Inara: more bad ass than she seems?

POSTED BY: Bytemite
UPDATED: Saturday, August 15, 2009 18:37
VIEWED: 17936
PAGE 7 of 11

We don't know much about these long term contracts, like the one Atherton brought up. Someone like him, who supposedly hasn't been able to get other women, you don't think he might be very concerned about heirs? And that there might be some contingencies the guild has to deal with that inevitability? There's two possibilities. The companion says no is the first one. In that case, the guild has to protect the companion, and they will.

The second is the companion says yes. In their business, it's not unprecedented, it's one of the jobs that Chinese concubines are hired for. And nobility (or semi-nobility, like on Persephone), you don't think they'd pay out the ear to have children with a pedigree like a companion might have? Especially if they can't get any other women who would want to have their children, or maybe have wives who can't have children despite 25th century fertility treatments? Or what about if they're in a long term contract, and they decide to get married, have children, and it falls apart afterward?

I'm not condoning it, it's actually a little disturbing to think of children being a business commodity. But I am saying courtesans bearing children for their patrons has happened historically. That makes it possible for it to happen with companions.

I recognize we agree that Inara can defend herself, but you keep saying that you think I'm saying she's violent. I'm not, and I'm trying to explain myself.

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But as I try to pin down exactly far you mean to go with this "rebellious Inara" idea, I'm finding it hard. You seem to be shifting the lines on the things I don't agree with. Specifically:

"She seems very at home in an old trampy freighter, and in a low-class dive..."

And

"Lastly, sometimes I wonder if she doesn't enjoy some of the thrill and adventure of the crew's law-breaking. Like at the end of Trash, she loved that, and I also wonder if she didn't enjoy it in Shindig when Mal basically mugs the slavers."

I just don't see specific examples of this in the canon material.

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At the beginning of Shindig:

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MAL
There's a chance you may wanna head
back to the ship.

INARA
Oh, I'm all right. This is
entertaining, actually.

MAL
(amused, disbelieving)
Yeah? What's entertaining?

INARA
I like watching the game. As with
other situations, the key seems to be
giving Jayne a heavy stick and
standing back.

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My impression is that she's actually enjoying being at the bar. Sure, she makes a joke about Jayne, but I don't think that lessens the fact that she's relaxing with a little strawberry daiquiri and watching a billiards game in a seedy dive.

I did not see Simon act like that when they all went to the bar in Jaynestown. Simon did not relax... Until Kaylee got him drunk. I don't think Inara is drunk, or even very buzzed in that scene.

Furthermore, my belief is that the brawls aren't a necessary consequence of life in a lower class, but rather of being in the vicinity of Mal and Jayne.

She DID love getting the drop on Saffron in Trash. Are we debating that?

Now, the rule-breaking is of course something I have less proof of, but Inara does describe Mal as a Robin Hood figure in Jaynestown. She says it in a way that indicates that she finds that aspect of him frustrating because it puts him in undue amounts of danger, but respects and admires that he does have a moral code. If she thinks of him as a Robin Hood character, then doesn't that imply that she thinks that at least some of the people he steals from deserve it, and that she approves?

And, if some of the people they steal from deserve it, could she not also approve of, or even enjoy that the crew has stolen from them and gotten away? After all, she enjoys it when she beats Saffron to the lassiter and takes it out from under her, because Saffron deserved to be double-crossed.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by jackwabbit:

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by jackwabbit:

Oh, and yes, Inara can hold her own. And deep down, she ain't as much of a "lady" as she lets on. That IS my honest opinion that ain't likely to change, unlike the mom/past angle.

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Perhaps we just differ in our definition of lady, mayhaps?

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Indeed. I think Inara does have all the outward appearances of being lady-like, but deep down she does enjoy getting her hands a bit dirty, so to speak. It's Trash that makes me certain of this. She looooooves her role there.

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Do you associate weakness, shallowness and emotional passivity with being a lady? Basically, do you consider the term "bad" to begin with, or have a fairly narrow definition? Because to me, Inara IS a lady. Self-possessed, educated, ethical, courages, caring about others, plus all that charm and wit. She's not without flaws (bouts of denial, fear of intimacy) but that doesn't disqualify her.


I think the Saffron thing is actually an exception. Mind, this was a woman who tried to kill them all, and joyfully so, which makes the entire incident rather personal. Plus, Inara's part isn't exactly the fist-fighting, hair-pulling kind. She holds a gun, is a little smug (rightfully so, outfoxing Saffron is a thing to be proud of) and pushes a button.

Sure, there's a smidge of petty joy involved there, but we already know Inara has a sense of humor and occasionally enjoys smugness. That may not be "ladylike" in the way a strict governess might interpret, but it doesn't imply that Inara enjoys getting her hands actually dirty.

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No, I don't think being a lady is a negative thing. And Inara is a lady according to all the adjectives you listed. She is the real deal in that way. I merely meant that that's not all she is. She's not JUST the pretty face and the perfect manners and the education. I do think Inara enjoyed her part in Trash and while it wasn't exactly hands-on fisticuffs, I think she relished being a bit bad, so to speak.

Put it this way. I'm a woman. I occasionally like to wear formal dresses and appreciate all the niceties that go with that. My husband opens my doors and says "ma'am" and all that. But I'm also a second degree black belt, and I love a good fist fight. The two things are not mutually exclusive. I'm a lady when I need to be, and not so much when I don't need to be. While I lean toward the not scale and Inara leans toward the pure lady scale, I think nearly everyone has some of both in them, and Inara is no exception.

And getting her hands dirty doesn't have to mean literally - like Bytemite mentioned, what about fencing the Lassiter?

Have to run for now (as always) but honestly it's just different interps of a character, and that's ok. ; ) I'm done here.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:

I don't think jackwabbit's fic was meant to illustrate a woman who likes violence, who likes to hit people or who is sadistic. Jackwabbit even SAID that wasn't the point. The fic is about a little girl, who gets very mad at a smug little boy, hits the little boy, and is satisfied when the little boy isn't so smug anymore.

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Exactly. Just kid stuff. And actually, I'm pretty sure that little boy said something about someone being a whore. Just sayin.

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Originally posted by mal4prez:


Sorry, I just can't see a child who drew blood like that fic-child turning into Inara.

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Oh, I can. I used to fight all the time, until martial arts chilled me right out. It happens. Perhaps Buddism or Zen did that for Inara.

For the record, I'm 33 and I'm talking about kid fights, not adult fights. That I've never done. I do still spar on rare occasion, though...and I do enjoy it.

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Originally posted by jackwabbit:

No, I don't think being a lady is a negative thing. And Inara is a lady according to all the adjectives you listed. She is the real deal in that way. I merely meant that that's not all she is. She's not JUST the pretty face and the perfect manners and the education.

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Of course, she's also courageous, ethical, caring, charming and witty. Those adjectives seem much more important to me, aside from the education, than the parts you picked, which could easily have described Banning Miller, who I don't consider particularly ladylike, at all.

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I do think Inara enjoyed her part in Trash and while it wasn't exactly hands-on fisticuffs, I think she relished being a bit bad, so to speak.

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I guess I'm more with Mal4Prez in that I think Inara relished the winning, rather than the being bad.

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Put it this way. I'm a woman. I occasionally like to wear formal dresses and appreciate all the niceties that go with that. My husband opens my doors and says "ma'am" and all that. But I'm also a second degree black belt, and I love a good fist fight. The two things are not mutually exclusive. I'm a lady when I need to be, and not so much when I don't need to be. While I lean toward the not scale and Inara leans toward the pure lady scale, I think nearly everyone has some of both in them, and Inara is no exception.

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I figure that enjoying martial arts (I'm guessing you mean that when you say fist fights, not actual assault) is not at all different from Inara, either. It's a sport, a controlled form of exercise, not aggressive violence for the sake of being bad.

That doesn't mean you stop being a lady in those moments of practicing, right?

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And getting her hands dirty doesn't have to mean literally - like Bytemite mentioned, what about fencing the Lassiter?

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Again I point to Mal4Prez here. In her earlier post she described pretty well what I see, too. An act of caring for the crew. It would get them a ton of money and it would keep them out of danger.

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Have to run for now (as always) but honestly it's just different interps of a character, and that's ok. ; ) I'm done here.

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Or that. I guess we can quit here, then.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
We don't know much about these long term contracts, like the one Atherton brought up.

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There's a HUGE difference between: "stay with me for 6 months to go to parties and have lots of sex," and: "stay with me to bear my children." Big big huge difference! And nothing on the series or movie or any documents suggest that the Guild goes for that second option.

But really, the biggest problem I have with your scenario is what it would say about the Guild. The Guild is all about female empowerment, about women owning their sexuality and their bodies without shame or weakness. What you're saying, this bit:

"And I think there's a lot of clients who could turn out to be insensitive bastards or playboys, who might be all flattery, but after having a companion in a long term contract for a while, might decide to cheat, or dismiss the companion and children...."

Takes all the power away from the Companion and gives it to the client. The Guild would never never NEVER allow that situation to happen.

This women are counselors and givers of pleasure. They are not wombs for hire. Allowing them to be breeders completely changes the nature of the Guild as Joss has presented it to us.

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I recognize we agree that Inara can defend herself, but you keep saying that you think I'm saying she's violent.

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You say she enjoys breaking the rules for the sake of breaking the rules. Being bad just to be bad. You call her rebellious, stubborn, a spark plug. You say "She likes breaking rules. Thinks it's thrilling." This is what I disagree with.

The violence part is what I got out of the fic you called your inspiration. There is violence in that. A little girl uses violence to vent her feelings. If you're going to go with that idea, you have to explain where that violence and those bottled up feelings went, and when they don't exist in the grown woman.

Jackwabbit says she still spars. Inara doesn't.

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At the beginning of Shindig:

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Of course Inara makes an effort to fit in and accept any situation. That's what she does. That's what she underwent years of training to learn how to do. She's polite and flexible. And yes, she does enjoy getting off the ship and seeing a new situation. It doesn't mean she grew up there!

So, you still haven't listened to the commentary? Here you go, from the mouth of the writer herself:

Jane Espenson (during the opening scene of Shindig): "The point of this is to show that she does not fit into his world. And the rest of the episode is him failing to fit into her world."

The costume designer also talks of Inara's red dress and pink drink against the dark setting. They don't say so explicitly, but given the context of the discussion (the above line), it's pretty clear that they put work into making Inara look very different from the setting.

It is not her world. That is the point. Says Jane.

As for the comparison with Simon: first, Inara is socially ept. Simon is not. Second, Inara has been on the ship a long time and has had time to adjust. Simon has not.

In OoG, she acted very different then she did months later, after she became accustomed to the crew. The cut from past to present shows so clearly that she has undergone quite a change during her time on Serenity. And again, I believe this was pointed out on the episode commentary. Here we go:

Tim: Now this is a great cut because of their performance. I mean, she is so *different* in this scene then she was in that previous scene... and she's so comfortable in this place."

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She DID love getting the drop on Saffron in Trash. Are we debating that?

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We're debating the reason for it. She didn't love it just for the sake of breaking rules, or she'd be out dumping strange women in dumpsters just for the "thrill of being bad". She loved it because Saffron beat her before, and this was payback.

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Now, the rule-breaking is of course something I have less proof of, but Inara does describe Mal as a Robin Hood figure in Jaynestown. She says it i

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