourd! lol

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

KWICKO

Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
And don't forget the stunning irony that in the clip Piccard is shown to be wrong and just a little out of his gourd! lol

Oh, if you'll notice, MOST of the clips that Wulf puts up as inspiration end with the "hero" of the clip dead, their heroic stand turns out to be nothing, their followers are wiped out to the last man, etc.

As Josey Wales says, "Dyin' ain't much of a living, boy."

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Irony: a racist using a clip featuring a British actor playing a Frenchman talking to a black woman from a franchise dedicated to unifying humanity.

Still, glad to hear you've found your defining line. Not the breaches of the Constitution. Not the faked reasoning for the invasion of Iraq. Not the billions poured in corporate military contractors. Oh no, they're all fine. But using public money to help people unable to afford medical treatment? That's your line.

yeah, let's put 'evil' in perspective

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:59 PM

"And don't forget the stunning irony that in the clip Piccard is shown to be wrong and just a little out of his gourd! lol "

Yeah, it would almost seem like I do these things on purpose... wouldn't it?

And I'VE been accused of not understanding subtlety.....(shakes head)

BYTEMITE

Thursday, September 24, 2009 2:10 PM

Quote:
"And if the majority of people WANT those ones in power to be there?"

Can I answer this one?

Most of us Anarchists (or the Libertarians, the REAL ones) aren't hoping for an overnight change, a big coup, a public revolution. That's a bit unrealistic.

Most of the people want this government you say, then the change probably isn't even gonna happen in our lifetimes. So we have to work small for now, because we can't force these ideas on anyone. It's against the principle of them.

And there's logical and ethical reasons for us to move slow too. Move too fast before people are ready, and you end up with people who are frightened by the change, displaced, unsure what to do... And that turns ugly. Plus, right now the government has more than enough force to put down any real threat of revolution. They have to be starved a little bit of their supply of guns and military.

So instead, mostly we're focused on exposing the very WORST of corruption and transgressors and kicking them in the face. Sometimes physically, with Frem, and sometimes using their own justice system against them, not because it's easier or because it means anything, but because the public NOTICES that.

The theory goes, as more corruption gets exposed, more people will get tired of it. Eventually, people may begin to conclude that maybe it's not such a good idea to give certain people certain powers in the first place.

Either that, or the government itself is going to end up destroying ITSELF, without our help, which increasingly looks like a possibility. No government lasts forever.

When either scenario happens, we'll be ready with communities we've already begun to establish to catch people who want out in our safety net.

HKCAVALIER

Thursday, September 24, 2009 3:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"And don't forget the stunning irony that in the clip Piccard is shown to be wrong and just a little out of his gourd! lol "

Yeah, it would almost seem like I do these things on purpose... wouldn't it?

And I'VE been accused of not understanding subtlety.....(shakes head)

Aw, c'mon Wulf!

"Subtlety?"

Really?

Can't you start with plain, make sure you have SOMEBODY onboard with what you're trying to say, and then get to "subtlety?" Why in hell would you go on and on about "Not one more villiage! Not one more town!" paraphrasing Piccard who is OBVIOUSLY saying such things, not out of rational convition, but out of the rage and terror brought on by PTSD?

Is all this bloviation from you just a "cry for help?"

Piccard had to calm down and do what was right to save his people--all his heroic bluster was tainted by the terrible abuse he'd suffered. Are folks like Rue and Kwicko right to play Alfre Wooodard to your Jean Luke Ahab, shouting at you until you break something and you feel properly ashamed of yourself?

And from this am I to assume that you think the "Why I wear a mask guy" is as deluded and sad as the rest of us?

Silly me for thinking you intended to make sense. Carry on.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:40 PM

"Silly me for thinking you intended to make sense."

I do make sense, you just have to THINK.

My point, was that folks here tend to wonder where and WHY all of the Tea Parties, the Open Carry and all the rest come from.

Its here. I think, and its just my opinion, that people are tired of the way things are.

Tired of the crime.

Tired of the politicians lies.

Tired of their rights being taken away.

Tired of their money being taken to either A. Fund something they don't believe in.. or B. Used to line the pockets of corrupt politicians.

Tired of NOT speaking up, b/c its impolite, or could be seen as un-PC.

And yes, in the end, Piccard realized what he had to do ultimately to stop the Borg advance.

I just don't want it to get to that point, where we have to "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:54 PM

Quote:
My point, was that folks here tend to wonder where and WHY all of the Tea Parties, the Open Carry and all the rest come from.

Mainly? Racism, stupidity, and right-wing propaganda.

YES, things are effed up, but seeing people get wildly upset about shit that isn't even real...? Peeps have tea parties about "taxes" and get crazy about "death panels" and somehow... still... haven't gotten a clue about the war in Iraq and capitalism....? It's like watching a bunch of zombies club themselves over the head until brains leak out their ears and their skulls cave in. THAT speaks to me of POWERFUL misdirection by TPTB...DON'T try to make life better for yourself! DON'T tax us rich folk! (Save it all for us)

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:56 PM

Racism, stupidity, and LEFT-wing propaganda...

You guys are so hung up on Left vs Right... THATS what is sad.

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:05 PM

Lookit Wulf... everyone is crying about the deficit now. Why weren't they crying about it then, under Bush? Why is health care "too expensive", but war is not? Why are people frantic about "death panels", but not frantic that thousands of American lives were lost in the ME and tens of thousands lost due to lack of insurance?

If people are griping about their freedoms now, why didn't they object then to The (so-called) Patriot Act? THAT's when the Bill of Rights was shredded.

Why are people SO WORRIED about "gubmint" now, but not worried when Bush ramped it up then???

Is it possibly because the rich and powerful were making money THEN, but stand to lose some money NOW??? Is it possible that they're spreading a message that peeps are stupidly responding to because they're NOT THINKING????

NAAAAHHHHH

HKCAVALIER

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:14 PM

Oh, for the love o' Pete! Yeah, that's my problem, I don't think.

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I do make sense, you just have to THINK.

My point, was that folks here tend to wonder where and WHY all of the Tea Parties, the Open Carry and all the rest come from.

That was the reason you posted the Star Trek clip? You don't make sense.

Quote:
Its here. I think, and its just my opinion, that people are tired of the way things are.

I won't dispute that, as far as it goes. But, no, nothing to do with the Star Trek clip.

Quote:
Tired of the crime.

I guess there's a vague connection here. Borg = crime. Piccard is fed up with crime, you could say, and it's made him loopy and you sympathise with that.

Quote:
Tired of the politicians lies.

Nope. Nothing to do with Piccard. Except that he's on the brink of perpetrating such political lies and fascist toadie Bev Crusher is all too willing to follow her ex-boyfriend over the cliff.

Quote:
Tired of their rights being taken away.

Now we have government = borg and Jean-Luke would be at the front of the line with his pitchfork sharpened, but in the end, he needs to put his pitchfork away and stop ranting--something you might do well to emulate.

Quote:
Tired of their money being taken to either A. Fund something they don't believe in.. or B. Used to line the pockets of corrupt politicians.

Again, no relation to the Star Trek clip. I tell you the clip makes no sense and your identification with Piccard is ironic and you give me a handful of grievances that have nothing to do with the Star Trek clip to justify the Star Trek clip.

Quote:
Tired of NOT speaking up, b/c its impolite, or could be seen as un-PC.

Good for you--don't see as Piccard exactly has that problem.

Quote:
And yes, in the end, Piccard realized what he had to do ultimately to stop the Borg advance.

I just don't want it to get to that point, where we have to "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

I think we're all in agreement with you on that point. But have concidered the following?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:15 PM

I can only speak for myself.

Yes, Obama had a lot to do with it. For me, the idea of a black president scared the hell out of me. (Insert snark about how Im a terrible racist, here) But he was chosen, and thats fine.

But, now? I started do my research. Looking back over the last 10, 20, 30, 200 years. And realizing what we had given up under Bush, and what is continuing under Obama.

Ive always said that Obama being elected has been a good thing, because it has made people wake up. People are now researching things, looking things up, PAYING ATTENTION.

And what people are seeing, they don't like. They don't like the Patriot Act, which Obama has not rescinded. They dont like PC, or the bailouts. They don't like government controlled health-care. They want their boys home, which Obama has not done. (Speaking of which, why hasnt he brought the troops home? Instead of trying to *fix* healthcare?)

Noone has ever said Haliburton or Enron were right, but neither were the corporate bailouts that allowed for these douchebags to get golden parachutes.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:18 PM

... and hey. If Im pissing people off, instead of going with the established, status quo... good.

Snark away.

KWICKO

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Racism, stupidity, and LEFT-wing propaganda...

You guys are so hung up on Left vs Right... THATS what is sad.

And in your "subtle" way, all you can do is point out the LEFT-wing propaganda. I notice you never, EVER seem to take note of the RIGHT-WING propaganda - even when you repeat it word for word yourself (Stephen Hawking, anyone?).

So it seems as though YOU are hung up on right-v-left as well. I know you don't consider yourself partisan, but trust me; you are.

Mike

Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black

KWICKO

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Noone has ever said Haliburton or Enron were right, but neither were the corporate bailouts that allowed for these douchebags to get golden parachutes.

Really? "No one" has said that?

In the words of Addison "Joe" (Not His Real Name) Wilson,

"YOU LIE!"

There have been people right here, on this very board, who have argued that these were all legal and proper, and therefore right.

Mike

Old friend charity
Cruel twisted smile
And the smile signals emptiness
For me
Starless and Bible black

NIKI2

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:25 PM

Okay, the clip got so much mention I went back and watched it. And smiled sadly. Again wiht the dramatic music, the "hero", the "villain", and all that Hollywoodized theatricality. Sigh...

Wulf, in my opinion you're wrong. The vast majority of Americans are NOT tired enough of those things to do anything about it. It's being made to LOOK like it, because of a small, violent, noisy minority being used by one party, but the true fact is they ARE small...why do you think they needed to lie about the number of people who showed up to 9/12, lie by increasing the real number from 70,000 to 2 MILLION? To make it look like more people are just what you say--but they're not. There are always dissatisfied people, and if you think this is some kind of revolution, you should wonder where all of those people were for the past eight years, when we DID have the closest thing to tyranny America's yet seen. You think they got sick of it all of a sudden in the past few months?!?

Democracy works; not well, but it works. I doubt there's more crime, political lies, etc. (tho' I don't see their rights being 'taken away' as increasing) than there ever was before. Politicians have lied since there was such a thing as politics, instead of royalty, etc. In a democracy, politicans need to lie to get the people behind them...kings didn't need to as much, tho' even then, they had to lie to their supporters or cabinets or whatever.

Crime has been here since man began, and is no more than it ever was before, in my opinion...our POPULATION has increased, so it seems like there's more, but we have yet to experience, young as America is, true tyranny, genocide or the other things the rest of the world has experienced/is experiencing.

As far as not speaking up, that's a laugh. Americans have NEVER had the slightest problem speaking up...exactly what decade can you point to where they did? We're infamous for protesting, for standing up and shouting about what we think is wrong! Hell, that's how we got started!

So much bitching and moaning, so much calling for revolution. The majority of Americans have it so much better than most of the rest of the world...if our government is so very terrible, then why do you think such a large number of people in the world want to immigrate here?

I may be cynical and bitch and moan as loudly as anyone else, but the bottom line is I know we've got it pretty damned good, all things considered, and I'm not about to want to tear it down. I want to work within the system to make it BETTER, of course, but your way is, again, black and white, bad and good, no room for compromise or middle ground.

Your corollary is fallacious from the start; the government is not the Borg, and it's not life-or-death to fight it. You'll never see that, I'm sure, but I can list many, many countries where, if you were dumped there, you'd wish for nothing more than to return to America. No way am I saying it's perfect, but we can improve it, we don't have to see our government as "Borg" and imagine tearing the whole country down to defeat it. I'm sad or you that you see things that way.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:26 PM

"There have been people right here, on this very board, who have argued that these were all legal and proper, and therefore right."

There were people here who argued that what Enron did was right? That giving bailouts to companies, that then went to pay for golden parachutes were right?

Then those who said that were idiots. IMHO.

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:26 PM

Wulf, the right wing... YES, the RIGHT WING... is very good at whipping up faux populism and using that energy to take even MORE away from you!

More later.

DREAMTROVE

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:32 PM

HK,

Am I an epithet? I hope I'm not in this thread ;)

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:33 PM

Again, Im not Right wing, or a Republican....

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:49 PM

Heh.

That's what YOU think.

Show me where you differ.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:51 PM

I can only speak for myself. Trying to say that X believes "this" is foolish. I don't know everyone who belongs to "X".

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:52 PM

I can only speak for myself. Trying to say that X believes "this" is foolish. I don't know everyone who belongs to "X".

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:58 PM

Well, I guess you can first start out by saying what YOU think characterizes the "right wing", and then you can distinguish yourself from whatever you think the RW is. It will certainly help us understand your views of "right wing", "left wing" and so forth. [snark] After all, you use those terms rather frequently. Are you saying YOU don't have an idea what you mean by them?? [/snark]

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:02 PM

Nice bait,
but I won't bite,
Sig.

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:16 PM

Not even a credible dodge, Wulf. Basically, you don't know. You don't know which groups are what, you don't know where you stand in relation to them, you don't know where anyone else stands either.

Let me put it this way: You get your news from RW sources. (You must, otherwise you wouldn't have passed along the Stephen Hawking nonsense.) You respond to "heroic", authoritarian, ignorant, vengeance-driven language. You're against taxing the rich to help the poor, which is cloaked with a sudden anti-government fervor. And most importantly (and amusingly) you believe that you're SUCH an individual that you don't belong to any group, and you can't possibly be manipulated by them, because your rage and anger will protect you

Son, you're being played. Get to know the players.

RUE

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:20 PM

Wulf

You spend a LOT of time posting about how the left wing liberals (or hippies, or blacks, or populace, or 'them') think that all problems can be solved with government (or love, or welfare, or tea parties, or whatever).

Are you trying to say that you now can't speak for anyone else at all ?

OK. We'll just ignore everything you post.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:20 PM

"you believe that you're SUCH an individual that you don't belong to any group"

Actually. Yes.

"and you can't possibly be manipulated by your rage and anger"

Actually. No.

"You don't know which groups are what, you don't know where you stand in relation to them, you don't know where anyone else stands either."

Actually. I don't care. Other than that I can learn from them, and learn what NOT to be.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:24 PM

"Are you trying to say that you now can't speak for anyone else at all ? "

No. Im saying I refuse to speak for anyone else. People here can easily speak for themselves.

I speak for myself, my experience. None else.

If some choose to agree with me, good. If some choose to disagree with me, thats good as well.

NIKI2

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:33 PM

I don't see it as bait, Wulf; I'd like to hear what you believe represents right and left. Everyone has beliefs, and if we're honest about them, they tend to show whether we are more right or left. I'd like to hear your, or anyone's, basic beliefs and see where they land. Just out of curiosity.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:36 PM

Sorry, I post-edited, but still means the same.

Quote:
you believe that you're SUCH an individual that you don't belong to any group-SIGNY
Actually. Yes.-WULF

Actually, no. One of the biggets fallacies of right-wingers ... especially right-wing pawns... is that they believe they're free agents!

Quote:
and you can't possibly be manipulated by your rage and anger-SIGNY
Actually. No.-WULF

Actually, yes. Your anger is amped up SO HIGH that all anyone has to do is wave certain concepts at you and you unthinkingly charge them like a bull.

Quote:
You don't know which groups are what, you don't know where you stand in relation to them, you don't know where anyone else stands either.-SIGNY
Actually. I don't care. Other than that I can learn from them, and learn what NOT to be. -WULF

And yet, you cannot describe the people from whom you get your information, and share many emotional reactions with? Hell, man, you can't even describe your goals, your enemies, what sets you off, what they have in common... It's not like you haven't been asked either.

You're REACTING. That makes you a convenient tool in the eyes of many. If you want to remove yourself from their hands, you need to think: What sets me off? Why? What do I really want? Is someone pushing my buttons? Why? What do THEY stand to gain? What do I stand to lose?

Most importantly: BE SPECIFIC AND CONCRETE IN YOUR THINKING.

You tend to overdramatize, and come up with FREEDOM! which is, really, an empty word which sounds great but which can be filled with a million defintions. Ask yourself: Are my Constitutional rights being abridged? (Check the Bill of Rights to stay specific.) Will my taxes be raised? Will my pay go up or down?

I suspect that this concrete thinking won't fill the void or calm the distress that you feel. But it should help you isolate the source of your anger. It MAY tell you that the distress you feel is about 50% extrinsic (due to external factors) and about 50% intrinsic (due to habitual patterns of thought and high internal levels of stess.)

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:37 PM

What? So I can get boxed into the "right" box, cause Im for the right of citizens to have weapons? Or into the "left" box cause I believe that abortion SHOULD be legal (tho I disagree with it morally)?

Niki, if you ARE a Buddhist, you should KNOW that people cannot be placed in boxes.

There is too much life out there to try and trap it within certain boxes.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:38 PM

On the anger issue, Sig, I was agreeing with you. Yes, I can say that my rage blinds me sometimes.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:38 PM

On the anger issue, Sig, I was agreeing with you. Yes, I can say that my rage blinds me sometimes.

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:43 PM

Quote:
Niki, if you ARE a Buddhist, you should KNOW that people cannot be placed in boxes.

Then why do YOU do it so often??? Are you so friggin' special that everyone BUT YOU can be categorized???

[snark] Oh, yeah, that's right... I forgot. You're a legend in your own mind. [/snark]

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:46 PM

"Then why do YOU do it so often??? Are you so friggin' special that everyone BUT YOU can be categorized???"

Yes.

But Im "special". /snark/

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:49 PM

Hoookaaay... now that we got THAT squared away...

So, since you seem to be able to categorize others pretty well, how about sharing with us your profile of "right wing"?

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:52 PM

Again, Sig, so I can hear about how I AM "right-wing"? Take even more snark and b.s.?

Thanks, but no.

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:01 PM

No.

So you can explain to us how you are NOT.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:03 PM

Thats my point Sig.

I dont have to *explain* myself to anyone. Especially here. And not in the RW.

RUE

Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM

Since you will not discuss anything with us, then there is no reason for us to discuss anything with you.

Goodbye.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:11 PM

Rue, dont you have some pain pills to take?

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:11 PM

Rue, dont you have some pain pills to take?

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:12 PM

Then why are you here? Isn't the POINT of discussion to explain yourself: What you think, and why? I don't think you should have to JUSTIFY yourself, but that's not what I'm asking for. All I would like to know, really, is what characteristics YOU think belong to the "right wing".

NIKI2

Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:24 PM

Ooops. I just saw the fallacy. You DO put down "liberals" and so forth rather freely, and I don't recall seeing you post equal remarks about right-wingers.

Yes, I know, nobody can be boxed...but people CHOOSE to box themselves politically by acting on the things they believe, espousing what they believe, and countering the things they don't believe. So while one can refuse to ACCEPT that they lean one way or another, it doesn't mean they DON'T, it just means they refuse to see it in themselves.

Self-awareness is vital for growth, so knowing oneself is the most important thing of all. I see generalities on the left and on the right, and I recognize that by my beliefs I am more left-leaning than right.

What about you? You can say all you want about not "boxing" people in, but first you have to understand that there's a huge difference between being buddhist and being right or left. Buddhism isn't about politics; within the sphere of politics, virtually everyone believes one way or another.

One can't be in favor of everything; one can be AGAINST everything, but that's pretty dramatic and unworkable. So think a minute about what you believe IN, and see where it puts you.

For me, lessee...I believe in...
equality
helping the poor and less fortunate
being environmentally responsible
being responsible for my actions
not forcing my will on others
government providing some safety nets
capitalism needing some restraint
freedom of religion
freedom of sexual preference

I'm sure I could think longer and come up with more, but just from those it's pretty obvious I am, at present at least, a pretty bleeding-heart liberal. Because, as best I can describe it, Republicans believe:

there is no such thing as "equality"
everyone is entitled to only what they can achieve
environment needs to be balanced with business
everyone is responsible for themselves
no one should have another's will forced on them
(in those two we agree)
government shouldn't help the less fortunate
business should be unrestricted
one religion for all
homosexuality and bisexuality are sins

Those are blanket statements, of course, and there are many others one could choose to define, and of course there are greys, but that's an example.

What about you? Nobody says anyone has to "explain" themselves, but what do you believe in? What are you against? And if you don't want to say, why don't you? What is wrong/threatening/bad about expressing your beliefs? You feel free to express yourself about things, so what difference is there in expressing yourself about your general beliefs? I'm not trying to pick on you, I guess I'm intrigued by your determination not to share your beliefs.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:30 PM

Ok. I'll play.

But only in that I'll repost the things you said that I agree with.

The things I agree with:

equality
there is no such thing as "equality"
helping the poor and less fortunate (on a personal basis)
being environmentally responsible
being responsible for my actions
not forcing my will on others
freedom of religion
everyone is entitled to only what they can achieve
everyone is responsible for themselves

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:55 PM

It seems that you're reacting to a list of things, but I'm not groking a basis for those reactions. Maybe by looking at the inverse- what you dislike- and figuring out WHY you dsilike it, I can understand what you're "for", and why.

So. You react badly to PC-ness. Why?

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:07 PM

*sigh

Here we go. Im going to say what Im against, and people will pile on it.

No matter.

Yes. Im against PC. Im against it because its evil. Its against all that I hold dear. Its against all freedom of speech. Its against the IDEA of freedom of speech.

Political Correctness was a catch phrase from Hitler. In order to control the thought and speech of Germanys citizens.

RUE

Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:23 PM

"Rue, dont you have some pain pills to take?"

Why are you still here ?

You SAY you're here to learn how to discuss, but then you refuse to do just that. So, either you're here to learn how to incite, or you're here to troll. Either way, you have no business on a discussion board.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:24 PM

hehe sorry.

The idea of sitting here and proclaiming whether I support the left or right, makes me think of this video.

ETA: And for some reason, I also think of Al Pacinos character as Frem.

lol

SIGNYM

Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:29 PM

Actually, it seems that eveyone BUT Hitler used that phrase! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness
(I had to look it up.)

So, you think that political correctness is an attempt to control thought by controlling language, much as in George Orwell's 1984 (where there was no such thing as "bad", only "double plus ungood").

How do you feel about "spin"?

How do you feel about commercials?

ETA: Did you know that the right wing (yes, the right wing) has made an EXTENSIVE study of which words can be used in a sentence to "prime" you to react in a particular way to a key phrase?

DREAMTROVE

Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:39 PM

Wulf,

cite?

I easily agree that Politically Correct is a fascist ideology, and sure, it came from socialists to refer to "acceptable dogma" for propaganda purposes, but I searched found no links to Nazi Germany, only to Mao Tse Dong, who apparently used both the translated phrase and associated idea a political pillar of his ideology.

I would also note that Mao is responsible for far more casualties, civilian or otherwise than Hitler, as everyone already knows, but of course, those deaths were neither white nor judeo-christian. To be ironically politically correct

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:50 PM

"s everyone already knows, but of course, those deaths were neither white nor judeo-christian. To be ironically politically correct"

WHAT DO YOU WANT HERE!! (To quote a movie)

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:23 PM

Wulf, this time you're attributing malice by accident.

Folks want you to refine the target so they can find some specific concept, idea or reform they agree with you about, and then offer suggestions on how to go about working it.

Great grand concepts are fine in theory, but when you have limited resources you really do need to refine down to a minimum target profile so you can actually be immediately effective if that is what you so desire.

Too many folks makin assumptions, and not EXPLAININ stuff to each other, lately.

-F

PS. That verbal slap at Rue was pretty uncalled for mano, and deserves apology - stop lettin your knee jerk get ahead of you, compose stuff on notepad BEFORE you post it to give yourself mental space and distance from your emotions, save THOSE for when you actually NEED that passion.

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