Venezuela imposes more media controls. Chavez plays maracas.

POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Monday, September 29, 2025 15:29
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DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, September 9, 2009 5:29 AM

Gino,

1. There is no way that the elections are credible. I've yet to meet a venezuelan or south american who supports him.

2. He is constantly arming revolutions in neighboring countries.

3. I agree on land reform, but I don't like what he has done with it, but that's a personal policy dispute. I favor native sovereignty and environmentalism, and am no fan of socialism.

But land reform is a tricky business. Just look at Zimbabwe. Still, I would question that 3% owning 70% is unusual. You have stats for the US?

You do raise an interesting additional issue. Since I don't credit that he is Venezuela, esp. with all the assistance he gets from China, then does he represent a threat to Venezuela?

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GINOBIFFARONI

Wednesday, September 9, 2009 7:05 AM

DT,


I have worked with several people from Venezuela, as they had mixed feelings... One group, still living and working there ( the outfit I was with at the time was exporting them equipment ) and during lunch we had a pretty good debate on the subject. While they had some reservations, all three agreed Chavez was diversifying their economy, generating jobs, lessening foreign influence ( primarily US ) which all three felt to be negative. Other guy I worked pretty closely with was a venezuelan ex-pat, and had nothing but rabid hatred for Chavez... but he was honest enough to say he might be a bit bias as his wifes family was caught up in the wrong end of the land redistribution that went on. As with my BBC link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6205128.stm

" Sunday's election saw a high turnout and the poll was monitored by hundreds of international observers. "

I feel having the presence of international observers gives the elections credibility, and the comments here kind of offer a view why,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7894506.stm

2. Arming Revolutions? The only thing I ever heard of was the possible transfer of small arms to FARC. .. tell me the US has never done things like this, he has used diplomatic / political means to counter US influences with his neighbors, but what is wrong with that.

And if Venezuela makes oil deals with China.. or Iran for that matter so what. How is that a threat to the US, the US may not like it,

As for land reform, it is interesting but once again using BBC as my source ( avoiding US media, and its bias )

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4498293.stm

Also, he has increased employment, literacy, instituted a free national healthcare system, decreased poverty, increased domestic food production...

seems rather benevolent compared to Pérez or Caldera who also ruled during oil booms, but didn't really seem to effect any of these things.

so " a threat to Venezuela? " just not seeing it





" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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GEEZER

Wednesday, September 9, 2009 12:25 PM

Quote:

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Originally posted by SignyM:
I noticed that you had nothing to say about the situation in Honduras.

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DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, September 9, 2009 1:01 PM

your first points are not strong ones, any dictatorship would do the same.

here are some other things he's been info: Deforestation, relocation programs for native populations, similar to our own. An arms race.

That the US has done something, as I started out, is not a defense. Using this logic, dropping nuclear bombs on civilian populations is acceptable. So are genocide and slavery.

What this US does is irrelevent to, this isn't about US policy, it's about Venezuela.

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SIGNYM

Wednesday, September 9, 2009 1:30 PM

Yanno Geezer, in the other thread you took exception to the But BUSH... style of argument, and here you are with But VENEZUELA...

If you want to take the problems in Honduras out of context, just like you did the so-called Patriot Act, the Iraq invasion, the Georgian invasion of S Ossetia, Vietnam and a host of other interventions around the world, be my guest. Just be prepared to be proven wrong... again.

But if you want to know what is REALLY happening (which is doubtful) instead of making a sick justification for the coup, here's the thing: The wealthy elite in Honduras didn't want to lose control. They were pissed when Zelaya broke ranks with the Tweedledum and Tweedledee parties, raised the minimum wage (heaven forfend!), and garnered widespread popular support. The NON BINDING referendum which Zelaya proposed would have exposed the floodgates of popular opinion, and could have made it difficult for business owners and bankers to remove Zelaya at the end of his term. (They had a "nice" replacement candidate all lined up. Who btw is not doing too well in popular terms, being pelted with eggs wherever he campaigns) So Zelaya had to be stopped, at any cost. With a coup, if necessary.

But Honduran and regional sources as well as international rights groups report massive resistance to the coup and equally widespread suppression: thousands jailed, hundreds beaten by the police and military, a dozen or more dead, and critical media outlets shut down and then "reprogrammed" to be complacent supporters.

Quote:

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human rights groups and numerous other outside observers report that at least a dozen people have been killed for their political activities since the coup, more than 3,500 detained for peacefully demonstrating, and hundreds beaten while in custody. There's plenty of blood flowing, just one indication of the massive wave of repression ripping through Honduras.... In response, repression has escalated dramatically. Nonviolent demonstrators are routinely rounded up, beaten while in custody and denied medical care, while never charged with a specific crime. The military routinely launches tear gas at protesters without provocation. As Amnesty International reports, "beatings and mass arrests are being used as a way of punishing people for voicing their opposition to the military-backed coup."

Women protesters can face worse. On Aug. 14, a young mother was grabbed by police while participating nonviolently in a large protest. They separated her from male detainees and drove her out of town, where four officers of the National Police raped her and then raped her again with a baton. Rapes while in custody, assassinations and disappearances that are terrorizing Hondurans remain largely unreported in the U.S. press. On July 11, for example, Roger Ivan Bados, a longtime trade unionist and activist in the opposition party Union Democrática, was forcibly removed from his home and killed. Others who participate in demonstrations or other activities have been kidnapped, then found dead.

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Quote:

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We've previously noted that some key members of the coup regime power structure – notably business magnate Adolfo Facusse and Liberal Party presidential nominee Elvin Santos – had begun waxing aloud to find a scapegoat for the illegality of the June 28 coup d’etat. They had both settled on the Armed Forces, and the “original sin” of all that has gone awry since, according to them, was that the military shipped elected President Manuel Zelaya out of the country instead of arraigning him to face prosecution.

“There was an error by a certain sector {ie the military},” Michel

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