More about sex and Inara
POSTED BY: mal4prez
UPDATED: Saturday, August 1, 2009 19:12
VIEWED: 20411
PAGE 4 of 11
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but so long as the partners in question don't see their relationship as diminished, does it really matter?
No, but if one of the persons within the relationship does see it that way, can he change that? You are carving up and modifying Mal's soul if you change his straightforward, uncomplicated and possessive way of being in love. A beautiful aspect of his soul, no less.
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French courtesans often had a husband and children on the side while servicing their patrons. Their prostitution was a necessary source of income, and the family of the courtesan had to be understanding, tolerant, and flexible in order to make the situation work.
Inara isn't doing it to suppport a family, it's more voluntary in her situation, like a lifestyle choice. If it was necessary though, to feed starving children or whatever, perhaps we should expect Mal to assent to it - but never to be happy about it. People can be too enlightened.
Heads should roll
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Why does it have to change Mal's perspective at all?
I'm sure plenty of couples disapprove of the occupation of their partner, and there may even be hurt feelings about it, but that doesn't necessarily prevent them from staying together. Or make them care about the other any less.
If Inara were to stay on Serenity I assume she would want to have a job where she could contribute to Serenity's income, because they aren't exactly a rich bunch. This would likely be in the form of Inara insisting on continuing to pay rent. If Inara has a job, and stays on Serenity, I would assume she is doing whatever job that might be to help support the crew/her family.
As such, if she stays on Serenity and begins a relationship, but she still is a companion, I would guess the money she makes as a companion would contribute to the income of the crew. And therefore, she would continue practicing as a companion to support her family.
Unless we decide to make Inara completely out of character, and she keeps all of her money selfishly to herself.
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I would write it that Inara has some money saved up, say 6 months rent or something - and she insists on paying it even though Mal tries to stop her. But basically there is long enough for another career path to present itself.
This is me writing to make things smooth and agreeable and happy, Joss no doubt had other happenstances in mind.
"Why does it have to change Mal's perspective at all?"
I don't think we can, or should. But how much does it poison the relationship if Inara keeps companioning? I don't think Mal could take it, and consequently I don't think Inara could do it.
Heads should roll
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Originally posted by kpo:Quote:
And you can't tell me that a military job doesn't cut into a relationship the same way
No, that's exactly what I'm arguing. Absence, even death doesn't taint or diminish the love in a relationship, whereas in some people's eyes removing monogamy from it does.
For those who can deal with it, it doesn't. For those who can't, it certainly does. It's, as you say, "some people's eyes", that make all the difference. Individual circumstances.
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But neither does Inara's job break monogamy in all the important ways, nor does a a bit of bending of the rules ruin the whole concept or committment and love.
It doesn't ruin it, but it does diminish and taint it, in some people's eyes - even if less so than straightforward adultery, and perhaps more so than ordinary prostitution (where the intimacy may be just on a physical level).
But the intimacy is just on a physical level. Inara hardly bares her soul to her clients.
No one is asking Mal to grin and bear it if he can't, but you seem to be arguing against him even trying to consider it, because "some people" may see things a certain way.
What about the way Inara feeling forced to give up her job would taint and diminish their love? Just as destructive.
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he can work on wrapping his head around what Inara's work really is and tolerating her doing it.
He could learn to respect the companion profession but still not be happy for his partner to be one, that's not the same.
I doubt Inara is extremely happy about Mal's profession, either, you know?
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You know, Companions might have families next to their job, so that one doesn't count.
It depends on the typical Alliance planet man I guess. Maybe the majority wouldn't mind at all a partner being a practicing companion - is that a 'higher' mindset in your view?
It's not about "higher mindsets", I'm not trying to set up universal rules and standards. It's about individual people dealing with extraordinary circumstances in a way that breaches "normal" expectations. I doubt it'd be a rule in the Core, either.
The thing is, Mal and Inara are both people with extraordinary jobs and lives, and in order to be a couple and share the love they have for each other, they have to accept each other, problematic as they both may be. If Inara wants to be with Mal, she has to deal with his dangerous jobs, his occasional awful temper, the general instability and poverty of his life. If Mal wants to be with Inara, he has to deal with her sarcasm, her differing political background and her job. They are both proud people who don't respond well to pressure, so demanding change from either one of them would probably not end well. It's a much less damaging strategy for both of them to try and change themselves and accept each other, than it is to insist on their own way.
And I think they are both smart enough to know that.
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Quote:I may be just repeating what Bytemite and AR said, but the "some people's eyes" is key here. In some people's eyes, military is indeed a deal breaker. My nephew decided to join the army last year and his fiance didn't go for that. They broke up. OK, there was more to it, but that's what did them in. And yet, plenty of military spouses are fine with their lives. It all depends on the people involved.
Originally posted by kpo:
No, that's exactly what I'm arguing. Absence, even death doesn't taint or diminish the love in a relationship, whereas in some people's eyes removing monogamy from it does.
So the issue here isn't in "some people's" eyes, it's in Mal's and Inara's eyes. The hard thing is to sort these characters out without tainting them with our own biases. It's a very hard thing. Impossible, probably. But I'm guessing that if we start saying they'll do *this* or *that* because it's the obvious thing that most people would do, we're probably straying from canon and into our own inclinations and beliefs.
So, based on canon, do we think Mal could accept Inara and her job? Do we think he would at least make the effort, even if he failed in the end? Is it the sex that hangs him up, or the emotional intimacy, or something else?
(BTW I forgot to say - Bytemite, excellent fics you referenced. I especially liked the first.)
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Originally, I was only going to post the first one, because I think it's the best too.
But I realized that just as much as making unbelievable compromises for the sake of writing a ship can lobotomize a character, sometimes characters can be lobotomized by getting their way, too. Inara continuing on blissfully unaware of, unconcerned about, or unsympathetic to Mal's hurt over her profession is as out of character as Inara tossing away her lifestyle because it doesn't mean anything to her or she secretly doesn't like it.
And the second one I think shows an Inara who wants her life and is entirely justified in not wanting to give it up, but who is torn because she does care about Mal and knows how miserable it makes him. The second story is a good example of Inara not being lobotomized, just like the first story is a good example of Mal not being lobotomized.
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So, based on canon, do we think Mal could accept Inara and her job? Do we think he would at least make the effort, even if he failed in the end? Is it the sex that hangs him up, or the emotional intimacy, or something else?
AR and I both like to use this point, but in HoG, Mal was ABOUT to accept Inara, complete with profession, before she pushed him away again.
Mal's been noted to have intimacy issues. It was by Wash, and Wash was pretty mad at him, but I think that does ring true a bit. If Inara hadn't been a companion, but still elegant and classy, and if, in the beginning, she had been just as scintillating, and less discouraging, would Mal have gone for her then? I don't think so.
I think, after the war he probably holds himself back and puts up walls that so far only his crew had gotten through. I think he would have distrusted the way she seemed attracted to him, much like I think he'd distrust the attraction if she ever showed him any interest in the canon universe.
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So the issue here isn't in "some people's" eyes, it's in Mal's and Inara's eyes.
When I said 'in some people's eyes', I meant Mal's. I think that's who he is; it just comes with his old fashioned nobility and chivalry, and his simple, earthy nature.
A military career undoubtedly can put an external strain on a relationship, but it doesn't cut to the heart of the relationship itself like sex with other people, and how that would shatter the sense of personal, private intimacy that a monogamistic person feels. A military career demands sacrifice from the partner but leaves love intact, a companion career for a monogamistic partner means a tainting/tarnishing of the love he feels. But I better stop hammering away on this issue, I won't fight the whole military comparison anymore.
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do we think Mal could accept Inara and her job? Do we think he would at least make the effort, even if he failed in the end? Is it the sex that hangs him up, or the emotional intimacy, or something else?
You're hinting at male pride, or something...? For sure, that's likely to be a factor, especially with Jayne on board the ship, poor Mal. But strip all that away and it would still hurt him, Inara companioning with other men. What do you mean make the effort? That second fic is perhaps the best case scenario in terms of Mal being a gentleman about things, but it's only going to end in bitter regret - since the relationship is doomed anyway Inara is best just to end it beforehand. Mal being a gentleman and Inara letting him means they both get poisoned with bitterness, resentment, regret.
I think the best Mal can do is acknowledge the sacrifice, if Inara is prepared to make it. Undoubtedly it's Mal's hang up, and Inara's sacrifice. But it's not an unreasonable hang up, Mal doesn't need to 'grow' or be enlightened in any way, and we shouldn't want to lobotomise him or change him into a more modern and 'open-minded' alliance planet guy.
AR,
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What about the way Inara feeling forced to give up her job would taint and diminish their love? Just as destructive.
Fair point, there is opportunity for resentment there - it depends on how Mal acts, whether he appreciates the sacrifice; and circumstance - whether Inara is able to find another calling in life that will compensate her lost one. I think if I were to write a fic on this I would consider one set at some point in the future where Mal and the firefly crew have enjoyed good times financially and it becomes time to start thinking about settling down into a more peaceful and stable way of life. Mal would be reluctant to give up his life on Serenity but he realises he now probably owes it to Inara and the kids, after she made the sacrifice before.
Heads should roll
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AR and I both like to use this point, but in HoG, Mal was ABOUT to accept Inara, complete with profession,
Are you sure? I thought he was just being 'truthsome' and putting it all out in the open.
Heads should roll
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The way it was acted, Inara seems to interrupt Mal. I do think the suggestion Joss makes in his directing is that Mal was about to say more. What else would he have to be truthsome about but his feelings, considering the subject of their conversation? I think at that point he was about to make a commitment to be with her despite her profession.
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