Inara: more bad ass than she seems?
POSTED BY: Bytemite
UPDATED: Saturday, August 15, 2009 18:37
VIEWED: 17936
PAGE 6 of 11
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Thanks for clarifying. That's kind of how I interpretted your fic, but it's good to know your reasoning behind your choices too. I can see where you were coming from with her mother now. Kind of brings to mind her comment in Trash "You are not my mother,, or anyone else who has any say in my choices." I think that suggests SOMEONE may have taken extra special care of Inara's instruction.
I often change my mind too, but some ideas stick around with me long enough that I begin to include them into my over-all theory.
Man, I have a THEORY about Inara, a fictional character. That's really kind of sad. Oh well, she's fun to talk about. I think Joss Whedon outdid himself depicting her in season one, you just get glimpses of her different sides, but she could be so many things. Very mysterious.
Having a theory is in no way, shape, or form pathetic. I quite like that you have a theory, thank you.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Also, both Inara and Kaylee do laugh after kaylee's "longing" comment, and after Simon goes off on his tirade and tells him off about not thinking much of the people who chose this life, Inara gives him a look as she follows Kaylee out. It's hard to read again, it's not angry, it's not sympathetic, it's seems to me to be somewhere between disapproving, troubled, and unhappy.
http://www.thewb.com/shows/firefly/clip-actually-i-was-being-ironic/e6
4bd01015
Sadly, I can't watch that clip outside the U.S., but I'll popped in my DVD for a quick peek as soon as my roommates disconnect their video game equipement. There's... cables and things. I'm not touching those on my own.
But I will get back to this! Regarding the orphanage... the more I think about it, the less I can get behind the idea of Inara having shared her female caretaker with other kids. I really think a foster mother or legal guardian is as far as I can see it, everything else leaves her too isolated and integrated into a big group of peers, which I can see for her later at the training house, but not earlier when the foundations for her warm, intimate personality are laid.
I'm not saying I hate the orphanage theory on principle (though I don't see the education there being "rudimentary"), it's just that it doesn't work with how I perceive Inara. Just like I see Mal's leadership style as a reflection of his own mother, I see Inara's nurturing kindness as a reflection of her "mother", something close, intimate, warm and secure.
Not to be down on orphanages, but it's just not something I see them providing to that extend and there's probably a reason things like adoption and foster care are often viewed as healthier for a child, right?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by jackwabbit:Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:Quote:
Originally posted by jackwabbit:
Oh, and yes, Inara can hold her own. And deep down, she ain't as much of a "lady" as she lets on. That IS my honest opinion that ain't likely to change, unlike the mom/past angle.
Perhaps we just differ in our definition of lady, mayhaps?
Indeed. I think Inara does have all the outward appearances of being lady-like, but deep down she does enjoy getting her hands a bit dirty, so to speak. It's Trash that makes me certain of this. She looooooves her role there.
Do you associate weakness, shallowness and emotional passivity with being a lady? Basically, do you consider the term "bad" to begin with, or have a fairly narrow definition? Because to me, Inara IS a lady. Self-possessed, educated, ethical, courages, caring about others, plus all that charm and wit. She's not without flaws (bouts of denial, fear of intimacy) but that doesn't disqualify her.
I think the Saffron thing is actually an exception. Mind, this was a woman who tried to kill them all, and joyfully so, which makes the entire incident rather personal. Plus, Inara's part isn't exactly the fist-fighting, hair-pulling kind. She holds a gun, is a little smug (rightfully so, outfoxing Saffron is a thing to be proud of) and pushes a button.
Sure, there's a smidge of petty joy involved there, but we already know Inara has a sense of humor and occasionally enjoys smugness. That may not be "ladylike" in the way a strict governess might interpret, but it doesn't imply that Inara enjoys getting her hands actually dirty.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Thank you for sharing, GillianRose!
Quote:
Originally posted by GillianRose:
I keep coming back to Inara's behavior concerning River, from the beginning, but most especially in the BDM. Brave, as I said before; also, consistently nurturing and tolerant, and very adult. Inara acts as one who has clearly defined, deeply felt moral standards and obligations regarding a child in her care. I think that comes from being loved and cared for, day after day, by a woman that she loved - and, importantly - admired very much.
Yes, that.
Quote:
Maybe they weren't congruent as far as temperment; maybe Inara and her mother didn't understand each other very easily, that may be a reason for the reserve, the emotional caution that is so much a part of her.
I think she had to grow up too fast, was among adults a lot. I keep picturing her mother as impaired in some way. Deafness was a theory of mine once, followed by sudden death, or slowly dying from a certain point on. Something that would both develop Inara's emotional self-control, her ability to attune to others, her spirituality and her taking refuge in idealised fantasies. Taking refuge by leaving, in general, really.
Quote:
I also think about the maternal aspect of Inara when I watch her very first conversation with Simon, about the immunization packets and Simon's behavior after Dobson shoots Kaylee. She is gentle with him in word and manner, but she doesn't let him off automatically. I hear a clear moral challenge in her tone when she explains how dear Kaylee is to all of them. I see it in her face when she waits, quietly, while he stammers out his miserable reply. Then she very quickly reads him as sincere, and offers him honest empathy. It's very intriguing to me, as I think about it, what she reveals to him when she describes herself as "lost in the woods" along with everyone else. Hmmm. So very personal. That bears more cogitatin'.
That's well-described, and one of the crucial scenes in introducing her. That ability and also compulsion to "read" others and coax out both information and perhaps things they need to voice in order to deal with a situation. Just like with Book later, she probably cannot not try to help.
Quote:
And, I don't necessarily think Inara had an absentee or unknown father growing up. I don't want to make the assumption that if Inara's mother was a Companion or retired Companion, she couldn't have had a stable relationship with the father of her children. I don't think her family is healthy and whole when we meet her, but there are so, so many ways for a family to fall apart, so many ways for hearts to get broken that have nothing to do with Companioning. Especially in times of political unrest and war.
I'm not making that assumption based in Inara's mother's possible profession, actually. I have no feelings about whether she was one or not, other than that there was no pressure for Inara to follow in her footsteps. The absent father thing, for me, is more based in Inara herself. Actually similarly to Mal, in how they deal with male authority figures or men in general.
I don't think her father was a negative figure, but I don't see him as a strong influence at all.
Definitely agreeing about the Companions and relationships, though. And about the many ways families can crumble.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Okay, I rewatched the store scene on DVD.
To me it seems, like Kaylee still is entirely genuine in defending the carving, keeps her eyes on it, doesn't ironically smile when stating she likes it or starting up with the longing, but toward the end of her explanation, I think she breaks into this grin, partly because of enthusiasm, partly because the sadly funny aspect of "longing to see a swan" catches up with her. Inara starts laughing because of Kaylee's enthusiasm.
On another level, I really like this scene because of the symbolism. Kaylee often considers herself the ugly duckling, has insecurity issues about Simon's world, longs for pretty things like that layercake dress. "Longing to see (or be) a swan" is a big aspect of her.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I agree with your read on that little scene, I think Kaylee liked the knick-knacks. And, no one will convince me she did not wheedle at least one bobble-headed geisha doll out of her Captain :)
I'll rewatch Inara's glance at Simon before she and Kaylee walk out, but if memory serves, she is decidedly NOT empathetic with him at that moment. Her expression doesn't lessen his dismay, as I recall, and it's not intended to.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I really like the idea of charity work done by the Guild, as well as the idea that the children get moved on to careers with a few very select ones joining the Guild. I can see that working really nicely.
Originally posted by Bytemite:
...take whatever children they can. For charity, like you said, and because of the spiritual side of the guild. But they would always, always take the orphans of companions, because that would be what the orphanages were originally set up for.
Quote:This, on the other hand, seems highly unlikely. If dating is complicated for a working Companion, child bearing must be beyond complicated. I very much doubt that it is allowed. As for accidents, I would think that Companions have hella good birth control while they're employed by the Guild.
In the event that a companion dies with children and no one to look after them, guaranteed Guild care would be kind of a perk. There might even be some kind of day care component in there too, for the busy practicing companion mother.
So they must only have children when they leave the Guild and take on life partners. At that point they would certainly be wealthy and savvy enough to have wills, same as any other couple with children. I just don't see that there would be a large group of orphaned Companion offspring needed an orphanage.
Quote:You've certainly got a plan. Hey, go for it! Write it up.
But no, I don't see active recruiting of companions out of the program or coercion or brainwashing involved... Unless the child expresses an interest in joining the guild and receiving training. Otherwise, I picture them receiving a general Alliance sanctioned education until they're 12, and receiving scholarship and support to go into whatever programs at the Academy they choose. Hopefully not any of the ones involving surgery, but I get the impression that not all of the curriculum at the Academy involves violations of human rights. River and whoever her classmates were seem to have been special cases.
Quote:Off topic again.
Heh heh, that was one of the few times where I wasn't bringing up the Mal/Inara dynamic. :) I was just explaining how Inara isn't a snob, and why that reflects on her background. The specific example just happened to involve Mal.
My point is this: you said that Inara "seems very at home in an old trampy freighter", as opposed to Simon who "is often NOT comfortable (at least at first)", and "that suggests she may have come from a different social class than Simon."
I'm saying that there is less difference between them then you are suggesting. Think about that "at least at first" part in regards to what I posted above. Can you see my point?
Quote:Have you listened to the commentary by Jane Espenson?
I actually think Inara was very comfortable at least until the fight broke out, which is more an example of Mal's issues than it is an example of normal lower class life. Afterwards, during the fight... I don't know. Clearly she was nervous when the fight started and when they made their get-away. She didn't ACT happy then, I admit, maybe because it was getting too dangerous. But when Mal first steals the money off the slavers, I have a hard time reading her.
So - Inara didn't act happy because it was getting too dangerous? Is that the action of a woman who gets off on danger and misbehavior?
Quote:Not really. First, she does let Mal know when she approves of him. Even about sleeping with Nandi. She wouldn't hide it from him if she li
There are rare times she approves of some of Mal's darker behaviour, like when he shoots Dobson. But other times, like when he catches the kid who picks his pocket in the Message, she just shakes her head in disapproval. There's a lot of contradiction in her, her "Robin Hood" references and what not.
In fact... Now that I think of it, do you think that may be a reflection of how Mal treats her profession? Disapproving face-to-face, but when the other is out of earshot, suddenly the other's job is "honest work" or "noble?"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
No. Not Zoe in a dress with perfume. Guns aren't her thing, first of all, and second, unlike Zoe, who fights because it's a necessary part of her life (or so Zoe thinks), Inara would fight only for defense reasons, either herself or people she cares about. Zoe, on the other hand, picks up the fights that Mal starts, and will go on the aggressive for whatever needs doing to get the job done/win the day. In a fight with Zoe, Zoe would win; Inara would know that, and try to talk her way out of it.
Similarly, River would probably only tap into the government training she hates and is terrified of only to protect her "family," but is on an entirely different level of skill than most the people in the 'verse.
I don't think jackwabbit's fic was meant to illustrate a woman who likes violence, who likes to hit people or who is sadistic. Jackwabbit even SAID that wasn't the point. The fic is about a little girl, who gets very mad at a smug little boy, hits the little boy, and is satisfied when the little boy isn't so smug anymore. The fic goes ON to say that she's taught herself restraint, and also how to do that with WORDS. But I think now and then, like when she slapped Mal in the train job, she goes back to that little girl again.
I do think there's a more playful, mischievous side of her that we haven't seen much of. I think we see glimpses of it, but in the first season, she's still keeping that very close, still under the veneer. I think in later seasons, that would have been allowed to come out more. But that's what I mean when I say she likes being bad sometimes. It's not a dark kind of bad, like when Mal is pissed off, or a Jayne kind of bad reveling in violence. It's her not being a perfect Saint Mary. She enjoys when irony/karma/justice bites someone in the ass and they get taught a lesson, and she likes being the instrument of that irony/karma/justice. She also takes great pleasure in outfoxing someone, like when she one-ups Mal. She's okay with breaking the rules so long as it's to get at someone who deserves it, and she'll even taunt someone she's set down a few pegs.
And I think she's a little more tolerant about Mal's profession than she lets on when she's face to face with him.
Quote:
This, on the other hand, seems highly unlikely. If dating is complicated for a working Companion, child bearing must be beyond complicated. I very much doubt that it is allowed. As for accidents, I would think that Companions have hella good birth control while they're employed by the Guild.
So they must only have children when they leave the Guild and take on life partners. At that point they would certainly be wealthy and savvy enough to have wills, same as any other couple with children. I just don't see that there would be a large group of orphaned Companion offspring needed an orphanage.
And I think there's a lot of clients who could turn out to be insensitive bastards or playboys, who might be all flattery, but after having a companion in a long term contract for a while, might decide to cheat, or dismiss the companion and children that they told the companion they wanted, or divorce their retired companion wife/husband, who then wants to take up their career again... Heck, there's a LOT of things that could happen. So a companion should just drop their career, just because they had kids and someone they THOUGHT loved them turned out to be a total bitch/prick? Or what if the companion wanted to be a single parent?
As for orphans, however carefully the Guild might try to protect the companion parents, well, their careers INVITE jealousy. I suspect there isn't a single companion who hasn't been in some really scary situations. And what about unexpected accidents, or medical conditions?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Okay, I rewatched the store scene on DVD.
To me it seems, like Kaylee still is entirely genuine in defending the carving, keeps her eyes on it, doesn't ironically smile when stating she likes it or starting up with the longing, but toward the end of her explanation, I think she breaks into this grin, partly because of enthusiasm, partly because the sadly funny aspect of "longing to see a swan" catches up with her. Inara starts laughing because of Kaylee's enthusiasm.
On another level, I really like this scene because of the symbolism. Kaylee often considers herself the ugly duckling, has insecurity issues about Simon's world, longs for pretty things like that layercake dress. "Longing to see (or be) a swan" is a big aspect of her.
Yeah, I can agree with that assessment.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:How to vent her anger by hurting people with words? Tearing them down? Really? When does Inara do that? Once she calls Mal a petty thief, but she's instantly sorry.
Originally posted by Bytemite:
The fic goes ON to say that she's taught herself restraint, and also how to do that with WORDS.
Sorry, I just can't see a child who drew blood like that fic-child turning into Inara. Inara's instinct is not *ever* violence or harm. She slapped Mal to stop him from talking and blowing her plan. Sure, she saw the humor in it later, but humor was not why she did it. And back to Saffron - Inara did the barest minimum to avoid the attack. She likely had the training to do more, to stop Saffron, but she didn't even try.
Again, no one on this thread is arguing that Inara can't defend herself. (Can you please just acknowledge that we agree on this? You don't need to convince me of it. Four heaven's sake, three years ago I posted a chapter where Inara played weakling then beat the shit out of a bad guy!)
Quote:Total agreement as to her playfulness. I haven't seen mischievous though. Where did you see that? Specific examples of Inara breaking rules just for the sake of rule breaking, or enjoying being bad purely for the sake of being bad. I still don't see it.
I do think there's a more playful, mischievous side of her that we haven't seen much of.
But here we are getting caught up in a small detail again, and missing the fact that we largely agree. Look, I'm the biggest fan of the idea of a "true" Inara who is quite different than the smooth polished Companion we see most of the time. I'm posted about that quite a lot, and I've quite explicitly written her that way in my fics.
I've also written a sort of similar background for her as to what you're suggesting: a mother who was once wealthy but married a poor man, and the family got poorer as Inara grew up. And the mother wasn't a real good mother. I even have Inara as a bit of a street urchin for a time. This is all to say: it's ok, I agree with you in most respects! I really do.
But as I try to pin down exactly far you mean to go with this "rebellious Inara" idea, I'm finding it hard. You seem to be shifting the lines on the things I don't agree with. Specifically:
"She seems very at home in an old trampy freighter, and in a low-class dive..."
And
"Lastly, sometimes I wonder if she doesn't enjoy some of the thrill and adventure of the crew's law-breaking. Like at the end of Trash, she loved that, and I also wonder if she didn't enjoy it in Shindig when Mal basically mugs the slavers."
I just don't see specific examples of this in the canon material.
Quote:Whoa. Since when did Companions bear children for clients? I would think this very strictly verboten!
And I think there's a lot of clients who could turn out to be insensitive bastards or playboys, who might be all flattery, but after having a companion in a long term contract for a while, might decide to cheat, or dismiss the companion and children that they told the companion they wanted,
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME