does Joss have a thing about knives?

POSTED BY: NewOldBrownCoat
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 16:26
VIEWED: 4492
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NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, June 7, 2009 6:45 PM

or is that a Captain Obvious question?
I was doing Captain Awesome's survey when I realized that.
I was discussing a conversion attempt of mine that failed. The guy I was working on watched part of the Pilot. When he got to the scene where Jayne was gonna interrogate Dobson, he turned off. Then he tried to watch the BDM, and only got as far as the scene with the Operative. Thinking it over, there's knife or sword stuff in a lot of episodes-- Safe, Shindig, Ariel, War Stories, The Train Job.
So that's the question; is fear of knives a button Joss likes to push? Are they a particular personal either phobia or fetish of his? Is there a lot of knoife stuff in Buffy, Angel, or Dollhouse? ( Stakes don't count, exactly. or Do they?)

BYTEMITE

Sunday, June 7, 2009 8:36 PM

I dunno, never really thought of it like that. I always just figured, hey, it's a bunch of crooks on a space ship. If they don't have a gun on them then they're probably going to have a knife. Especially Jayne.

And when it comes to small arms, they seem pretty well equipped. Like in War Stories, remember all those guns and grenades? They seem better outfitted than some street gangs I've seen.

GRIPPER

Sunday, June 7, 2009 11:38 PM

PLus,don't forget the premise that the crew actually does some legitimate salvage/transportation work besides the odd payroll heist-cargo work often requires the use of at least SOME utility knives/cutting implements.
Any here ever see a commercial fishermean/merchant seam man WITHOUT a multi-tool/working knife?

AURAPTOR

Monday, June 8, 2009 12:39 AM

I just think he down plays guns, and uses knives/swords for a more theatrical effect ?

Buffy and Angel were very non gun themed,if you recall.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

KWICKO

Monday, June 8, 2009 12:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I just think he down plays guns, and uses knives/swords for a more theatrical effect ?

Buffy and Angel were very non gun themed,if you recall.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

You nailed it.

If anything, Joss seems predominantly "anti-gun" - at least in Buffy and Angel. Firefly has guns, but if you notice, it's somewhat of a "bigger hammer" kind of thing. Jayne ALWAYS wants to go to the gun first, and Mal is pretty quick to use his gun instead of his head, too. Zoe will rely on a gun, but only as a last resort, it seems. So even when Joss DOES feature guns, it's in a kind of "this isn't an all-powerful tool, and people who think it is tend to be buffoons" way.

Of course, on the DARKER side of things, killing with a knife is just way more personal, so there might be something in that, too, as far as Joss and the story-telling aspect go.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

GWEK

Monday, June 8, 2009 1:20 AM

In a dramatic sense, knives/swords/stakes are more "personal" than guns. They're also less likely to give a sure kill.

If you threaten someone with a gun, you're probably threatening to kill or seriously cripple them. It's dynamic, but it's also one-shot. If you're threatening to torture with a knife, the implication, I think, is that you're looking at something more... long-term--or perhaps more disfiguring (either of which could be scarier).

In terms of fights, Joss and his gang often write guns as fight ENDERS, which means you have to start somewhere lower. Also remember that sometimes they re-use fights (for example, the final battle in THE TRAIN JOB is recycled from an episode of ANGEL).

As for the use of the sword in FIREFLY, specifically, I think it's often symbolic of social mores. Atherton, for example, has a "gentleman's" weapon, while the Operative, a modern samurai of sorts, mirrors their armament.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Monday, June 8, 2009 4:59 AM

I'm feeling squeamish hearing Joss is anti-gun.
In Pilot there was a bunch with Patience. Then of course pluggin a Fed-in-the-Head.
So adamant about establishing Mal as a killer, when the 2nd pilot comes out (TTJ), Joss has Crow getting FODded. Also plenty of gunplay in the train, messing up the plan.
Safe has Book getting hit.

Seems Joss is welcome to useify all weapons, futuristic or not (where be the futurey knives?)

ANOTHERSKY

Monday, June 8, 2009 6:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Then of course pluggin a Fed-in-the-Head.

Wow that was dark.

You gave me the picture of a popular new Browncoat game:

Whack-A-Fed

and now I can't stop laughing...in the most horrified way of course.

Yes they were rather set on making Mal a very not-fuzzy guy at first. took me a while to re-warm up to him.

As for knives, I haven't seen dollhouse, but apparently one of the psychopathic renegade characters loves em, and has disfigured several mains with them. Part of the reason I ain't seen it.

Futuristic knives? Where's that get fun? Guess you could have hot ones and cold ones...Jayne might enjoy making pain scarier. Me I'll stop right now thanks.

For anyone interested, there's a new book out called The (Unofficial) Psychology of Joss Whedon by Leah Wilson Davidson. Haven't read it, but it covers buffy, angel and firefly, among other bits and pieces. Back blurb claims he has "issues". What else did we NOT know?

But SHE might know if he has a thing with knives. Unofficially, of course.

--
Going for a ride.

MATTYJ

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 2:51 AM

Quote:
the psychopathic renegade

Yeah, I'm going to have to say, you need to see it. I didn't see it coming, finding out who that "psychopathic renegade" was, it was a "oh s..." moment for sure.

watch it, it's not as good as Firefly, but it is worth watching.

MJ

KWICKO

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 3:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I'm feeling squeamish hearing Joss is anti-gun.
In Pilot there was a bunch with Patience. Then of course pluggin a Fed-in-the-Head.
So adamant about establishing Mal as a killer, when the 2nd pilot comes out (TTJ), Joss has Crow getting FODded. Also plenty of gunplay in the train, messing up the plan.
Safe has Book getting hit.

Seems Joss is welcome to useify all weapons, futuristic or not (where be the futurey knives?)

I took the guns in Firefly as more of an homage to its western themes. Still, the gunplay in the show often doesn't end as intended, and often ends badly.

Then there's seven seasons of Buffy and five of Angel, in which guns were NEVER portrayed in anything but a negative light that I can remember. In fact, in one scene, Buffy takes a gun away from a bad guy, tosses it aside before kicking his ass the good old-fashioned Buffy way, and tells him when she takes his gun away, "These NEVER work."

And Faith has a special fondness for "futurey" knives, or at least some rather exotic ones. She likes crossbows and longbows, too. And then there's a scythe that gets used against Nathan Fillion's character, Caleb...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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