Palin resigning as Alaska governor
POSTED BY: Penguin
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 01:07
VIEWED: 8685
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WASILLA, Alaska (AP) — Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin surprised supporters Friday and announced she is resigning from office at the end of the month without explaining why she plans to step down — throwing into question whether she would seek a run for the White House in 2012.
The news rattles a Republican Party plagued with setbacks in recent weeks, including extramarital affairs disclosed by two other 2012 presidential prospects, Nevada Sen. John Ensign and South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford.
Palin hastily called a news conference Friday morning at her home in suburban Wasilla, giving such short notice that only a few reporters actually made it to the announcement. Security blocked late-arriving media outside her home, and her spokesman, Dave Murrow, finally emerged to confirm that Palin will step down July 26. He refused to give details about the governor's future plans.
The former Republican vice presidential candidate said she had been considering leaving office since she decided not to run for re-election.
"Many just accept that lame duck status, and they hit that road. They draw a paycheck. They kind of milk it. And I'm not going to put Alaskans through that," Palin said.
Palin spokesman David Murrow said the governor didn't say anything to him about this being her "political finale." Murrow said he interpreted Palin's comment about working outside government as reflecting her current job only.
"She's looking forward to serving the public outside the governor's chair," he said.
Political analyst Larry Sabato, in Charlottesville, Va., said Palin's announcement left many wondering what her plans were.
"It's absolutely bizarre, and I think it eliminates her from serious consideration for the presidency in 2012," he said.
Palin hinted that she had a bigger role in mind, saying she wanted to make a "positive change outside government." But she kept supporters in suspense, promising later Friday on Twitter: "We'll soon attach info on decision to not seek re-election ... this is in Alaska's best interest, my family's happy ... it is good. Stay tuned."
Jerry McBeath, a veteran political science professor at the University of Alaska Fairbanks, called the pending resignation a "smart move," both for Palin and the state.
"Alaska is an isolated stage from which to operate if you want to figure in American national politics. I don't know what she has in mind, some TV show or some national radio show. There are opportunities for her, I'm sure."
"After all, Rush Limbaugh is getting old, and cranky, and the airwaves and the videowaves would benefit form a new present. She certainly is photogenic, and that is her area of experience. So I would say it's a response to opportunity instead of 'getting out before they get you,'" he said.
As for the state, he said Palin's departure will reduce the distractions and return Alaska to normal politics.
Palin said her family weighed heavily in her decision.
"This decision has been in the works for a while. This decision comes after much consideration, prayer and consideration," she said. "Finally, I polled the most important people in my life, my kids, where the count was unanimous. Well, in response to asking, 'Hey, you want me to make a positive difference and fight for all our children's future from outside the governor's office?' It was four yeses and one 'Hell, yeah!" And the hell, yeah sealed it."
Palin's decision not to seek re-election was a familiar one for a potential presidential candidate. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney chose not to seek another term as he geared up for an unsuccessful 2008 presidential bid. Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty has announced he won't seek another term, giving him plenty of free time ahead of a potential 2012 bid.
And Alaska's remote location seemed prohibitive for her to visit key early states such as Iowa, New Hampshire or South Carolina. She would lose at least a day for travel on each trip, while her competitors could make day trips to Des Moines, Manchester or Columbia to drive news.
By exiting the go
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Amerika loves quitters. That's what the Founding Fathers were, when they shot Chinese fireworks on the 4th of July and got arrested for DUI.
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She's not retreating, she advancing in the opposite direction.
LOL 
Ya gotta love her.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
She's not retreating, she advancing in the opposite direction.
LOL
Ya gotta love her.
In the words of our dearly departed Shepherd..."No, I don't."
King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa
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King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa
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You KNOW someone instructed her in the art of knowing how much she could never be president. I agree with the rumours that she thinks she's gonna be the next Rush Limbo.
Somewhere, a moose is laughing.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Ya gotta love her.
GILF?
No mention that its her hubbie who's the real governor. Brilliant idea. No background check.
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Amerika loves quitters. That's what the Founding Fathers were, when they shot Chinese fireworks on the 4th of July and got arrested for DUI.
Fourth of July was cancelled this year in Tennessee, due to the economic Depression.
Taxpayer funded Chinese fireworks, that is. It's a crime to own fireworks here.
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NeoCon Browncoats are too saddened by this to even talk about it.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Looks like Dave Letterman is going to get the last laugh. In his monolog last night, he reported that Palin is resigning. Then he shrugged a bit, looked at the camera, smirked and said, "Is it something I said?"
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I agree with the rumours that she thinks she's gonna be the next Rush Limbo.
There are a lot of possibilities.
Since Rush's huge contract runs another five years...this isn't one of them. If she does media it will be a talk show or Fox News show like Mike Huckabee.
Is that really a bad move? Former Republican Congressman John Kasich, best known for crafting the Republican's economic policy that lead to the growth and surplus of the late 1990's, left Congress some years back (before the disasterous banking policy changes at the end of the Clinton administration). He went on to host 'From the Heartland with John Kasich' on FoxNews. Now he is the leading contender to be the next Governor of Ohio.
Then there is the Nixon example. "You wont have Richard Nixon to kick around anymore" became "I, Richard Nixon do solomnly swear" about six years later.
As Governor she was facing hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees defending the fivilous charges leveled against her by liberal attack groups. This family was not wealthy, unlike most of America's political aristocracy. At the same time her administration had accomplished all of its goals and was being prevented by those same groups from going further.
This allows her to sell her book, go on the lecture circuit, and do a show...all of which gives her millions of income. Its unlikely she'll be able to mount a successful Presidential campaign. But she could still serve very well as symbolic party standard bearer for a few years. That leaves her available for a cabnet post should we retake the White House in 2012 or perhaps she could challenge Alaska's Democratic Senator when he's up for reelection in five years (which would give her a platform for a 2016 Presidential run).
Edited to add: I note for the record, she's actually done this before. Its a proven strategy that took her from an adminstrative position to the Governor's office. In 2002, she lost the Lt. Governor's election. She resigned from the Alaska Oil and Natural Gas Conservation Commission in 2004 and was elected Governor in 2006 beating the incumbent Governor she lost to in 2002. Perhaps there's more to this then most folks think.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
That leaves her available for a cabnet post should we retake the White House in 2012.
You mean the Kitchen Cabinet, barefoot and pregnant with grandbabies.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Is that really a bad move? Former Republican Congressman John Kasich, best known for crafting the Republican's economic policy that lead to the growth and surplus of the late 1990's...
In Reagan's own words, "Well... there you go again." OF COURSE all of the good that happened under Clinton's leadership was all due to "trickle-down" from the Reagan years. Just as any BAD that happened during the Clinton era was completely the result of his own policies...
Quote:
...left Congress some years back (before the disasterous banking policy changes at the end of the Clinton administration).
You mean the banking changes that were tacked on at midnight on December 20th by Phil Gramm? Those banking changes? The ones that included the infamous "Enron Loophole"?
Quote:
He went on to host 'From the Heartland with John Kasich' on FoxNews. Now he is the leading contender to be the next Governor of Ohio.
Never heard of him.
Quote:
Then there is the Nixon example. "You wont have Richard Nixon to kick around anymore" became "I, Richard Nixon do solomnly swear" about six years later.
Boy, look how wonderfully THAT turned out for the nation! If that's the whole Palin strategy - she's hoping to "pull a Nixon" - then fates help us all.
Quote:
As Governor she was facing hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees defending the fivilous charges leveled against her by liberal attack groups.
"Fivilous"? If you mean "frivolous", then that's cute. And when you say "liberal attack groups", do you mean liberal attack groups like Zane Henning, the conservative government watchdog who filed an ethics complaint alleging that Palin billed the state for her per diem while living at her house, and pocketed the cash? THAT "liberal attack group? Is that who you mean?
Quote:
This family was not wealthy, unlike most of America's political aristocracy. At the same time her administration had accomplished all of its goals and was being prevented by those same groups from going further.
Can you name some of those goals? I know one of her "goals" was vetoing economic stimulus money - a veto which according to sources has a 100% chance of being over-ridden.
Quote:
This allows her to sell her book, go on the lecture circuit, and do a show...all of which gives her millions of income. Its unlikely she'll be able to mount a successful Presidential campaign. But she could still serve very well as symbolic party standard bearer for a few years.
Standard bearer? What's the standard? "When the going gets tough, the tough... QUIT?" Is that the standard the GOP wants to run under?
Quote:
That leaves her available for a cabnet post should we retake the White House in 2012 or perhaps she could challenge Alaska's Democratic Senator when he's up for reelection in five years (which would give her a platform for a 2016 Presidential run).
If she doesn't quit and throw a hissy-fit first, that is...
Quote:
I note for the record, she's actually done this before. Its a proven strategy that took her from an adminstrative position to the Governor's office.
Yes, apparently Alaskans, for all their "tough-guy and -gal" image, really love a quitter. It's probably why so many of them, including Palin's husband, embrace secession. There's something about quitting that makes them feel like real "fighters" who "love a challenge".
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
"Fivilous"? If you mean "frivolous", then that's cute. And when you say "liberal attack groups", do you mean liberal attack groups like Zane Henning, the conservative government watchdog who filed an ethics complaint alleging that Palin billed the state for her per diem while living at her house, and pocketed the cash? THAT "liberal attack group? Is that who you mean?
Okay, Mr. Smartypants. I looked this one up and found this:
http://www.adn.com/palin/story/693695.html
And I'll highlight this little nugget for ya:
Quote:
"Last fall we raised questions about longstanding practices within the Department of Administration regarding tax treatment of per diem payments," Kreitzer wrote in an exchange of e-mails over the past few days with the Daily News.
"At the Governor's request, we reviewed the situation to determine whether we were in full compliance with the pertinent Internal Revenue Service regulations," Kreitzer wrote. "As a result of this review, we determined that per diem needs to be treated as income, requiring a revision of W-2 forms for any affected employees."
So tell me . . . if it's such a big, secretive deal as you imply . . . why would SHE request for it to be looked into to make sure it's being handled correctly? Hmmmmmm??? Sounds to me like she's been pretty upfront about it.
This guy's first lawsuit was thrown out and so will this one, more than likely. So tell me . . . frivolous or not? And who has to pay for the legal fees to get it cleared up. Surely not this guy, but Palin. And if people like him are going to keep making up these charges against her, then how much more can she actually accomplish with the time she has left?
Quote:
Standard bearer? What's the standard? "When the going gets tough, the tough... QUIT?" Is that the standard the GOP wants to run under?
THIS I find more than a little humorous. You folks have been saying that she's bringing all of the attacks on herself and her family by putting everyone out in the public eye. Now that she's stepping down and one of the reasons is just that - to take them out of the public eye and thus away from the constant personal attacks - you guys STILL laugh and call her names. Personally, I don't really know that I agree with her decision, but I'm okay with it (not that my opinion really matters). I respect it. Especially if she's keeping her family's wellfare in mind. But if she wants to go back to private life, she needs to back away from interviews for a little bit. THAT much I will agree with you on.
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
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Tell me - has anyone filed a lawsuit yet demanding Palin prove that she was born in the U.S.?
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Nope. But then again, family members from other countries haven't said they were present at her birth . . . IN those other countries.
I tell ya, if his family would just watch what they say a little more closely . . . heck, even KENYA needs to be more careful ( http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=82060) . . . then that wouldn't be such a huge issue.
Knowhudimean, Vern?
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Is that really a bad move? Former Republican Congressman John Kasich, best known for crafting the Republican's economic policy that lead to the growth and surplus of the late 1990's...
In Reagan's own words, "Well... there you go again." OF COURSE all of the good that happened under Clinton's leadership was all due to "trickle-down" from the Reagan years. Just as any BAD that happened during the Clinton era was completely the result of his own policies...
Your mixing decades. Kasich made his way into the leadership during the 1994 Republican revolution. He was the guy that sat down and crafted the economic policies that forced Clinton into a tax-cutting, budget-balancing program in 1995-1999.
BTW, I like Kasich, he'll make a great governor...but his show sucked. Huck's is better, but clearly neither of them were made for such a format. At least Huck's got good music.
Quote:Quote:
He went on to host 'From the Heartland with John Kasich' on FoxNews. Now he is the leading contender to be the next Governor of Ohio.
Never heard of him.
Why would you? His show was on Saturday nights. In Congress he was part of the Republican Committee leadership...I can't name more then two Committee Chairpersons in the House and I pay attention. Hmmm...Rangel, Frank, and the dude on trial?
Quote:Quote:
Then there is the Nixon example. "You wont have Richard Nixon to kick around anymore" became "I, Richard Nixon do solomnly swear" about six years later.
Boy, look how wonderfully THAT turned out for the nation! If that's the whole Palin strategy - she's hoping to "pull a Nixon" - then fates help us all.
Would you prefer a Kennedy example? I can think of two. How about Marion Barry? He left politics for a while, then came back, now he's leaving again.
The point is leaving office, even under a cloud, is not always fatal to a career.
Quote:Quote:
As Governor she was facing hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees defending the fivilous charges leveled against her by liberal attack groups.
"Fivilous"? If you mean "frivolous", then that's cute.
I say frivilous because they have ALL been found to be without merit. Somebody saw a logo on her jacket, filed an ethics complaint that cost the state money to investigate and Palin money to defend...one of hundreds of examples all since August of 2008...hmmm...August of last year...why does that seem familiar? Oh...thats when the Left decided to destroy her and her family.
Quote:Quote:
This family was not wealthy, unlike most of America's political aristocracy. At the same time her administration had accomplished all of its goals and was being prevented by those same groups from going further.
Can you name some of those goals?
Yes, but I'll refer you to her statement since she did a better job of it. She ran on a platform and accomplished every promise she made.
Quote:Quote:
This allows her to sell her book, go on the lecture circuit, and do a show...all of which gives her millions of income. Its unlikely she'll be able to mount a successful Presidential campaign. But she could still serve very well as symbolic party standard bearer for a few years.
Standard bearer? What's the standard? "When the going gets tough, the tough... QUIT?" Is that the standard the GOP wants to run under?
She could speak about that, I'd like to hear her explain it and her concept of teamwork. Nice basketball analogy she used in her speech.
Or she could talk about values, life, energy policy, fiscal responsibility, elimination of govt corruption on both sides, education, fishing, moose hunting, special needs kids, enviromental policy, the weather, ice hockey, David Letterman, loving the military, faith, family, strong defense, the war on terror...really just about anything cause unlike most Republicans, s
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Tell me - has anyone filed a lawsuit yet demanding Palin prove that she was born in the U.S.?
Yes, the same people that claim that Malia Obama is actually Sasha Obama's mother and then make fun of Malia on talk shows.
I note for the record that I've never seen a birth certificate for any elected official. In fact, I'm pretty sure Joe Bidden was never born...he evolved from John Kerry's original hair.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
As for quiting...I seem to recall a certain Senator from Illinois quiting his job and walking out because he didn't feel like doing it any more. He had a pretty good reason. So did Palin.
She was just elected President of the United States? How did I miss that?!
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
I say frivilous because they have ALL been found to be without merit.
ALL? I thought she was found to have acted improperly in firing the guy who wouldn't fire her ex brother-in-law.
By the way, how much did it cost O.J. to "prove" that the murder charges were "without merit"? I mean, wasn't that just the cops trying to destroy his life?
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:Don't be so hard on Hero's fantasy girl.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
There's something about quitting that makes them feel like real "fighters" who "love a challenge".
The laughing Chrisisall
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He's hard enough on her himself.
OK - I can't believe I just typed that.
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Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Tell me - has anyone filed a lawsuit yet demanding Palin prove that she was born in the U.S.?
Yes, the same people that claim that Malia Obama is actually Sasha Obama's mother and then make fun of Malia on talk shows.
I note for the record that I've never seen a birth certificate for any elected official. In fact, I'm pretty sure Joe Bidden was never born...he evolved from John Kerry's original hair.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
Okay, were there actually any people claiming that Bristol was really Willow's mother, or are you just typing out your ass?
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
He's hard enough on her himself.
OK - I can't believe I just typed that.
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Silence is consent.
HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!!
I kinda can't believe you just typed that, either.
Good to see you around, just the same.
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Bad Rue!
The laughing Chrisisall
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I'm sure Palin's rumored book will be a bestseller. What would make it a HUGE bestseller would be if they only released it as an audiobook, with her reading it. Or have her and Dubya share the reading-out-loud duties!
Hell, *I* would buy THAT book, just for the comedic value!
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Quote:
Would you prefer a Kennedy example? I can think of two.
So you're saying she's going to be assassinated?
Wow, you're even harder on quitters than I thought!
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RUE:
Touche, dudette.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Tell me - has anyone filed a lawsuit yet demanding Palin prove that she was born in the U.S.?
Yes, the same people that claim that Malia Obama is actually Sasha Obama's mother and then make fun of Malia on talk shows.
I note for the record that I've never seen a birth certificate for any elected official. In fact, I'm pretty sure Joe Bidden was never born...he evolved from John Kerry's original hair.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
Okay, were there actually any people claiming that Bristol was really Willow's mother, or are you just typing out your ass?
I think Hero's referring to the fervor on the Left when Bristol was seen holding her BABY BROTHER and the Left ASSUMED it was her first child and she was pregnant with her second. The Left-wing blogs had a field day with that little bit of non-truth.
Or are you just having a brain fart?
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
As for quiting...I seem to recall a certain Senator from Illinois quiting his job and walking out because he didn't feel like doing it any more. He had a pretty good reason. So did Palin.
She was just elected President of the United States? How did I miss that?!
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
I think you missed entirely that the man you voted into office didn't finish his TWO previous jobs before moving on to his current one.
Curious, that.
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Tell me - has anyone filed a lawsuit yet demanding Palin prove that she was born in the U.S.?
Yes, the same people that claim that Malia Obama is actually Sasha Obama's mother and then make fun of Malia on talk shows.
I note for the record that I've never seen a birth certificate for any elected official. In fact, I'm pretty sure Joe Bidden was never born...he evolved from John Kerry's original hair.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
Okay, were there actually any people claiming that Bristol was really Willow's mother, or are you just typing out your ass?
I think Hero's referring to the fervor on the Left when Bristol was seen holding her BABY BROTHER and the Left ASSUMED it was her first child and she was pregnant with her second. The Left-wing blogs had a field day with that little bit of non-truth.
Or are you just having a brain fart?
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
Sorry - I tend to be *a little* to the left myself, and I don't recall anyone seriously making that claim. I guess when you say "the fervor on the left", you're putting PirateNews and his ilk firmly in the "biased liberal left-wing mainstream media" camp, eh?
I never did hear any talk shows making fun of Bristol for being Trig's or Trak's or Tron's mother. I heard them making fun of the baby's MOTHER, but that would be Sarah Palin, wouldn't it? Aren't YOU having a brainfart trying to connect the two?
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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I just remember there was a flury of assumptions on left-wing blogs (meant "blogs", not the actual LWM - sorry for the confusion there) when Bristol was shown holding her baby brother. It was assumed that was HER baby and she was pregnant with a second baby.
I mean . . . I clearly remember hearing THAT reported. The flurry on the blogs, at least.
**EDIT** Oh and I don't know WHAT I'd classify PN as . . . He's a bit too whacky for either side to take seriously, dontcha think?
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
As for quiting...I seem to recall a certain Senator from Illinois quiting his job and walking out because he didn't feel like doing it any more. He had a pretty good reason. So did Palin.
She was just elected President of the United States? How did I miss that?!
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
I think you missed entirely that the man you voted into office didn't finish his TWO previous jobs before moving on to his current one.
Curious, that.
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
And I think YOU missed entirely that one generally doesn't quit their current job in such a situation until and unless they win the election of the job they're trying to move up to.
Curious, that. Did you make that omission on purpose, or do you really not see the difference?
Obama quit his two previous jobs AFTER being elected to higher office. He DIDN'T quit those jobs and walk out after losing elections. See, in politics - and Senator McCain, will back me up on this, I'm sure, as will former President Bush - you keep your day job while running for higher office, and if you win that higher office, THEN you leave your day job.
And Palin's complaint that she's quitting because she's a lame duck doesn't fly, either. By that rationale, Bush should have quit the day after the election in 2004, since he was a lame duck at that point. Furthermore, Palin was only a lame duck because she made herself one! SHE was the one who leaked the news that she wasn't going to run for reelection, and now she wants us to go along with her not wanting to do the job she was elected to do.
As for her not being able to do the job with all the press around, why didn't she quit back in August of 2008, then?
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
As for quiting...I seem to recall a certain Senator from Illinois quiting his job and walking out because he didn't feel like doing it any more. He had a pretty good reason. So did Palin.
She was just elected President of the United States? How did I miss that?!
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
I think you missed entirely that the man you voted into office didn't finish his TWO previous jobs before moving on to his current one.
Curious, that.
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
And I think YOU missed entirely that one generally doesn't quit their current job in such a situation until and unless they win the election of the job they're trying to move up to.
Curious, that. Did you make that omission on purpose, or do you really not see the difference?
Obama quit his two previous jobs AFTER being elected to higher office. He DIDN'T quit those jobs and walk out after losing elections. See, in politics - and Senator McCain, will back me up on this, I'm sure, as will former President Bush - you keep your day job while running for higher office, and if you win that higher office, THEN you leave your day job.
And Palin's complaint that she's quitting because she's a lame duck doesn't fly, either. By that rationale, Bush should have quit the day after the election in 2004, since he was a lame duck at that point. Furthermore, Palin was only a lame duck because she made herself one! SHE was the one who leaked the news that she wasn't going to run for reelection, and now she wants us to go along with her not wanting to do the job she was elected to do.
As for her not being able to do the job with all the press around, why didn't she quit back in August of 2008, then?
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
At least you're not arguing that he DIDN'T quit.
You're just arguing over WHY.One quit to move on to supposedly bigger and better things, the other quit because of what she felt was overly harassing behavior by those who opposed her.
I get what Obama was doing. But I'm just sayin' . . . he ran for one office, then basically started running for the higher office immediately afterward. How much do you think he was actually accomplishing in his "current" job while having to be on the campaign trail for the higher office? I mean . . . other than just voting "Present."
That's almost worse than quitting, if you ask me. It's running for an office on certain promises, doing the job for just a little while then ignoring those promises and your constituents to do something else entirely. It almost shows that he wasn't really thinking of public service, but serving his own interests.*********************************************
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SHE'S LYING
And while Palin described the complaints as the work of Democratic political operatives and east coast media types looking for dirt, all but one of them were filed by her constituents in Alaska. That one exception was a complaint by a DC watchdog group about her $150,000 clothing gift from RNC. It was ultimately dismissed, but it dealt with an unclear area of campaign-finance law.
The rest of the complaints were all filed by Alaskans. Four of the complaints were filed by a Republican former ally of Palin's, Andree McLeod, who turned on her because she felt Palin was cutting ethical corners, hiring cronies and using a private email account to conduct public business outside the realm of public records. Many of the complaints predated her vice presidential nomination. And at least one of the complaints was clearly justified; Palin had to pay back about $8,000 in travel expenses for her children. Another is still pending: A seemingly reasonable complaint about Palin charging the state per diem when she's living in her own house in Wasilla rather than the governor's mansion.
So the complaints didn't cost Alaska "millions," they weren't filed by outside Democratic operatives, and most of them weren't frivolous. Is Sarah Palin going to keep telling these lies on her self-pity tour? And why is so much of the media letting her get away with it?
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Another is still pending: A seemingly reasonable complaint about Palin charging the state per diem when she's living in her own house in Wasilla rather than the governor's mansion.
This just goes to show, Rue, that you're either not reading the entire thread or not bothering to click on the link I provided above which clearly shows that the issue was already looked into LAST YEAR by the state at the request of Palin herself. It was found that she owes taxes on that money, nothing else. So for this guy to be filing a suit about it SIX MONTHS after the state already investigated it is, indeed, frivolous.
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Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
At least you're not arguing that he DIDN'T quit.
One quit to move on to supposedly bigger and better things, the other quit because of what she felt was overly harassing behavior by those who opposed her.
I get what Obama was doing. But I'm just sayin' . . . he ran for one office, then basically started running for the higher office immediately afterward. How much do you think he was actually accomplishing in his "current" job while having to be on the campaign trail for the higher office?
By that logic, shouldn't Palin have quit the moment she was picked for VP during the campaign?
Or, you know, refused to campaign at all, since she was already holding an office?
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
At least you're not arguing that he DIDN'T quit.
One quit to move on to supposedly bigger and better things, the other quit because of what she felt was overly harassing behavior by those who opposed her.
I get what Obama was doing. But I'm just sayin' . . . he ran for one office, then basically started running for the higher office immediately afterward. How much do you think he was actually accomplishing in his "current" job while having to be on the campaign trail for the higher office?
By that logic, shouldn't Palin have quit the moment she was picked for VP during the campaign?
Or, you know, refused to campaign at all, since she was already holding an office?
And that arguement wouldn't hold true for Obama WHY exactly? Shouldn't he have quit his previous position the very same moment he announced his intentions to run for the higher office?
*********************************************
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"It was found that she owes taxes on that money, nothing else."
Not true. There is the question of whether the per diem payments should have been made at all (a separate question from the question about their tax-status).
And - uhm, I and probably everyone else who is non-partisan and fair-minded - noticed you had nothing to say about her OTHER numerous LIES.
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Quote:HUH??????
I think you missed entirely that the man you voted into office didn't finish his TWO previous jobs before moving on to his current one.
Anyway, Palin is just having a hissy-fit. Blaming "the media" for her difficulties is SOP ... which doesn't bear the slightest semblance to reality, as she has in fact been OUT of the national spotlight since her failed Vice Presidential bid. The FBI is NOT holding a politically-motivated witch-hunt since they are not investigating her at all. And as Rue pointed out, most of the complaints filed against her are by Alaskans... Republican Alaskans at that. And most of the criticism about her quitting is coming from Republicans too.
Quote:
... the familiar outlines were all in place and the pity party hummed in high gear: the unhinged liberal media had it in for Palin and wanted to drive her off the national stage. Liberals were smearing her. But then a funny thing happened -- scores of conservative commentators broke ranks with the "liberal media" brigade and decided Palin's political problems were of her own making.
In other words, the beloved liberal media meme completely fractured under the weight of the Palin story. The front-line, knee-jerk troops were ready and eager to lob the ever-ready accusations, but it turned out that lots of Noise Machine generals weren't buying it, and instead of blaming the liberal media for Palin's disastrous weekend showing, they blamed ... Palin.
Shocking, I know. But the maneuver left the right-wing foot soldiers completely exposed. For instance, Brent Bozell's NewsBusters whined that biased reporters on ABC, CBS, and NBC had called Palin's Friday press conference "bizarre." But as Media Matters' Jamison Foser asked, what other adjective could journalists have possibly used? "Bizarre" perfectly captured the jaw-dropping media event staged on the banks of Alaska's Lake Lucille in Wasilla. And sure enough, "bizarre" was the exact word conservative Times columnist Ross Douthat used to describe Palin's presser: But last Friday's bizarre, rambling resignation speech should take her off the political map for the duration of the Obama era.
... a pass {was given to} to conservative Fox News commentator Charles Krauthammer for calling Palin's move "erratic" and "delusional," and to Karl Rove for admitting to being "perplexed" by Palin's unorthodox "no más" move. And that wasn't the half of it from the conservative chorus:
"Giving up on an executive job a year and a half early isn't the best way to persuade voters you're ready for the more demanding rigors and scrutiny of the White House. ... Some Alaskans, including many of her admirers, can be forgiven if they conclude she bugged out when the going got rough." editorial, The Wall Street Journal; 07/07/2009
"If this is geared for her run for the presidency in 2012, it is one of the most politically tone deaf decisions that we've seen." GOP consultant Stuart Roy, ABCNews.com; 07/05/2009
"She dashed her chances of winning the 2012 nomination. ... Forget about Sarah Palin as the Republican presidential candidate in 2012 and probably ever." Fred Barnes column, The Weekly Standard; 07/05/2009
Sarah Palin is positioning herself as candidate of the newest incarnation of the KNOW NOTHING PARTY. This kind of move would rally the irrational, ignorant, knee-jerkers who constitute about 25% of the American population.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
And - uhm, I and probably everyone else who is non-partisan and fair-minded - noticed you had nothing to say about her OTHER numerous LIES.
You CAN'T be serious? YOU!?!? NON-PARTISAN!?!?!? Give up this game, Rue. Last time you and I went around on this very subject, I layed my cards out clearly on the table while you refused to play the game YOU instigated. So please . . . get over yourself. It's getting tiresome. And the fact that you pop your head in here every now and then and cry "partisanship!" while obviously ignoring your own is a joke. Ever since you and Sig decided to become not as active you have both clearly become a bit more tetchy.
I commented on what I wanted to comment on. No more, no less. And it was basically what was brought up by Kwicko. If I ignored something, then so what? He didn't make a big deal out of it (again, 'cause we have an amicable relationship). So how is that ignoring other "numerous lies" when those other lies weren't part of the discussion? The article from the Alaskan newspaper says nothing that I can recall about the state having any problems with the per diem charges. That's standard proceedure from what I can tell, they just had issues about it being taxable income. Again, this was all addressed by a request brought about from Palin.
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Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
At least you're not arguing that he DIDN'T quit.
One quit to move on to supposedly bigger and better things, the other quit because of what she felt was overly harassing behavior by those who opposed her.
I get what Obama was doing. But I'm just sayin' . . . he ran for one office, then basically started running for the higher office immediately afterward. How much do you think he was actually accomplishing in his "current" job while having to be on the campaign trail for the higher office?
By that logic, shouldn't Palin have quit the moment she was picked for VP during the campaign?
Or, you know, refused to campaign at all, since she was already holding an office?
And that arguement wouldn't hold true for Obama WHY exactly? Shouldn't he have quit his previous position the very same moment he announced his intentions to run for the higher office?
No, I'm just saying. You use Obama's "quitting" as a counter-example to Palin's, yet you ignore that she essentially did the same thing there.
Either you condemn her campaigning in the first place, or you have to stop condemning Obama on that account.
Would you not have condemned Obama for quitting his Senate seat prematurely if it had been for the same reasons Palin cites? Honestly?
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Quote:
Posted by RIPWash:
I get what Obama was doing. But I'm just sayin' . . . he ran for one office, then basically started running for the higher office immediately afterward. How much do you think he was actually accomplishing in his "current" job while having to be on the campaign trail for the higher office? I mean . . . other than just voting "Present." That's almost worse than quitting, if you ask me. It's running for an office on certain promises, doing the job for just a little while then ignoring those promises and your constituents to do something else entirely. It almost shows that he wasn't really thinking of public service, but serving his own interests.
You DO realize that what you say Obama did, is EXACTLY what Palin is now doing, only without the benefit of her actually WINNING any higher office.
Let's look at your post, and substitute her for Obama:
"She ran for one office, then basically started running for the higher office immediately afterward. How much do you think she was actually accomplishing in her "current" job while having to be on the campaign trail for the higher office? I mean . . . other than just saying "I told Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks, don'tcha know!" [which is a lie, because she most certainly DID NOT tell Congress any such thing!] That's almost worse than quitting, if you ask me. [It isn't "ALMOST" worse in her case, because she actually DID quit - and not to go serve in a higher capacity in public office.] It's running for an office on certain promises, doing the job for just a little while then ignoring those promises and your constituents to do something else entirely. It almost shows that she wasn't really thinking of public service, but serving her own interests."
Quote:
At least you're not arguing that he DIDN'T quit. You're just arguing over WHY.
WHY? Because the Constitution spells out that you can't hold two elected federal offices at the same time. Constitutionally speaking, if you win a higher (or just an other) office, you HAVE TO resign before taking the oath, or you're in breach of the law. Again I ask: What higher public office did Palin win, that she had to resign her governorship for? Did she not run on certain promises, and then reneg and break those promises for no better reason than "just because"?
Quote:
One quit to move on to supposedly bigger and better things, the other quit because of what she felt was overly harassing behavior by those who opposed her.
First, I applaud your casting of "sour grapes" on the Presidency of the United States - a position which you've fervently hoped that Sarah Palin would one day achieve herself. Now you call it "supposedly" bigger and better. That's cute.
"Overly harrassing behavior"? WHAT?! If you REALLY, honestly and firmly believe that, then you will of course agree wholeheartedly that Sarah Palin SHOULD NEVER AND COULD NEVER BE THE PRESIDENT or VICE PRESIDENT. I mean, seriously, have you SEEN or HEARD the way the Prez and VP get treated in this country? If she's not up for a little light-hearted ribbing, she'll never make it.
Does she plan on touring the country giving speeches? If so, will she be carrying her own cross? I know she likes to jump up on it every chance she gets. SHE is the one who trotted her kids out as props in the mad parade of politics. Let's hold her to her words: She says she doesn't want her family in the spotlight anymore; let's see how long she tries to keep them out of the spotlight before she starts pimping them out again.
Get down off your cross, Sarah; We need the lumber!
Mike
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
At least you're not arguing that he DIDN'T quit.
One quit to move on to supposedly bigger and better things, the other quit because of what she felt was overly harassing behavior by those who opposed her.
I get what Obama was doing. But I'm just sayin' . . . he ran for one office, then basically started running for the higher office immediately afterward. How much do you think he was actually accomplishing in his "current" job while having to be on the campaign trail for the higher office?
By that logic, shouldn't Palin have quit the moment she was picked for VP during the campaign?
Or, you know, refused to campaign at all, since she was already holding an office?
And that arguement wouldn't hold true for Obama WHY exactly? Shouldn't he have quit his previous position the very same moment he announced his intentions to run for the higher office?
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
See, now you're getting into a whole different area. SHOULD a potential candidate quit his or her job before becoming a candidate? Quite possibly. But where do you draw the line? Should George H.W. Bush have quit as VP before campaigning for the Presidency? Should Dick Cheney have had to quit Halliburton for some number of months before joining the Dubya Administration? If you're a current Senator and are picked to be Secretary of State, do you have to refuse the job because you're currently holding one? Should Dubya have even been allowed to run, seeing as he was less than halfway through his term as governor of Texas at the time?
And why stop at public office? Should YOU be allowed to apply for or interview for a higher-paying job with mroe responsibilities while you still HAVE a job? I mean, are you honestly arguing that you either have to take the job you're given and stick with it, or risk everything by quitting before you even announce that you're seeking a better job higher up the food chain?
Mike
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Seriously. I wonder if you guys even fully READ my posts sometimes
#1 I said I didn't understand why she quite or necessarily agreed with it.
#2 It was my intention to say he SHOULD have quit one office when he announced his intention to run for the other because that makes that a time of "limbo". IMHO, there's very little that can be done effectively in the office he was holding if he was out campaigning for the other office. Does that hold true for Palin? Probably so. I can't honestly hold it to one and not the other. Happy now?
#3 My "supposedly" was implying that the "bigger and better" was not a sure thing. His election TO the "bigger and better" was not certain.
#4 I said "what SHE felt to be overly harrassing behavior." Just a statement of opinion, not fact. I really have no idea how, what, where or when these attacks are coming from or how often.
Quote:
Does she plan on touring the country giving speeches? If so, will she be carrying her own cross? I know she likes to jump up on it every chance she gets. SHE is the one who trotted her kids out as props in the mad parade of politics. Let's hold her to her words: She says she doesn't want her family in the spotlight anymore; let's see how long she tries to keep them out of the spotlight before she starts pimping them out again.
That much we agree on. If she wants to stay out of the spotlight, then by all means stay out. But I also won't begrudge her return if she so choses.
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Quote:
And as Rue pointed out, most of the complaints filed against her are by Alaskans... Republican Alaskans at that. And most of the criticism about her quitting is coming from Republicans too.
Which makes it even more hilarious, because if it were PALIN doing this to other Republicans, she'd be viewed as a "maverick" for not going along with the good ol' boys club. Isn't she the one who ratted out fellow Republicans and then walked out of her previous job because of THEIR lax ethics? Tell me, wasn't she being "frivolous" in doing so?
Mike
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
At least you're not arguing that he DIDN'T quit.
One quit to move on to supposedly bigger and better things, the other quit because of what she felt was overly harassing behavior by those who opposed her.
I get what Obama was doing. But I'm just sayin' . . . he ran for one office, then basically started running for the higher office immediately afterward. How much do you think he was actually accomplishing in his "current" job while having to be on the campaign trail for the higher office?
By that logic, shouldn't Palin have quit the moment she was picked for VP during the campaign?
Or, you know, refused to campaign at all, since she was already holding an office?
And that arguement wouldn't hold true for Obama WHY exactly? Shouldn't he have quit his previous position the very same moment he announced his intentions to run for the higher office?
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
See, now you're getting into a whole different area. SHOULD a potential candidate quit his or her job before becoming a candidate? Quite possibly. But where do you draw the line? Should George H.W. Bush have quit as VP before campaigning for the Presidency? Should Dick Cheney have had to quit Halliburton for some number of months before joining the Dubya Administration? If you're a current Senator and are picked to be Secretary of State, do you have to refuse the job because you're currently holding one? Should Dubya have even been allowed to run, seeing as he was less than halfway through his term as governor of Texas at the time?
And why stop at public office? Should YOU be allowed to apply for or interview for a higher-paying job with mroe responsibilities while you still HAVE a job? I mean, are you honestly arguing that you either have to take the job you're given and stick with it, or risk everything by quitting before you even announce that you're seeking a better job higher up the food chain?
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Ya see all the gray areas we can get into? Huh?
All very valid points and I don't disagree with any particular one.
I mean, didn't John Edwards risk everything to run for VP? He didn't run TWO campaigns to try and keep his then-current Senate seat, in hopes of becoming Vice President. If he HADN'T run for VP he surely would have campaigned to keep his Senate seat.
Perhaps in the public sector, a policy of selecting an "interim" person to hold the office and perform those duties while the other is campaigning? Would that make sense?
*********************************************
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Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Seriously. I wonder if you guys even fully READ my posts sometimes
Seriously. I wonder if YOU even fully read your posts sometimes.
Quote:
#1 I said I didn't understand why she quit or necessarily agreed with it.
But then went into all sorts of rhetorical contortions trying to explain and defend it.
Quote:
#2 It was my intention to say he SHOULD have quit one office when he announced his intention to run for the other because that makes that a time of "limbo". IMHO, there's very little that can be done effectively in the office he was holding if he was out campaigning for the other office. Does that hold true for Palin? Probably so. I can't honestly hold it to one and not the other. Happy now?
Actually, I think if you'll look back at the Congressional record, you'll see lots of names you recognize attached to bills in election years. Why? Two reasons: One, they want to get their names on "important" bills to be seen "doing something", and two, once they're a
"known" figure on the national scene, OTHER politicians start lining up begging them to put their name and lustre on certain pieces of legislation, thereby lending those bills a certain gravitas or legitimacy. So in that regard, a candidate for major office is MORE effective in their currently-held lower office than someone who is just trying to keep their head down and grind out the job.
Now, that said, do you suppose Alaskan Lieutenant Governor Sean Parnell is going to run for a full term after finishing out Sarah's forshortened first term? And if he does, shouldn't he resign right now and try to campaign for the job on his own merits, rather than try to campaign for the job while ignoring the job?
Quote:
#3 My "supposedly" was implying that the "bigger and better" was not a sure thing. His election TO the "bigger and better" was not certain.
Gotcha - I read it differently. Apologies.
Quote:
If she wants to stay out of the spotlight, then by all means stay out. But I also won't begrudge her return if she so choses.
If she wants to stay out of the spotlight, and keep her kids out of it, more power to her. But she doesn't get to pick and choose WHEN she gets to use her kids as props.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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"You CAN'T be serious? YOU!?!? NON-PARTISAN!?!?!?"
I've gone out of my way to criticize Obama and Clinton (both of them).
When have you ever criticized --- oh, let's take Palin as an example ? Or McCain ? Other than a tepid - well, you know, s/he wasn't my favorite ...
***************************************************************
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Quote:Did I? I just remember (and re-read the thread, mind you) that I was throwing some barbs at Obama as a comparison. Rhetoric? Sho thang, brotha! As you would say, "Just some things to ponder." Eh?
But then went into all sorts of rhetorical contortions trying to explain and defend it.
Ah well. If I contort, then call me a pretzel.
Not to open a whole new can o' worms, but I don't know if I agree that she used her kids as props. Trig, maybe because of his having Downs Syndrome. And Bristol's situation kinda demanded attention, I won't argue with ya there, but I don't know if she used Bristol as a prop.
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I mean, didn't John Edwards risk everything to run for VP? He didn't run TWO campaigns to try and keep his then-current Senate seat, in hopes of becoming Vice President. If he HADN'T run for VP he surely would have campaigned to keep his Senate seat.
Oy... PLEASE don't try to use John Edwards as the model for how to do ANYTHING, unless he's being held up as the poster boy for how to completely undermine and fuck up a campaign and ruin one's credibility!
His situation was a bit out of the ordinary - his Senate term was up in an election year. For Obama to do the same thing, he'd have had to wait four more years. Telling him to wait until 2012 would have been like telling your friend who's just hit the lottery jackpot to NOT cash that ticket in, but rather to wait and try to win it again in four years.
Anyway, back to Palin and Obama...
So, if Palin runs for president in 2012, will you support her? Or will you remember the calls of "Inexperienced!" that so many on the right threw out against Obama? I mean, here she is, no national experience at all in any kind of elected office, and even what little STATE-level experience she had, she walked out on halfway through her first term, for no better reason than "to go fishing". Or "because of late-night so-called comics". Or because of "endless investigations".
My feeling is that there's a quid pro quo at work here. She's quitting because of ehtics investigations, all right - she's quitting to head off any DEEPER investigations which might prove rather embarrassing and potentially fatal to any future political ambitions she has. And she's already said that she'll sue anyone - including bloggers - who speculate as to why she's quitting, which can only make one wonder all the more what she's got to hide. After all, this is someone declaring herself a serial victim of defamation, the same person who herself referred to Obama as "someone who pals around with terrorists" - which is defamation of the lowest form (once again, please show me the court record of Bill Ayres conviction on "terrorism" charges).
It still strikes me as rather incongruous: the poster gal of the party that claims to be all about personal responsibility, that claims to be all about taking care of oneself, pulling oneself up by your own bootstraps, making it on your own, standing up for yourself... This is the very same woman who is now standing at the head of her party, crying "Poor me! Poor me! WAaaaaaahhhhhhhh!" and playing the victim card more often than anyone in recent memory. And her supporters are the people who called Hillary a crybaby for showing some emotion in New Hampshire a year ago. Odd, that.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"You CAN'T be serious? YOU!?!? NON-PARTISAN!?!?!?"
I've gone out of my way to criticize Obama and Clinton (both of them).
When have you ever criticized --- oh, let's take Palin as an example ? Or McCain ?
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Silence is consent.
I joined the board in February . . . after the election, so no. You didn't see anything from me against McCain or Palin during that time (the campaigns) and McCain has been insignificant since then. I DO know, however that I stated several times that he certainly was NOT my first choice for the GOP nominee.
And I don't recall seeing you saying anything against Obama in that time, so you'll have to forgive me for saying what I said, or point me to a thread where you did opine negatively toward Obama. I DO know that you never did answer MY questions in that other thread which implied your silent consent to the actions I was pointing out.
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I have criticized Obama before AND SINCE the election. In fact, I even reiterated my criticisms in a separate post TO YOU b/c you said I was partisan. Well, that was a big fat waste of my time. I'm not going to do that again. And, dude, maybe YOU should read MY posts --- eh ?
I don't deny I have a POV. But it isn't defined by party (in other words, it is NOT partisan) as your POV obviously is.
And, I certainly miss many posts. Really, I have more important things to do.
Ta ta, then. Maybe I'll catch up with the site in a few weeks.
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Quote:
And I don't recall seeing you saying anything against Obama in that time, so you'll have to forgive me for saying what I said, or point me to a thread where you did opine negatively toward Obama.
Okay, just so we're clear here, Rip...
You HAVE seen me go off on Obama, right? I mean, I'm pretty damned sure I'm fairly partisan, in that I definitely support one party over the other (while fervently wishing for a third to take over at least one of our current crop...). That said, I'm a Democrat in the sense that Will Rogers was a Democrat. He's the one who famously said, "I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."
Where I'm *NOT* "partisan" is in the "no-criticism-of-my-party-or-candidates" sense. I think the Democrats are dead wrong on most gun rights issues. I think Pelosi and Reid are absolutely the wrong people to head up the Democratic majorities in Congress. And I *KNOW* Obama is hugely wrong on torture and warrantless wiretaps, to name just two. I have a sense that he's really dragging his feet and about to screw up majorly on health care and gay rights, too. Unfortunately, nobody here can name me one single Republican candidate that was going to do a single thing on any of these issues better than Obama has. I didn't vote for him because he's perfect, but because he was the choice I was given.
Oh, and back on a purely partisan note...
When can we on the left start referring to Sarah Palin as your "messiah" or "the one" or the second coming or the anointed? I mean, isn't that what the right is viewing her as?
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:We're cool, Kick. I know where you're coming from and vice-versa. And I HAVE seen you go off on Obama. I took a test somewhere on-line and it said I was a Libertarian, so who knows? Maybe I should start attending meetings?
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Okay, just so we're clear here, Rip...
You HAVE seen me go off on Obama, right? I mean, I'm pretty damned sure I'm fairly partisan, in that I definitely support one party over the other (while fervently wishing for a third to take over at least one of our current crop...). That said, I'm a Democrat in the sense that Will Rogers was a Democrat. He's the one who famously said, "I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."
Right now the Republican Party is far from perfect, but like you I find myself agreeing more with their side of the aisle than the other. Thus my partisanship, I guess, and I make no apologies for it. I listen to Hannity and, thanks to this thread, I DO find myself disagreeing with him on some points. I didn't want McCain as the GOP nominee, I'll say that much. And next election? Who knows? I hear Bobby Jindal is doin' some good things in Louisiana.
Quote:
Where I'm *NOT* "partisan" is in the "no-criticism-of-my-party-or-candidates" sense. I think the Democrats are dead wrong on most gun rights issues. I think Pelosi and Reid are absolutely the wrong people to head up the Democratic majorities in Congress. And I *KNOW* Obama is hugely wrong on torture and warrantless wiretaps, to name just two. I have a sense that he's really dragging his feet and about to screw up majorly on health care and gay rights, too. Unfortunately, nobody here can name me one single Republican candidate that was going to do a single thing on any of these issues better than Obama has. I didn't vote for him because he's perfect, but because he was the choice I was given.
Gimme time and I'm sure I'll rant about some Republican at some point or another. Just nothing in recent memory (February) that I feel deserves a rant, I guess.
Quote:I beleive that honor was copyrighted to Obama and him alone.
Oh, and back on a purely partisan note...
When can we on the left start referring to Sarah Palin as your "messiah" or "the one" or the second coming or the anointed? I mean, isn't that what the right is viewing her as?
So . . . the answer is never. Tough noogies. *********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
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Just for comic relief...
Mark McKinnon, former policy advisor and media consultant to President George W. Bush and to Republican presidential candidate and Senator John McCain, in an interview on The Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC, referred to Sarah Palin as "crazier than an acre of snakes".
I laughed chocolate milk out my nose when he said it. I'd never heard it put quite that way before, but it damned well fits.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Just for comic relief...
Mark McKinnon, former policy advisor and media consultant to President George W. Bush and to Republican presidential candidate and Senator John McCain, in an interview on The Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC, referred to Sarah Palin as "crazier than an acre of snakes".
I laughed chocolate milk out my nose when he said it. I'd never heard it put quite that way before, but it damned well fits.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
[faux righteous indignation]
HOW DARE HE!!!!!
[faux righteous indignation]
Of course he'd call her that! It was HER fault they lost, innit?
Nothin' to do with McCain sayin' "My friends" every two minutes. Who the heck told him THAT was good strategy? The whole campaign was pretty much a shambles anyway and run very, VERY poorly, if you ask me. Especially from the media side of things. So it's THAT bozo's fault they lost!
There. My rant against a Republican. Happy now?
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
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I could be wrong, but it seems to me that most Republicans view their party and their politicians very differently than most Dems. Take Mark Sanford. He's been caught in several extramarital affairs. Going OCONUS w/o informing the Lt. Gov. or anyone else who has a right to know about his absence in order to hook up with some Argentinian cha-cha. If DEMS do half as much - as Clinton and Edwards did- they're out on a rail and in the political wilderness, with Repubs waving pitchforks and flambeaus and the Dems wringing their hands and hanging their heads.
Not so for Sanford. Or Swaggert. Or Haggard. What really matters to The Right is how much CONTRITION the miscreant shows. If he cries big tears and begs forgiveness and promises never to do it again, then he is welcomed back into the fold. Not necessarily a case of hypocrisy (altho for political strategists like Newt it is definitely so) but more like a different mind-set about what is expected.
Also, The Right seems to think that The Left looks on the leaders as The Annointed One. The only way I can account for that is projection: something The Right does and naturally assumes The Left does it too.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
If DEMS do half as much - as Clinton and Edwards did- they're out on a rail
My turn to say . . . HUH? Clinton was run out on a rail to be left in the political wilderness? Really? I recall him being rallied around, Democrats standing on the steps of Congress in protest to the vote to impeach him. He stayed in office, right? Or did I miss something? Heck, he's STILL the Democrat poster boy. Folks LOVE him despite his womanizing, so I don't see where you're coming from there.
As for Sanford, he's a boob and needs to just go away. I don't see many Repubicans standing up for him, do you? I know I sure dont stand behind his actions.
And of course it's all a matter of perspective, Sig! But I really don't recall people fauning all over someone in the GOP the way folks did to Obama. Okay MAYBE Reagan, but I cared not one whit about politics back then so can't speak intelligently to that. Obama got that nickname from the "right" because of the way he presented himself and the way others perceived him to be - the solution to all of life's problems. Why else would he have said right before the election (paraphrasing here), "Hey! I better reign up on the rhetoric because there's no possible way I can actually do everything I'm promising." Did he ACTUALLY say that? Not quite, thus the paraphrasing, but he said something quite similar.
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
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Quote:
Okay MAYBE Reagan, but I cared not one whit about politics back then so can't speak intelligently to that.
"MAYBE" Reagan? Really? I guess you don't recall that there were substantive talks about putting that putzes big ol' noggin on Mount Rushmore...
And WHY is Reagan the Chosen One for Republicans? He wasn't conservative, either fiscally or socially. He wasn't a small-government Republican. He wasn't great for the economy. He got a lot of American soldiers killed, and never for any reason at all. He made the Middle East a MORE fractious and violent place. He gets held up as the model of what an economic messiah should be, but unemployment was hugely high well into his first term. The same people who are now saying "the stimulus didn't work!" about Obama because unemployment is at 9.4% completely neglect the historical context of that number - the last time unemployment was that high, Reagan was more than two and a half years into his first term. Odd that he's remembered so fondly, for actually not accomplishing much of anything, especially when it came to the economy!
Quote:
Obama got that nickname from the "right" because of the way he presented himself and the way others perceived him to be - the solution to all of life's problems.
I take it you've never actually listened to another politician?
What nickname did McCain earn for himself for standing in front of an onrushing economic tsunami of epic proportions and declaring "the fundamentals of our economy are STRONG"? What do you call someone like that?
Quote:
Why else would he have said right before the election (paraphrasing here), "Hey! I better reign up on the rhetoric because there's no possible way I can actually do everything I'm promising." Did he ACTUALLY say that? Not quite, thus the paraphrasing, but he said something quite similar.
I think what he actually said was something about his father, Jor-El, bringing him to Earth for a particular reason...
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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As I recall, 'Clinton the other' was the Dem shoe-in candidate --- and Obama was the dark horse who came in at the nomination wire out of nowhere. In the presidential campaign Obama fought, and fought hard, against that subterranean prejudice no one talks about anymore, to be the first BLACK president of the US. That he won has as much to say about the mismanagement of the McCain campaign as anything else.
I don't recall any time when he was a foregone conclusion.
I don't recall any anointing at any time.
***************************************************************
Just a little dose of recent history to set the record straight.
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Quote:
Posted by RIPWash:
My turn to say . . . HUH? Clinton was run out on a rail to be left in the political wilderness? Really? I recall him being rallied around, Democrats standing on the steps of Congress in protest to the vote to impeach him.
So do you think Sanford should be impeached?
I know you think he should "go away" - but do you think he should be IMPEACHED?
How about John Ensign? He called for Clinton's impeachment, said if he were ever to find himself in such a situation, he hoped he'd have the courage to do the right thing and resign - and then not only slept with the wife of a staffer, but even went so far as to put their 19-year-old son on the payroll as a "policy expert" (what policy was he an expert on at 19?), AND to double her salary AT TWO DIFFERENT POSITIONS WITH TWO DIFFERENT EMPLOYERS that he oversaw - positions and salaries that ended when he stopped banging her, it should be mentioned.
Should HE be impeached?
I know you wish they'd go away; I know you hope they'd have the decency to stand by their words and convictions (Sanford was a freshman Congressman at the time of the Lewinsky scandal, and he also called for Clinton's impeachment). What I want to know is, if they won't just go away - and clearly they won't - SHOULD THEY BE IMPEACHED?
If so, why? If not, why not?
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
As I recall, 'Clinton the other' was the Dem shoe-in candidate --- and Obama was the dark horse who came in at the nomination wire out of nowhere. Obama fought, and fought hard against that subterranean prejudice no one talks about anymore, to be the first BLACK president of the US. That he won has as much to say about the mismanagement of the McCain campaign as anything else.
I don't recall any anointing at any time.
***************************************************************
Just a little dose of recent history to set the record straight.
Hell, all liberals are godless atheists anyway - we don't anoint, and we don't do "messiahs" and "chosen" anything. When will the right-wing-nuts ever get that straight in their heads? You can't call an entire portion of the population godless atheists who are launching a war on Christmas one minute, and then accuse them of anointing their candidate as a god or messiah the next minute. It just makes right-wingers look stupid. Or should I say "stupider"?
Besides, we all know only a right-wing-nut-job can be the REAL "anointed" one and messiah, right? After all, who signs their letters "Trig's Creator, Your Heavenly Father"? Sounds like someone has a god complex...
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/ensigns-parents-paid-lov
er-and-family-96000/?hp
Ensign’s Parents Paid Lover and Family $96,000
By David Stout
Sam Morris/Las Vegas Sun, via Reuters
Senator John Ensign’s parents gave almost $100,000 to his former lover and her family in April 2008, it was revealed on Thursday, as Mr. Ensign’s embarrassment over his extramarital affair seemed to deepen.
Last month, the Republican senator from Nevada held a brief news conference in Las Vegas to announce that he had an affair with a campaign staff member (later identified as Cynthia Hampton), but had ended the relationship. In addition, his office confirmed that Mr. Hampton had recently demanded money and had threatened to go public with the affair just before the senator’s admission.
But the involvement by the senator’s parents was first revealed earlier today, as other details between Mr. Hampton, who also had worked for the senator in his office, and Mr. Ensign and other colleagues have spilled out in recent days.
On Capitol Hill, Mr. Ensign told a reporter for the Sun that he had no intention of resigning. (He quit his leadership post in the Senate after initially disclosing the affair.) Ensign said today he has no plans to resign and intends to continue his work despite ongoing questions about his affair.
“I said before, I always planned on serving and working hard - working harder than I ever worked — and I’m going to continue to do that,” the senator said.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Anyway, off the topic of republicans who don't know the difference between doing the right thing and pretending to be righteous, and back to Palin ... oops - that's where we came in.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Quote:
“I said before, I always planned on serving and working hard - working harder than I ever worked — and I’m going to continue to do that,” the senator said.
I just can't help it. Does anyone think that sounds filthy, in light of the subject matter at hand? How hard WAS he working?
Also, it's being reported that he paid the woman $25,000 in "severance" after the screwing stopped and the affair ended. Sources are saying this may be a felony violation of campaign funding laws.
But, y'know... it's not like he did anything really WRONG, right?
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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'Harder than ever before' ... it does sound vaguely ... creepy.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Posted by RIPWash:
My turn to say . . . HUH? Clinton was run out on a rail to be left in the political wilderness? Really? I recall him being rallied around, Democrats standing on the steps of Congress in protest to the vote to impeach him.
So do you think Sanford should be impeached?
I know you think he should "go away" - but do you think he should be IMPEACHED?
How about John Ensign? He called for Clinton's impeachment, said if he were ever to find himself in such a situation, he hoped he'd have the courage to do the right thing and resign - and then not only slept with the wife of a staffer, but even went so far as to put their 19-year-old son on the payroll as a "policy expert" (what policy was he an expert on at 19?), AND to double her salary AT TWO DIFFERENT POSITIONS WITH TWO DIFFERENT EMPLOYERS that he oversaw - positions and salaries that ended when he stopped banging her, it should be mentioned.
Should HE be impeached?
I know you wish they'd go away; I know you hope they'd have the decency to stand by their words and convictions (Sanford was a freshman Congressman at the time of the Lewinsky scandal, and he also called for Clinton's impeachment). What I want to know is, if they won't just go away - and clearly they won't - SHOULD THEY BE IMPEACHED?
If so, why? If not, why not?
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Okay, here's the deal. The Clinton deal happened at a time I wasn't particularly paying a huge amount of attention (some, not a lot), but I think the whole impeaching thing was because he lied under oath on one of the harassment trials. Correct me if I'm wrong.
And I'm not trying to contort here, I'm really not. But THAT being the case I don't think the comparison is on even ground. If Sanford and Ensign lied under oath at some point, yes, they should be impeached. But as they have shown bad judgment (especially Sanford, leaving and not telling anyone where he was going - SHEESH! what a maroon!), then they need to step down. Yes. Absolutely. Just as Clinton should have done
[Billy Crystal "Fernando" voice]I kid. I'm a kidder.[/Billy Crystal "Fernando voice]
But SHOULD they be impeached? Good question. I'll have to look into that a little further because I'll admit to being slightly uninformed as to what the impeachment process actually entails.
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
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Quote:'zactly.
Anyway, off the topic of republicans who don't know the difference between doing the right thing and pretending to be righteous, and back to Palin ... oops - that's where we came in.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
As I recall, 'Clinton the other' was the Dem shoe-in candidate --- and Obama was the dark horse who came in at the nomination wire out of nowhere. In the presidential campaign Obama fought, and fought hard, against that subterranean prejudice no one talks about anymore, to be the first BLACK president of the US. That he won has as much to say about the mismanagement of the McCain campaign as anything else.
I don't recall any time when he was a foregone conclusion.
I don't recall any anointing at any time.
***************************************************************
Just a little dose of recent history to set the record straight.
The color of his skin did matter to me one iota. Heck, I voted for Ken Blackwell for Governor of Ohio. Not that it helped at all. LOL
But hey. I'm PROUD of our nation for seeing past the color of a man's skin and voting for someone they believed in. It was, indeed, a great moment for our country. I just disagree with the MAN. That's all.
I think the Right saw the seemingly sudden swell of support for him as rather shocking due to Mrs. Clinton being the front-runner for so long. And the STRENGTH of that support and the reactions people had to him (women fainting and such) is what started that whole "Annointed One" business. I thought it was funny. Is that a partisan statement?
But really, the election was a little strange if you think about it. And this may have been addressed before, so I apologize for re-hashing old ground. I mean, BOTH parties' nominees were not who many thought they would actually be. I don't think McCain really had THAT much support early on, or even mid-way through. I think many people thought it would go to Gulliani or Romney. And the DNC nomination was really Hillary's to lose. Am I right or wrong there?
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
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Quote:
If Sanford and Ensign lied under oath at some point, yes, they should be impeached. But as they have shown bad judgment (especially Sanford, leaving and not telling anyone where he was going - SHEESH! what a maroon!), then they need to step down.
Well, according to Sanford's past statements, "lied under a different oath - the oath to his wife." At least that's what he said when it was someone who wasn't him doing the cheating...
It's going to be interesting to see if Sanford and Ensign did indeed break the law by paying mistresses and their families, by traveling to far-off countries on the taxpayers' dime to commit adultery, etc. And if it turns out that they HAVE broken the law, it's going to be interesting to see who turns out to support them.
In retrospect, I suppose Bill Clinton's biggest mistake was either (a) agreeing to be deposed under oath, or (b) not having a sudden attack of amnesia. The former seemed to work out pretty well for Dubya ("I won't testify under oath, and you can't even take notes about what I say.") and Cheney, and the latter has worked for everyone from "Fredo" Gonzalez to Tricky Dick Nixon to Ronald Reagan. If you won't go under oath, or if you just say "I don't recall", no one can pin anything on you!
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:'zactly.
Anyway, off the topic of republicans who don't know the difference between doing the right thing and pretending to be righteous, and back to Palin ... oops - that's where we came in.
was that right thing or " right " thing ?
they are not always the same
" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "
" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson
Lets party like its 1939
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
If Sanford and Ensign lied under oath at some point, yes, they should be impeached. But as they have shown bad judgment (especially Sanford, leaving and not telling anyone where he was going - SHEESH! what a maroon!), then they need to step down.
Well, according to Sanford's past statements, "lied under a different oath - the oath to his wife." At least that's what he said when it was someone who wasn't him doing the cheating...
It's going to be interesting to see if Sanford and Ensign did indeed break the law by paying mistresses and their families, by traveling to far-off countries on the taxpayers' dime to commit adultery, etc. And if it turns out that they HAVE broken the law, it's going to be interesting to see who turns out to support them.
In retrospect, I suppose Bill Clinton's biggest mistake was either (a) agreeing to be deposed under oath, or (b) not having a sudden attack of amnesia. The former seemed to work out pretty well for Dubya ("I won't testify under oath, and you can't even take notes about what I say.") and Cheney, and the latter has worked for everyone from "Fredo" Gonzalez to Tricky Dick Nixon to Ronald Reagan. If you won't go under oath, or if you just say "I don't recall", no one can pin anything on you!
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
If that's the case - that they paid people off, etc - and they won't step down then heck ya, they need to be impeached.
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
See, in politics - and Senator McCain, will back me up on this, I'm sure, as will former President Bush - you keep your day job while running for higher office, and if you win that higher office, THEN you leave your day job.
That's not always the case. Ask Bob Dole. Reagan wasn't all that busy after leaving the Governor's office years before his 1980 run. I've always thought the notion of "running from cover" was wrong. Bush, Kerry, Obama, Palin...it does not matter, you can't do your job properly and run for President at the same time. Incumbent Presidents are a different story because of the advantage of Air Force One's access to communication and information and a bigger staff.
And she has another job...full time mother. Not to mention a multi-million dollar book to write, moose to hunt, fish to catch, and she's already booked to make appearances in Texas supporting the Republicans.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Anyway, off the topic of republicans who don't know the difference between doing the right thing and pretending to be righteous.....]
thank our lucky stars for the Republicans - the party of family values...
thanks to Dr. Zaius
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Romney is gonna be the man. Palin doesn't have a chance. You have to have an insider. It's Harvard vs Yale. There ya go.
"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".
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Quote:
...and she's already booked to make appearances in Texas supporting the Republicans.
Oh, THAT should help their cause. Will she be helping Rick Perry and John Cornyn, both of whom were soundly booed and heckled at the Fourth of July tea-bagger parties over the weekend?
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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those wacky tea baggers hate everybody...
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Quote:
Originally posted by PirateCat:
Romney is gonna be the man. Palin doesn't have a chance. You have to have an insider. It's Harvard vs Yale. There ya go.
You mean Brigham Young University vs. Wasila School of Cosmetology and Pageant-Walkin'?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by PirateCat:
Romney is gonna be the man. Palin doesn't have a chance. You have to have an insider. It's Harvard vs Yale. There ya go.
You mean Brigham Young University vs. Wasila School of Cosmetology and Pageant-Walkin'?
With those two, Obama become the best of the bad choices again
Can't the Repubs find anyone better
" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "
" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson
Lets party like its 1939
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Quote:
Originally posted by PirateCat:
Romney is gonna be the man.
There's one little problem with that assessment.
Like, the fact that his entire bankroll comes from proponents and supporters of dehumanizing and abusing youth and teens, many of which are now old enough to vote, that is, those that are still alive.
http://teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/tribute1.html
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20List%20of%20Names%20-names%20omit
ted.htm
Add in the suicides, and the programs TAU doesn't track and it's a VERY long list of casualties.
And this is where Romney's MONEY comes from, mind you.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/121088.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2003/jun/29/schools.uk1
Or did - till we functionally OBLITERATED their infrastructure over the past couple years.
And now they're dropping like flies, Pathway, Tranquility, Spring Creek, all gone - and some of the victims chose to side with us instead of going home* which is one reason WHY I am so busy.
No, Romney isn't EVER going to be a viable candidate, cause every time someone tries to front him as one, we'll be there, around every corner, in every shadow, dogging him like conscience he was apparently born without.
The man is a freakin monster, and to use a word I am very sparing with, downright evil.
*Really, would YOU want to go back to a "family" that mortgaged their own home into default to hire out a kidnapping and put you into an abusive concentration camp against your will ?
So there's also a legal battle ongoing over emancipation, whether a parent who so desperately wanted RID of their "goddamn troublemaker" has any right to demand their "property" back under the circumstances - and a court which has not only the law to interpret, but the political consequences of either condoning this behavior, by handing the child back AND provoking the ire of the folks who handed the TX authorities their ass over the YFZ raid, or setting a damn scary (to them) precedent that acknowledges that in some circumstances minors MIGHT be better equipped to make their own life decisions than their parents - and make no mistake, the latter scares the everliving crap out of the established order, cause once you admit that minors are Human Beings, are Persons, Citizens...
Then you no longer get to treat them as inferiors.
Currently it's an endless round of buck passing whilst we actually take care of em and legally stand em off, which is a damn headache when you're forced to play by rules the other side, being them that make and interpret those rules, doesn't feel bound by.
And every single survivor is one more reason Romney is never, EVER going to be a viable candidate.
-F
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Once again Romney's religon is an issue. Why? Obama's muslim religon shouldn't have been an issue. Remember how offended the libs were when you used Barrack as his name. But now when he butt kisses rag heads oh boy Barrack comes rolling off the tongue. How's the antiwar canidate doing looks like there realing heating it up in Afghanastan. Soon this will be Obama's War.
"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".
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You are known by the quality of your enemies....considering all the various folks that hav elined up for a cheap shot at Palin;I'd say she is good people.
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RE Romney-I never thought much of the guy.The sole rasoem=n for voting for him would be "best of a series of bad choices"....
When I was a Ma. resident;he blocked full CH180 reform(Ma. gun law) by not allowing the State Police to assume control of the law;leaving licens issuance "subject to the interprtation of the issuing authority-Chiefs of Police.This turned an already complicated,politicized 4 tiered system into a competely subjective issuance criteria-where a resident of one municipality would be denied ;even if he was "cleaner" than someone who got licensed one town over.
Than he had the balls to hold a press conference with Rosenthal and sugarmen from the Brady Bunch;on how he "stood up to the NRA".
On th ecampaign trail,he suddenly became a "life memeber of the NRA"(he purchased the memebership the precedigng july)
He was not the worse governor we ever had,but way to much of a RINO for my preference.Not a bad guy;but very hard to lock him down to his center of belief.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Also, it's being reported that he paid the woman $25,000 in "severance" after the screwing stopped and the affair ended. Sources are saying this may be a felony violation of campaign funding laws.
Oh...what's she running for?
donttalkbackjustdrivethecarshutyourmouthiknowwhatyouaredontsaynothinkeepyourhandsonthewheeldontturnaroundthisisforreal
Still...what would Rorschach do?
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"You are known by the quality of your enemies....considering all the various folks that hav elined up for a cheap shot at Palin;I'd say she is good people."
Unless of course the shots they are taking aren't cheap - but factual and valid. In which case, YOU would be known by the quality of the people YOU support. And it's not a good reflection on you, I might add ... (along with your typing, spelling and grammar, which make you seem like exactly like the ignorant redneck hick that is reported to be Palin's exact source of support).
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Once again Romney's religon is an issue.
Never was to me, in fact...
Were he not a total friggin monster, his beliefs would be a plus in my viewpoint.
See, although I dislike all Christian theology pretty intensely, I happen to dislike Mormons less for all that since as a general rule they treat their kids a hell of a lot better than most of mainstream society - which given where Romneys bankroll comes from, causes them to turn on him the quickest once that fact is exposed.
Also happens to be a factor in why I went berserk over the FLDS/El Dorado incident, which in combination with the Gardasil fiasco happens to be a millstone we'll be hanging around that ratbastard Gov Perry's neck FOREVER.
It's real simple, so much that even a politician can understand it.
You hurt kids - we hurt YOU.
And right where it counts too, political funding and support, media access, anything and everything to send your political career into the death spiral, where it freakin belongs.
http://www.protect.org/
-F
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Quote:
Originally posted by gripper:
You are known by the quality of your enemies....considering all the various folks that hav elined up for a cheap shot at Palin;I'd say she is good people.
'Course, I can say the exact same thing for Obama, ya know...
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
along with your typing, spelling and grammar, which make you seem like exactly like the ignorant redneck hick that is reported to be Palin's exact source of support.
[ sarcasm ]Thanks for that, Rue. Good to see you come out of hiding with another substantive missive. Your fact based, non-generalizing, and ad hominem free posts are surely missed around these parts. [ /sarcasm]
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
...along with your typing, spelling and grammar...
Thats why liberals hate Palin.
They can't fight her on the issues, so they fight her on how she talks, how she dresses, what her family is doing, etc...all the things that would not matter if she was a liberal.
You could say something brillent and world changing...but if its a conservative idea, then you'd better spell it right and use the correct grammer.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Thats why liberals hate Palin.
That's exactly like saying "Conservatives hate Obama because he's college-educated and can speak in whole sentences. That's the ONLY thing they can fight him on - that he actually knows how to speak English."
Quote:
They can't fight her on the issues, so they fight her on how she talks, how she dresses, what her family is doing, etc...all the things that would not matter if she was a liberal.
Which issues? What "issues" is it that she wants to discuss? The "issue" that the "mainstream media" is beating up on her, and she needs to get away from them and get her kids out of their sight - and so she goes off to her little fortress of solitude to go fishing... AND INVITES THE ENTIRE FUCKING MEDIA ALONG! Is THAT the kind of issue she wants to talk about?
Quote:
You could say something brillent and world changing...but if its a conservative idea, then you'd better spell it right and use the correct grammer.
I'd be inclined to think you're just joking here, but your past record indicates otherwise...
Besides, you've got a contradiction there: You say that you could say something "brillent" and world-changing, "but if it's a conservative idea..." That's contradictory; you CAN'T say something brilliant and world-changing AND have it be a conservative idea.
Oh, and by the way, BigDamnKnob-Buddy has something to say about your "that's why liberals hate Palin" claim:
Quote:
[sarcasm]Thanks for that. Good to see you come out of hiding with another substantive missive. Your fact based, non-generalizing, and ad hominem free posts are surely missed around these parts.[/sarcasm]
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
...you CAN'T say something brilliant and world-changing AND have it be a conservative idea.
Conservative Idea:
"It is no coincidence that our present troubles parallel and are proportionate to the intervention and intrusion in our lives that result from unnecessary and excessive growth of government. It is time for us to realize that we're too great a nation to limit ourselves to small dreams. We're not, as some would have us believe, doomed to an inevitable decline. I do not believe in a fate that will fall on us no matter what we do. I do believe in a fate that will fall on us if we do nothing. So, with all the creative energy at our command, let us begin an era of national renewal. Let us renew our determination, our courage, and our strength. And let us renew our faith and our hope.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look. You can see heroes every day going in and out of factory gates. Others, a handful in number, produce enough food to feed all of us and then the world beyond. You meet heroes across a counter, and they're on both sides of that counter. There are entrepreneurs with faith in themselves and faith in an idea who create new jobs, new wealth and opportunity. They're individuals and families whose taxes support the government and whose voluntary gifts support church, charity, culture, art, and education. Their patriotism is quiet, but deep. Their values sustain our national life."
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Was there supposed to be something new or brilliant in that mindless doublespeak?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Was there supposed to be something new or brilliant in that mindless doublespeak?
We were in a period of decline, people were really demoralized. He lifted their spirits and gave them the economic tools to create the longest period of sustained growth in American history and along the way he kicked a little Soviet and terrorist ass.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Was there supposed to be something new or brilliant in that mindless doublespeak?
We were in a period of decline, people were really demoralized. He lifted their spirits and gave them the economic tools to create the longest period of sustained growth in American history and along the way he kicked a little Soviet and terrorist ass.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
So again I have to ask: Was there something brilliant in that drivel? Was there some revolutionary new thought, some new idea that the world had never heard before? Was there some value inherent in that speech that was purely conservative, that no liberal or progressive could possibly utter or believe?
I could as easily say that it's a core liberal value that puppies are cute and children are special. There - you can never say anything like that, because we liberals now own it!
As for your claims of what Reagan "accomplished" - Cites? Anything to back that up with any hard numbers or evidence?
How long did his alleged economic turnaround take? 3 days? 3 weeks? 3 months? 3 years? More? I know unemployment was still at 9.5% in July of 1983, well over 2.5 years into his first term. Obviously, you were willing to give him far longer to "turn the economy around" than you're willing to give a Democrat in the same position...
How did he supposedly turn our economy around, anyway? I mean, other than by spending metric tonnes of American dollars? By borrowing untold amounts of money from the future, by more than doubling our national debt, by spending more than every President who had come before him, combined. And while you trumpet this "miracle" of economic brilliance under Reagan, you seem less than enthralled with Obama's plan, no matter how similar it may be...
What Soviet ass did we kick? Please don't say "Afghanistan", because that would be not just naive of you, but aggressively ignorant. You'd have to actively TRY to be stupid to believe that. The "Soviet ass" that "we" kicked in Afghanistan was actually kicked by people like Osama bin Laden - a terrorist whom Reagan called a "freedom fighter".
What "terrorist ass" did we kick? Are you talking about Grenada? I *know* you aren't talking about Beirut, where Reagan got 281 U.S. Marines killed with his outright stupidity.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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From Ronald Reagan's first inaugural address:
Quote:
It is no coincidence that our present troubles parallel and are proportionate to the intervention and intrusion in our lives that result from unnecessary and excessive growth of government.
No coincidence? There was also no evidence to suppport this claim. It's one of those truisms - it SOUNDS good, so it must be true. Rarely is that the case, however...
Quote:
It is time for us to realize that we're too great a nation to limit ourselves to small dreams. We're not, as some would have us believe, doomed to an inevitable decline.
Again, flowery language without the merest scintilla of substance. Can you imagine the outrage on the right if someone with a name like Barack Obama were to utter such a thing today?
Quote:
I do not believe in a fate that will fall on us no matter what we do. I do believe in a fate that will fall on us if we do nothing. So, with all the creative energy at our command, let us begin an era of national renewal.
So in other words, it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you do SOMETHING! Unless, of course, your name is Jimmy Carter - then it only matters what you do, because whatever you do is wrong, based only on who you are. What is an "era of national renewal", anyway? That sounds like New-Deal-style liberalism to me! Reagan was a socialist!
Quote:
Let us renew our determination, our courage, and our strength. And let us renew our faith and our hope.
Oh, NOES! He used the "hope" word! And after extolling us to do something, anything, now he says all we need to "do" is renew our faith? That sounds an awful lot like doing nothing. Try this next time there's a tornado bearing down on your house: Pray. Don't run, don't go inside, don't seek shelter, just pray. Renew your faith, and see how that works out for ya. Be sure to try it with a hurricane, too. What's the worst that could happen?
Quote:
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look. You can see heroes every day going in and out of factory gates.
Yes, and most of them were union members, so you sold their jobs to the highest overseas bidder, shut down the factories, and told them to fuck off for their next meal.
Quote:
Others, a handful in number, produce enough food to feed all of us and then the world beyond.
But not for long. Before his second term was over, Reagan would have overseen the dismantling of the family farm in favor of giant corporate farm-factories. But I'm sure he admired their heroism in fighting for a doomed idea that he himself was determined to crush.
Quote:
You meet heroes across a counter, and they're on both sides of that counter. There are entrepreneurs with faith in themselves and faith in an idea who create new jobs, new wealth and opportunity. They're individuals and families whose taxes support the government and whose voluntary gifts support church, charity, culture, art, and education. Their patriotism is quiet, but deep. Their values sustain our national life.
And apparently they're the reason we have to give corporations more welfare and bailouts, and fuck the little people, because while Republicans love to claim that the little people are the real heroes in America, they've never once actually stood up for those people. Instead, they consistently and constantly stand in the way of the little guy, and firmly on the side of Big Business. Because, y'know, there's nothing more American than an entrepenuer with a dream - unless it's a corporation with a dream of crushing that small business!
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Goofed!! See below
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Because, y'know, there's nothing more American than an entrepenuer with a dream - unless it's a corporation with a dream of crushing that small business!
*********************************************
"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Oh, and by the way, BigDamnKnob-Buddy...
As flattering as you are no doubt trying to be, keep your eyes on your own "knob" next time you are at the urinals.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
From Ronald Reagan's first inaugural address:Quote:
It is no coincidence that our present troubles parallel and are proportionate to the intervention and intrusion in our lives that result from unnecessary and excessive growth of government.
No coincidence? There was also no evidence to suppport this claim. It's one of those truisms - it SOUNDS good, so it must be true. Rarely is that the case, however...
Our entire nation is founded upon the notion that the individual should be the senior partner in the social contract.
Quote:Quote:
It is time for us to realize that we're too great a nation to limit ourselves to small dreams. We're not, as some would have us believe, doomed to an inevitable decline.
Again, flowery language without the merest scintilla of substance. Can you imagine the outrage on the right if someone with a name like Barack Obama were to utter such a thing today?
First of all, if Obama said it and meant it there would be outrage...from the liberals. Liberals believe in the inevitable decline of America...in fact they are invested in it.
Unfortunately they have convinced many Republicans of this "inevitable decline" argument. Ultimately its the American people's opinion that matters and most Americans are returning, as they often do in troubled times to our nation's conservative roots.
Quote:Quote:
I do not believe in a fate that will fall on us no matter what we do. I do believe in a fate that will fall on us if we do nothing. So, with all the creative energy at our command, let us begin an era of national renewal.
So in other words, it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you do SOMETHING! Unless, of course, your name is Jimmy Carter - then it only matters what you do, because whatever you do is wrong, based only on who you are. What is an "era of national renewal", anyway? That sounds like New-Deal-style liberalism to me! Reagan was a socialist!
He's not asking for govt to do something. He's advocating removing as much of govt from the picture thus allowing the natural creative energy and industry of the American people to move and this "era of national renewal" his a call to act.
Quote:Quote:
Let us renew our determination, our courage, and our strength. And let us renew our faith and our hope.
Oh, NOES! He used the "hope" word! And after extolling us to do something, anything, now he says all we need to "do" is renew our faith? That sounds an awful lot like doing nothing. Try this next time there's a tornado bearing down on your house: Pray. Don't run, don't go inside, don't seek shelter, just pray. Renew your faith, and see how that works out for ya. Be sure to try it with a hurricane, too. What's the worst that could happen?
Faith, hope, courage, strength, and determination...these are the things that will allow you to do more then merely survive a tornado. Lose everything save these and you'll be ok, thats his message.
Imagine a life of safety and security...without faith, hope, courage, strength, or determination. Huddling in your shelter while the tornado comes and takes it all...you might as well be dead.
Quote:Quote:
We have every right to dream heroic dreams.
I'm pretty sure he means dream of "Hero" aka me...
Quote:
Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look. You can see heroes every day going in and out of factory gates.
Yes, and most of them were union members, so you sold their jobs to the highest overseas bidder, shut down the factories, and told them to fuck off for their next meal.
Actually, most are not. Union membership as a percentage of the manufacturing pool has been in rapid decline for decades. Also union businesses were far more likely to fail.
We've come a long way from the company store and kids working in mines. Unions are important, but not at the expens
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